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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Papa Phil: Control is coming to GamePass

flashfire926 said:
JRPGfan said:

Reguardless of if its true or not, Remedy must be mad as hell.
This is gonna hurt its sales.

It's already been stated by analysts that Game Pass actually boosts hard sales, doesn't hurt them.

Is that why Gears 5 sales are like historically bad, compaired to the 3rd or 4th game?

Maybe it doesnt hurt that much like a year down the line, but day and date seem to have a negative effect.

(physical and digital sales tanked compaired to the last games, and Phil Spencer used jargon speak to count a digital download on gamepass as a "sale", to claim it sold better than the 4th)

Gamepass makes sense if a game is already selling badly (past its peak of sales) and has ingame micro transactions /dlc they can sell you.
Then getting it into more players hands even if free, can be lucrative.

However claiming it doesnt hurt sales is bullcrap.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 06 December 2019

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LudicrousSpeed said:
flashfire926 said:

It's already been stated by analysts that Game Pass actually boosts hard sales, doesn't hurt them.

Yeah Spencer said it improves game sales too. When a game is on GamePass it gets a lot more exposure on Xbox. It’s on the most played list, it’s talked about on Reddit, it’s played on Mixer and Twitch. 

I can see it selling a lot more when it hits GamePass as streamers and content creators play it. This is especially true for the lesser known titles. Descenders for example, quadrupled in sales thanks to GamePass according to the developers.

Phil counts a download on gamepass, as a sale.
If you instead looked at the store bought (physical and digital) then sales are hurt by it.

But is a sale a sale? disreguard how much it sells for?
How much of gamepass $ goes towards 1 download on gamepass? is it as much as a developer gets if they sell at game in a store?

I think devs get much less from a download on gamepass than a real sale in a store.



JRPGfan said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Yeah Spencer said it improves game sales too. When a game is on GamePass it gets a lot more exposure on Xbox. It’s on the most played list, it’s talked about on Reddit, it’s played on Mixer and Twitch. 

I can see it selling a lot more when it hits GamePass as streamers and content creators play it. This is especially true for the lesser known titles. Descenders for example, quadrupled in sales thanks to GamePass according to the developers.

Phil counts a download on gamepass, as a sale.
If you instead looked at the store bought (physical and digital) then sales are hurt by it.

But is a sale a sale? disreguard how much it sells for?
How much of gamepass $ goes towards 1 download on gamepass? is it as much as a developer gets if they sell at game in a store?

I think devs get much less from a download on gamepass than a real sale in a store.

Not even games gave for free on PS+ is paid by dev on a download basis, they just make the calculation of how much sales they would lose at what profit point and have an agreement of how much Sony will pay to have the game there for a month.

No way MS pay by the number of times the game is tried out. So nope it can't be called a sale, even more when the person doesn't retain ownership of it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

JRPGfan said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Yeah Spencer said it improves game sales too. When a game is on GamePass it gets a lot more exposure on Xbox. It’s on the most played list, it’s talked about on Reddit, it’s played on Mixer and Twitch. 

I can see it selling a lot more when it hits GamePass as streamers and content creators play it. This is especially true for the lesser known titles. Descenders for example, quadrupled in sales thanks to GamePass according to the developers.

Phil counts a download on gamepass, as a sale.
If you instead looked at the store bought (physical and digital) then sales are hurt by it.

But is a sale a sale? disreguard how much it sells for?
How much of gamepass $ goes towards 1 download on gamepass? is it as much as a developer gets if they sell at game in a store?

I think devs get much less from a download on gamepass than a real sale in a store.

What are you talking about? Spencer has given multiple interviews discussing how GamePass has lead to actual sales of games increasing. Not GamePass downloads. 

I don’t doubt that a publisher gets less money from XBLG/GamePass/PS+/PSNow than they do from a physical sale. But that’s not what the business model is about. You’re looking at it from a flawed position, similar to how people used to look at 2 million copies of a game pirated and say “oh that’s 2 million sales gone!”, ignoring the fact that most of those two million people were never going to buy the game. 

