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This place is getting deserted, and we have to do something about it

Forums - Website Topics - This place is getting deserted, and we have to do something about it

Darc Requiem said:
Honestly forums in general are just not as popular anymore. The new generation likes Reddit, Twitter, and Discord. Don't understand the fascination withDiscord for discussions. Forums are far easier to search and archive info.

I couldn't begin to explain my distaste for Reddit and especially Twitter in the modern day, but Discord is very much fine I think, for mostly everything... but it really doesn't allow for deeper meaningful discussions as well as a forum does, because it makes every post feel so disposable. I guess it's inevitable as mostly everyone these days has a similarly disposable attention span. But even if we are a small minority in the internet these days, I'm far from convinced that this community is doing as well as it could.



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CGI-Quality said:
mZuzek said:

...Yeah. I've always respected you and you've done yourself no harm with this post. It's nice to have your views on the matter like this, and nice to know you do care about making the moderating feel more organic and less... dictatorial. But at least from the outside, I do get the feeling not every mod shares that mentality.

I don't remember the moderations being any less or more lenient when I joined and in the time I've been here, but I don't recall reading as many complaints back in the day. Maybe that's because they were stricter, I suppose, but I don't feel that was the case. No, what I get the feeling is happening, and your comments on the subject kinda back it up, is that moderations now seem to be a lot more objective, meaning you go head on into obvious offences (as you put it yourself, "fanboy" or "troll"), but at the same time it feels like certain users sometimes get away with visibly bad behavior because they can be ambiguous enough about it that it doesn't demand instant action when looking strictly at the rules. That was the case with quickrick, for example: kind of an undeniably toxic person, who continued to be toxic for a very long period before finally getting banned. I feel he wouldn't have lasted anywhere near as long in previous eras, and maybe that's because they were stricter, but I think it's moreso because of how he twisted the rules to his benefit just enough for him to be able to troll, and that trolling inevitably will bait in 'victims' into striking back with more direct offences and thus, getting banned for it.

Whatever the feeling is among the mod team, it's clear that that's created fear of them among regular users. I remember a few months ago when I started questioning pwerlvlamy in a discussion and several people immediately came to me privately warning me that I could get banned for that, despite agreeing with me. In this very post you talk about how I sort of contradict myself a few times, well... I wouldn't fully admit it, but deep down it's because I'm afraid of criticizing the mod team. In the end, I kinda know I'm not getting in trouble for saying that, partly because of this reputation I think I've earned of being a 'good user', but the fear is there and it can't exist for no reason.

Again, very good critiques and compliments! 

To the fear thing — nah. Civilized, cordial, and constructive critiquing are all part of this. We need to know where we're not reaching our best so we can try to correct the issues. It's only when people take things too far will they find themselves in trouble.

So far, nothing you've said is anything close to that. Like I said, I appreciate how cordial you've been (in fact, nearly everyone in here has [those who haven't have already been dealt with] and that is actually very appreciated).

I had a point, though, and no "nah" fixes it, the fear is there, it's real. I don't feel much of it to be honest, as I usually stay away from controversial topics and usually try to be respectful and thoughtful when I do get involved, and I always try to put that fear aside when I'm saying something bolder because I know what has to be said has to be said and I can always say it in a positive way.

But my point was, no matter how many "nahs" you wanna say (and I know you are being honest with them!), the fear does exist among users and it's important to think about why that's the case, and how to remedy it. I'm very much with Kirby on the post ban being a thing, and also very much with you on PM's before warnings (and also PM's during warnings, and bans too), as those are means of making moderations more human, which is a good thing. I'm just trying to get y'all to rethink your ways, that's all - and rethinking doesn't necessarily mean changing, either.

Either way, I do get the feeling I'll eventually end up on your side.



mZuzek said:
CGI-Quality said:

~ snip

Either way, I do get the feeling I'll eventually end up on your side.

You will. :P

In all seriousness, sometimes, putting a little fear out there is healthy (keeps some things in check). However, if it becomes a thing of abuse, then yeah, we have to nip that. We have some missteps there, but the fix to things isn't always easy. Just like having toxic users banned. Sure, that's the easiest way to remove a problem in the moment, but think of a colony of roaches. Stomping one here and there is futile if your house is infested. Strategy is what will need to be applied.

Crazy as it sounds, sometimes, it is more strategic to let a toxic user remain, as they can bring in site traffic. I'm not saying let it be a free-for-all, but controversy can be healthy. I particularly feel you in one area - mods shouldn't always be arresting officers. Sometimes, a simple intervention is enough. Loud and clear, I hear that!



                                                                                                                                            

I pop in from time to time, but I miss the sales charts. The mods have also had a tough task of cleaning the toxic hateful fanboy members that have been bludgeoned with the banhammer.

I at least enjoy checking out the forums now. Whereas that was not the case 2 years ago.



