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Papa Phil: Control is coming to GamePass

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Papa Phil: Control is coming to GamePass

pokoko said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Sorry if I don’t trust users on a vidya game forum who are relentlessly negative and skeptical of every single thing Xbox over the Xboss or more importantly actual developers who have released their games on GamePass 😆

Imagine thinking that more people playing a game won’t lead to more exposure and word of mouth and more sales just because that might be a positive for Xbox.

Trying to dismiss any dissenting opinion as an attack on Xbox really isn't going to help your argument.  Many people can recognize an ad hominem dodge at this point.  Also, people have every right to question the reliability of information that comes from Phil Spencer or Xbox staff on anything that might make Xbox look good or bad.

As for the actual argument, if it were some kind of universal truth that "Gamepass increases sales" then every game would be on the service and declaring that intention before launch.  As that isn't the case, I think it's obvious that there are a lot of other factors involved.  Exposure, market penetration, and timing relative to release, for example.  What's true for one game might not be true for another.

There is plenty of room for discussion and debate on this topic.  Trying to passive-aggressively shut that down isn't going to work.  

You're reading too much into a simple like worded retort to one specific post that was right above mine



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DonFerrari said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Sorry if I don’t trust users on a vidya game forum who are relentlessly negative and skeptical of every single thing Xbox over the Xboss or more importantly actual developers who have released their games on GamePass 😆

Imagine thinking that more people playing a game won’t lead to more exposure and word of mouth and more sales just because that might be a positive for Xbox.

Yes imagine if people won't forfeit buying a game because they will get it for free, and not only that they will buy even more because they had it for free.

But people do not get it for free, they have to sub to a service to get the game.  If that person want to continue to receive service, they have to continue to sub to the service.  When you have millions of people constantly subbing to a service, it pays for the content.  This is no different then the model for all of these subscription services like Netflix.  Without fully understanding how these service not only make a profit but is able to create their own content that cost millions of dollars, you will always not really get the math and be making statement out of ignorance then any informed opinion.



Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes imagine if people won't forfeit buying a game because they will get it for free, and not only that they will buy even more because they had it for free.

But people do not get it for free, they have to sub to a service to get the game.  If that person want to continue to receive service, they have to continue to sub to the service.  When you have millions of people constantly subbing to a service, it pays for the content.  This is no different then the model for all of these subscription services like Netflix.  Without fully understanding how these service not only make a profit but is able to create their own content that cost millions of dollars, you will always not really get the math and be making statement out of ignorance then any informed opinion.

He doesn't get the idea that someone can subscribe to GamePass, enjoy a game and buy it so that they actually own it. Similar to how you might rent something, enjoy it, and buy it so you own it. Where Spencer and developers who have seen their games sell more as a result of GamePass go into further detail is that games on GamePass get exposure via the MS Store with stuff like the most played list, reviews for games, plus people playing them on Mixer or Twitch, all of which can lead to more sales from people who otherwise would not have known about the game.

It's not a hard concept to grasp, makes perfect logical sense, but because it's Xbox, it's lies and spin and not trustworthy.



I guess the missing piece of information is: How many people actually subscribe to Gamepass. I personally didn't even want it until a recent deal that gave it to Gold users for like $1 a month. Couldn't refuse that.

Is it 5% of XBO owners? 10%? 50%?
There's a ton of games on Gamepass that I'll play but never had any intention of ever buying (and a LARGE number of games I actually did buy that are on the service now. Maybe I wouldn't have purchased many of those). Not only that, I go weeks without playing anything at all, online or otherwise. M$ will still get my money every month even if I don't use the service. They'll be getting $15 a month once the offer runs out ($180 a year) instead of the $60 a year that they were getting from me before.

We're currently torn between "Is Gamepass good for gamers?", "Is Gamepass good for third parties?", and "Is Gamepass good for Microsoft?". I'm one of those that owns almost 500 games on Xbox One WITHOUT Gamepass. They found a way to get more money from me. I still think most gamers don't know the service exists, don't know the value, or simply aren't subscribing.

There's a lot of variables to consider.



Twitter: @d21lewis  --I'll add you if you add me!!

pokoko said:
flashfire926 said:

It's already been stated by analysts that Game Pass actually boosts hard sales, doesn't hurt them.

I don't see how that would apply in this situation.  Perhaps it boosts sales AFTER it appears on Gamepass but I can't see any reason why it would have a positive effect if that information leaks long before it actually hits the service.  There is no way this can be anything but a negative to sales during that gap.  

