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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Expectations don't matter

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Hiku said:

Well, that's not really a possibility in the scenario I described, because I'm talking about features they would always expect because they consider them essential.

I would always expect a training mode to be included in a fighting game. But a casual player who just wants to check out the story of Mortal Kombat 11 may not care about that feature, and have no expectations about it.

You're completely in control of your expectations so that is always a possibility. I'm sure you would agree that a game being good is essential, but you don't actually expect every game to be good for one reason or another. Regardless, the point was to show that the main issue is the lack of a feature they wanted.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

Expectations definitely matter.  When Super Mario Bros 3 was first released about 30 years ago it was widely regarded as the best game ever made.  If it were released for the first time in today's market, it would probably have a cult indie following and that's it.  The difference between then and now is the expectation.  People are used to different types of games.  We expect different things.  Likewise if The Last of Us were released 30 years ago some would have liked it, but most would have considered it garbage.  The difference really is in the expectation.

The key difference is in our standards. Expectation means what you believe will happen, it doesn't mean what the final product actually is. Super Mario Bros. 3 was widely regarded not because people thought it would be great, but because it was great for it's time.



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Psychology, ever heard of it? Expectations influence everything, if you want it or not. The issue is that you can't influence your expectations a lot. They're built by prior experiences and perception. You can try to temper them but you won't ever have them completely under control. The only people who can control your expectations are the ones in control of the product. If a person gets too high or low expectations it's entirely on the shoulders of marketing. There are of course exceptions if the expectations are based on outdated or wrong information, or are built on something that's just not realistically possible.

If I have the wrong expectations of a game and I did my due diligence in gathering information you can be damn straight that I'm gonna blame that on whoever was in control of marketing.



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Lonely_Dolphin said:
Hiku said:

Well, that's not really a possibility in the scenario I described, because I'm talking about features they would always expect because they consider them essential.

I would always expect a training mode to be included in a fighting game. But a casual player who just wants to check out the story of Mortal Kombat 11 may not care about that feature, and have no expectations about it.

You're completely in control of your expectations so that is always a possibility. I'm sure you would agree that a game being good is essential, but you don't actually expect every game to be good for one reason or another. Regardless, the point was to show that the main issue is the lack of a feature they wanted.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

Expectations definitely matter.  When Super Mario Bros 3 was first released about 30 years ago it was widely regarded as the best game ever made.  If it were released for the first time in today's market, it would probably have a cult indie following and that's it.  The difference between then and now is the expectation.  People are used to different types of games.  We expect different things.  Likewise if The Last of Us were released 30 years ago some would have liked it, but most would have considered it garbage.  The difference really is in the expectation.

The key difference is in our standards. Expectation means what you believe will happen, it doesn't mean what the final product actually is. Super Mario Bros. 3 was widely regarded not because people thought it would be great, but because it was great for it's time.

A standard is a widely held expectation.  If most people expect something, then it becomes a standard.  Expectations do matter.



vivster said:
Psychology, ever heard of it? Expectations influence everything, if you want it or not. The issue is that you can't influence your expectations a lot. They're built by prior experiences and perception. You can try to temper them but you won't ever have them completely under control. The only people who can control your expectations are the ones in control of the product. If a person gets too high or low expectations it's entirely on the shoulders of marketing. There are of course exceptions if the expectations are based on outdated or wrong information, or are built on something that's just not realistically possible.

If I have the wrong expectations of a game and I did my due diligence in gathering information you can be damn straight that I'm gonna blame that on whoever was in control of marketing.

How is it then that two people can have opposite expectations about a game despite having access to the same information? That you admit there are exceptions means people are totally in control, as their expectations can be decided based on whatever they want, whether it makes sense or not.

Ha, you definitely did not do your due diligence if marketing was your sole source of information.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

A standard is a widely held expectation.  If most people expect something, then it becomes a standard.  Expectations do matter.

Uh no, a standard is set by comparing and determining which is the best of them. Now for example, even though I expected something to be bad, I'm still unhappy that it's bad. How do expectations matter here? You can't blame the expectation when it turned out to be correct. It's clearly the fault of the final product, that's what matters.



I would say that expectations are important. But, it's not your job to manage your expectations about a video game. That's the job of the publisher's marketing department. For example, Death Stranding is coming to market with sky-high expectations, because they've talked it up for three years now. The same is true for Cyberpunk. Those companies wanted it that way. Now they have to deliver.

The opposite approach is to go the Apex Legends route. Throw a quality game on the scene against no expectations whatsoever.

In both cases, gamers expectations were set by the marketing department.



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I'm really having a hard time trying to believe that you have never, in your whole life, felt underwhelmed with a game that ended up being not as good as previous games in the same franchise.

Like, if the next Zelda is not as good as BoTW, many people might feel underwhelmed by it, even if the game is actually good.

Same can be said about FH5, Ori 2, TLU2, Spiderman 2, etc, etc.



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Lonely_Dolphin said:
vivster said:
Psychology, ever heard of it? Expectations influence everything, if you want it or not. The issue is that you can't influence your expectations a lot. They're built by prior experiences and perception. You can try to temper them but you won't ever have them completely under control. The only people who can control your expectations are the ones in control of the product. If a person gets too high or low expectations it's entirely on the shoulders of marketing. There are of course exceptions if the expectations are based on outdated or wrong information, or are built on something that's just not realistically possible.

If I have the wrong expectations of a game and I did my due diligence in gathering information you can be damn straight that I'm gonna blame that on whoever was in control of marketing.

How is it then that two people can have opposite expectations about a game despite having access to the same information? That you admit there are exceptions means people are totally in control, as their expectations can be decided based on whatever they want, whether it makes sense or not.