The amount they get from these digital services might be less than the physical cut, but it’s still more than nothing. Plus as Microsoft and GamePass developers have pointed out, people playing it on GamePass leads to others actually buying the game that otherwise wouldn’t have.



DonFerrari said:
Zoombael said:

Some Xbox officials, and a foul mouthed developer aren't really reputable sources. Or "analysts".

Will wait for them to show for example how much did Sea of Thieves, Halo or Gears sold before and after showing on gamepass.

All M$ Xbox games are on Game Pass on day one and never leave. There's not going to be a "Before and after" unless they change their policy. Consider them akin to a "Netflix Original" now. Their purpose is to push subscriptions these days.



mZuzek loves Smeags. 😢

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d21lewis said:
DonFerrari said:

Will wait for them to show for example how much did Sea of Thieves, Halo or Gears sold before and after showing on gamepass.

All M$ Xbox games are on Game Pass on day one and never leave. There's not going to be a "Before and after" unless they change their policy. Consider them akin to a "Netflix Original" now. Their purpose is to push subscriptions these days.

Gamepass didn't show up on release of X1. So a lot of the games over there were already released before Gamepass existed.

But so far we didn't had sales number for their games since they done that spin for Halo 5 release mixing the sales of the bundled console with the SW to claim it had the highest revenue ever for a Halo game.

So sorry if I don't trust Phill Spencer saying game pass make games sell better. I very much doubt a Halo Infinite launching without gamepass would sell less SW than with it launching day one on gamepass. The only way that happens is when they count gamepass plays "as sales".

Not many people that "try" the full game "for free" would pay full price to replay it or keep wrapped on the closet.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Sorry if I don’t trust users on a vidya game forum who are relentlessly negative and skeptical of every single thing Xbox over the Xboss or more importantly actual developers who have released their games on GamePass 😆

Imagine thinking that more people playing a game won’t lead to more exposure and word of mouth and more sales just because that might be a positive for Xbox.



LudicrousSpeed said:
Sorry if I don’t trust users on a vidya game forum who are relentlessly negative and skeptical of every single thing Xbox over the Xboss or more importantly actual developers who have released their games on GamePass 😆

Imagine thinking that more people playing a game won’t lead to more exposure and word of mouth and more sales just because that might be a positive for Xbox.

Yes imagine if people won't forfeit buying a game because they will get it for free, and not only that they will buy even more because they had it for free.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Sorry if I don’t trust users on a vidya game forum who are relentlessly negative and skeptical of every single thing Xbox over the Xboss or more importantly actual developers who have released their games on GamePass 😆

Imagine thinking that more people playing a game won’t lead to more exposure and word of mouth and more sales just because that might be a positive for Xbox.

Yes imagine if people won't forfeit buying a game because they will get it for free, and not only that they will buy even more because they had it for free.

Wait, you actually think what’s being discussed is people play the game on GamePass and then go buy multiple copies? 😆😆😆



LudicrousSpeed said:
Sorry if I don’t trust users on a vidya game forum who are relentlessly negative and skeptical of every single thing Xbox over the Xboss or more importantly actual developers who have released their games on GamePass 😆

Imagine thinking that more people playing a game won’t lead to more exposure and word of mouth and more sales just because that might be a positive for Xbox.

Trying to dismiss any dissenting opinion as an attack on Xbox really isn't going to help your argument.  Many people can recognize an ad hominem dodge at this point.  Also, people have every right to question the reliability of information that comes from Phil Spencer or Xbox staff on anything that might make Xbox look good or bad.

As for the actual argument, if it were some kind of universal truth that "Gamepass increases sales" then every game would be on the service and declaring that intention before launch.  As that isn't the case, I think it's obvious that there are a lot of other factors involved.  Exposure, market penetration, and timing relative to release, for example.  What's true for one game might not be true for another.

There is plenty of room for discussion and debate on this topic.  Trying to passive-aggressively shut that down isn't going to work.