Regardless, Spencer revealing this ahead of time was a blunder, which I'm going to assume was an honest mistake.  You don't reveal stuff like that without the developer's permission.  He might have literally just taken money from their pockets.

I tend to agree about Gamepass impacting sales.  However, this has gotten the game back in the news.  That certainly does mean some additional sales.  I'd think that is likely outweighed by the sales that now won't happen because people would rather wait for it on GP.  But, maybe I'm not seeing it right.

As for this being a blunder, how do you know that?  It seems possible, but we don't know the terms of their deal.  

Last edited by VAMatt - on 06 December 2019

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VAMatt said:
pokoko said:

I don't see how that would apply in this situation.  Perhaps it boosts sales AFTER it appears on Gamepass but I can't see any reason why it would have a positive effect if that information leaks long before it actually hits the service.  There is no way this can be anything but a negative to sales during that gap.  

Regardless, Spencer revealing this ahead of time was a blunder, which I'm going to assume was an honest mistake.  You don't reveal stuff like that without the developer's permission.  He might have literally just taken money from their pockets.

I tend to agree about Gamepass impacting sales.  However, this has gotten the game back in the news.  That certainly does mean some additional sales.  I'd think that is likely outweighed by the sales that now won't happen because people would rather wait for it on GP.  But, maybe I'm not seeing it right.

As for this being a blunder, how do you know that?  It seems possible, but we don't know the terms of their deal.  

I'm not sure what you mean about it being a blunder or not.  Microsoft and Remedy have both said it was a mistake.  



LudicrousSpeed said:
Sorry if I don’t trust users on a vidya game forum who are relentlessly negative and skeptical of every single thing....

Yes we all know your post history in a particular section o.the fórum, só your post is hilarious



 

ClassicGamingWizzz said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Sorry if I don’t trust users on a vidya game forum who are relentlessly negative and skeptical of every single thing....

Yes we all know your post history in a particular section o.the fórum, só your post is hilarious

Good, humor is what I was going for. If I were in a Sony thread crapping on them and saying I don’t believe what they are saying, what would your response be? Based on that post history you’re referencing, I’m guessing you wouldn’t be surprised or put much stock into a word I was saying. Just seems like a waste of time to tell us he doesn’t believe Spencer. Like, no shit you don’t?



pokoko said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Sorry if I don’t trust users on a vidya game forum who are relentlessly negative and skeptical of every single thing Xbox over the Xboss or more importantly actual developers who have released their games on GamePass 😆

Imagine thinking that more people playing a game won’t lead to more exposure and word of mouth and more sales just because that might be a positive for Xbox.

Trying to dismiss any dissenting opinion as an attack on Xbox really isn't going to help your argument.  Many people can recognize an ad hominem dodge at this point.  Also, people have every right to question the reliability of information that comes from Phil Spencer or Xbox staff on anything that might make Xbox look good or bad.

As for the actual argument, if it were some kind of universal truth that "Gamepass increases sales" then every game would be on the service and declaring that intention before launch.  As that isn't the case, I think it's obvious that there are a lot of other factors involved.  Exposure, market penetration, and timing relative to release, for example.  What's true for one game might not be true for another.

There is plenty of room for discussion and debate on this topic.  Trying to passive-aggressively shut that down isn't going to work.  

Having the product on streaming platforms increase sales so much that every blockbuster movie launches simultaneously on stream and theaters and before that on open TV plus theaters.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

LudicrousSpeed said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:

Yes we all know your post history in a particular section o.the fórum, só your post is hilarious

Good, humor is what I was going for. If I were in a Sony thread crapping on them and saying I don’t believe what they are saying, what would your response be? Based on that post history you’re referencing, I’m guessing you wouldn’t be surprised or put much stock into a word I was saying. Just seems like a waste of time to tell us he doesn’t believe Spencer. Like, no shit you don’t?

You dont need to be a hater to not believe a word that comes out of phil spencer mouth, he is a PR guy, he tells his crowd what they want to listen , the " papa phil spencer saved xbox " type of crowd. I will never understand the jerking off to guys like phill spencer and the amount of attention press gives him everytime he farts a tweet gaming journos make a article sometimes they squeeze and make 2 or 3 with a bunch of nothing. This thread about the fact that he reveal this ( if its real true devs said it is not ) ahead of time was stupid as fuck because its taking money from the devs , people can spin this all they want but there is only negatives to the makers of the game. Or he is dumb or this was a little bit malicious pr , IMO its just proof he needs to shut his mouth more.