Ha, you definitely did not do your due diligence if marketing was your sole source of information.

Looks like you didn't actually read a word of what I said.

First I said expectation is shaped by perception AND prior experience. Imagine people having different prior experiences that will lead them to have different expectation even if they have access to the same information.

Also having access to the same information isn't the same as actually getting that information. There are more than enough people who don't actively seek information.

I never said marketing was the only source. That is specifically the case for games when there are no other resources available, namely long before a game is released, aka the period where the vast majority of expectation is created.

Then there is of course the matter of first impressions which have a massive influence on expectations. People can have the same information but have wildly different first impressions, for example merely based on the order they processed the information. First impressions will taint every single bit of information you receive after it. Information can be presented differently outlet by outlet. You don't control how information is presented to you, so you have no control over what kind of expectations they create.

All anyone can do is get as much accurate information as possible and even then it isn't really possible to have accurate expectations. That's because the only way to attain 100% of information is to actually play the game. Everything else is incomplete data.

Stop being willingly obtuse. You're not some superhuman who can bend his involuntary information processing to his will. Nobody can.



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couchmonkey said:
Expectations are impossible to ignore, I am reading thinking fast and slow by Daniel Kahneman and it proposes (with stats and scientific experiments to back it up) that your brain has basically two modes: the “fast” mode is biased, oversimplifies things and can easily be influenced by others. The “slow” mode is more unbiased but it uses up a lot of brain power and is prone to handing tasks right back to the fast mode to make life easier.

What is interesting though, is you are speaking about having “too high” expectations. Most of the book’s studies would suggest that if you see amazing reviews everywhere else, you will tend towards rating the product more highly yourself. Perhaps there is something special about how we view entertainment like games or movies in relation to the numbers and kudos we hear from critics or friends. I would argue it may be because we each have a very different list of entertainment experiences to draw from. Zombieland means something different to folks who love horror than people who dislike it; Shrek means something different to someone raised on Disney than someone raised on Ren and Stimpy

Exactly this (and bolded is a great book btw).

Your expectations set a reference point from which you then base your experience of a game. High reviews of a game set a high reference point and even if you dislike a highly rated game, when coming to recommend it to someone else you'll probably still temper your dislike with lots of positives. On the flip side your experiences of previous games also sets a reference point from which you derive your own expectations.



vivster said:

Looks like you didn't actually read a word of what I said.

First I said expectation is shaped by perception AND prior experience. Imagine people having different prior experiences that will lead them to have different expectation even if they have access to the same information.

Also having access to the same information isn't the same as actually getting that information. There are more than enough people who don't actively seek information.

I never said marketing was the only source. That is specifically the case for games when there are no other resources available, namely long before a game is released, aka the period where the vast majority of expectation is created.

Then there is of course the matter of first impressions which have a massive influence on expectations. People can have the same information but have wildly different first impressions, for example merely based on the order they processed the information. First impressions will taint every single bit of information you receive after it. Information can be presented differently outlet by outlet. You don't control how information is presented to you, so you have no control over what kind of expectations they create.

All anyone can do is get as much accurate information as possible and even then it isn't really possible to have accurate expectations. That's because the only way to attain 100% of information is to actually play the game. Everything else is incomplete data.

Stop being willingly obtuse. You're not some superhuman who can bend his involuntary information processing to his will. Nobody can.

Not seeing the point in baselessly claiming I didn't read your post, but ok, sure, lol.

My example was not specific enough, but the point is this: expectations are just a strong belief, as such are ultimately up to you to decide. That your perception, experience, first impressions, and everything else under the sun can factor in to your decision for what to believe in doesn't change that.

Everyone can decide what they think of information, it is not involuntary. You're just making excuses for whenever your expectations are off, that it's not your fault but the fault of "involuntary information processing." Come on, take some accountability.

Hiku said:

Well I dunno about 'completely in control'. Because my expectations are tied to my experiences.
I don't think I'm capable of expecting a game without a start menu, because out of the hundreds of games I've played, I believe all of them have had one.

But let me put it this way.
I can enjoy a game that looks like Trials of Mana. And I understand that Square Enix are not reasonably able to invest a large amount of their profits into the development of such a game.
But at the same time, people would be disappointed if Final Fantasy 7 Remake looked like that. Why?

It's precisely because of people's experience with new entries in the mainline FF series that they understand that with a game like that, Square Enix can, and traditionally do, invest a relatively big portion of their profits into the development of the game.

So when people fantasize about what a FF7 Remake would be like, their expectations become tied to what they consider to be a 'good' Remake.
And part of that inevitably became how good the characters and environments would look in modern graphics. Etc.

By the way, to go on a bit of a tangent regarding "a game being good is essential", this is something I've thought of before as not always being essential for me personally. There are circumstances where I would welcome a game even if it's not a game I would consider 'a good game'.

For example, I may very well accept an otherwise bad game that gives me the conclusion to the Suikoden story, because at this point it is unlikely that Konami will ever give it to me. Let alone a good one. but I'd take just knowing how the story was intended to conclude.

I never would either, but that's our choice. I'd never run over anyone with my car (so I say trololol), but I still have the choice to do so.

Standard vs. expectation, the former is a measurement based on facts and comparisons, the latter is a belief that can be based on anything. What you're saying regarding FF7R falls under standard. People would be upset if the precedent is not upheld, not just because they expected it to be, as even those uninterested who have no expectations about FF7R could look at it and say it looks bad based on the standard set by prior FF games.

Surely you can agree for the most part that games should strive to be good. I can't think of many bad games that I still enjoyed personally, only maybe FFXIII, but I don't doubt there are exceptions.