CGI-Quality said:
mZuzek said:

Either way, I do get the feeling I'll eventually end up on your side.

You will. :P

In all seriousness, sometimes, putting a little fear out there is healthy (keeps some things in check). However, if it becomes a thing of abuse, then yeah, we have to nip that. We have some missteps there, but the fix to things isn't always easy. Just like having toxic users banned. Sure, that's the easiest way to remove a problem in the moment, but think of a colony of roaches. Stomping one here and there is futile if your house is infested. Strategy is what will need to be applied.

Crazy as it sounds, sometimes, it is more strategic to let a toxic user remain, as they can bring in site traffic. I'm not saying let it be a free-for-all, but controversy can be healthy. I particularly feel you in one area - mods shouldn't always be arresting officers. Sometimes, a simple intervention is enough. Loud and clear, I hear that!

Ah, I see. Now the whole world knows why quickrick lasted that long!

Well, some people in this thread have already suggested that, saying that even toxic members can be beneficial. I guess it's just hard, isn't it? Making a community thrive and all that stuff. Hard thingsies.



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mZuzek said:
CGI-Quality said:

You will. :P

In all seriousness, sometimes, putting a little fear out there is healthy (keeps some things in check). However, if it becomes a thing of abuse, then yeah, we have to nip that. We have some missteps there, but the fix to things isn't always easy. Just like having toxic users banned. Sure, that's the easiest way to remove a problem in the moment, but think of a colony of roaches. Stomping one here and there is futile if your house is infested. Strategy is what will need to be applied.

Crazy as it sounds, sometimes, it is more strategic to let a toxic user remain, as they can bring in site traffic. I'm not saying let it be a free-for-all, but controversy can be healthy. I particularly feel you in one area - mods shouldn't always be arresting officers. Sometimes, a simple intervention is enough. Loud and clear, I hear that!

Ah, I see. Now the whole world knows why quickrick lasted that long!

Well, some people in this thread have already suggested that, saying that even toxic members can be beneficial. I guess it's just hard, isn't it? Making a community thrive and all that stuff. Hard thingsies.

Yep. That's the thing with stuff like this, there's always an argument that can be made for why something is either beneficial or isn't. 



                                                                                                                                            

CGI-Quality said:
mZuzek said:

Either way, I do get the feeling I'll eventually end up on your side.

You will. :P

In all seriousness, sometimes, putting a little fear out there is healthy (keeps some things in check). However, if it becomes a thing of abuse, then yeah, we have to nip that. We have some missteps there, but the fix to things isn't always easy. Just like having toxic users banned. Sure, that's the easiest way to remove a problem in the moment, but think of a colony of roaches. Stomping one here and there is futile if your house is infested. Strategy is what will need to be applied.

Crazy as it sounds, sometimes, it is more strategic to let a toxic user remain, as they can bring in site traffic. I'm not saying let it be a free-for-all, but controversy can be healthy. I particularly feel you in one area - mods shouldn't always be arresting officers. Sometimes, a simple intervention is enough. Loud and clear, I hear that!

So that's how you view this community. How rude.

Certainly one of the worst analogies posted this week, because this site isn't infested by a large number of toxic users.

If site traffic is really a concern, you may consider to allow users to talk about toxic users instead of shutting that down. Topics concerning what makes this site good or bad tend to garner more attention than the average topic, so allowing open discussions about users themselves falls into the same category. It's also a more constructive and productive approach than achieving activity through toxicity.



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@CGI-Quality @mZuzek 

Just dropping my piece on top of what CGI has said while it's still in my head; 

Since I've been a mod (Two years now) I've noticed the way in which users and mod interact has sort of been a shifting tide going back and forth, although there's definitely been a progression on how we've moderated, and despite opinions, we're actually a LOT more lenient now than when I first started, and even back then, compared to teams when I first joined the forums in 2010... wow!

CGI has helped introduce new was of getting across to users, the most obvious one, as he's mentioned is PMing them rather than a warning/ban, he's also pushed for us to use more thread warnings/announcements rather than going in on users, basically letting them know their behaviour isn't up to scratch and giving them a chance to correct it first... and we also have additional tools in the works (This is the part where I say "Thanks @TalonMan <3") , one of which is a thread ban, it basically just bans a user from a specific thread, not the whole forums, which is basically a lighter form of moderation that I think you're sort of getting at.

I'm not really sure if I can talk about any of the other features yet, since not everything is ready and I'm assuming we'll have a thread about it at some point, or it'll be posted in the Mod Thread, but yeah... we're definitely working on trying to figure out what's best for the community in terms of moderation etc. and have been for quite a while, lol.



Bristow9091 said:

This is the part where I say "Thanks @TalonMan <3"

Can we have a part where everyone says that?



mZuzek said:
Bristow9091 said:

This is the part where I say "Thanks @TalonMan <3"

Can we have a part where everyone says that?

inorite, we really need an appreciation thread or something lol :P