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Forums - General Discussion - GoT season 8 final episode 6 tonight. (spoiler discussion) Fin. The end... for ever. D&D can burn in the seven hells.

 

I'm...

Hyped. 24 55.81%
 
Mildly interested. 11 25.58%
 
Not bothered. 5 11.63%
 
/indifferent/not watched/other in comments. 3 6.98%
 
Total:43

Daenrys doing all of this i'm pretty sure it was GRRM idea's from the beginning. If Daenerys path to madness was better explained and not rushed in 2 or 3 eps it would've been fantastic.

Daenerys just feels like she has lost everything and everyone is against her. She resent Westeros in the end. She had to flee as a baby to the other side of the sea hiding from murderes for years until her brother decided to sell her as a slave. She then started to feel she deserved to be the queen because she was the mother of dragons. She lost her true love Drogo in the process. She fought from nothing to gather an army that conquered cities and free people from their opressors. People loved her for that. No one give her nothing for free and she had to make strong decisions everytime. Just before going to Westeros she was told by everyone of her assesors she was going to be the perfect queen in Westeros and everyone would love her there too.

And then, she comes to Westeros and everything starts to go south. Tyrion and Varys suddenly do not trust her decissions anymore, but she still does what they told her to do. Westerosi people don't respect her nor see her as the true Queen as she was told from childhood. Then Jon appears, she ends loving him and she is willing to do everything for him. So when he asks her to help him defeating the white walkers she gaves her full sopport to the cause. She ends losing one of her dragons and in the battle of winterfell she loses his most loyal friend and a lot of her beloved soldiers. She made a huge sacrifice for the people of Westeros. By the end of the battle no one in the north or the westerosi side thanks her or apreciate her efforts. In fact they still try to undermine their power once is revelaed Jon is a Targaryen. Then she loses another dragon and her best friend at the hands of Cersei and her allies, and she still is despised by the same people. After that Daenerys is betrayed by anyone from Westeros she trusts: Varys, Tyrion, Jon, the North allies, Jaime, .... By this time she's being surrounded by jealous, traitors and incompetent people who give her bad advise after bad advice, and even Jon seems to not love her anymore. She doesn't understand either why the people of King's Landing is not fighting for their freedom like the people in Meeren did. Why they do not revolt against Cersei. Do they prefer Cersei as queen she must wonder? She realises she doesn't understand these lands and their people as much as she believed and that Westeros will never understand her either.

So here we are, in last episode. The battle starts and ends soon with a total victory. Everything seems fine. Tyrion asked her to stop the attack once the bells ring. The bells are ringing and then she sees the Red Keep, a Targaryen symbol from her ancestors. The same people who build this city. A city that give their back to support the people that killed her family years ago. The same people who did not fight against that usurper of a queen called Cersei. These people were living in a city that was built by Targaryens and they did not respected that at all. Nobody loved her here. At this moment, she hates the people of King's Landing as much as Cersei. All of them are culprits. All of them need to learn a lesson. So, if Westeros people do not want to love her, then they are going to fear her. That's her decision, and she starts to burn everything.

I'm pretty sure the main ideas behind all of this, are the same as GRRM. The problem in all of this, is that all this process from 7th and 8th season probably should have been a lot more episodes. It seems to me like eps 1-3 and 4-6 could've been complete seasons. It would have helped build the characters progressions of Daenerys, Jon, Tyrion, Varys, ... a lot better. The way the show did it, seemed like characters were doing stupid things or 180º turns just so the story went to the way the writers wanted. It felt rushed, and this is all on D&D fault. This show deserved better...



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colafitte said:

(post)

I don't think we'll ever know if Martin will finish his books this way, or if that's just a plot point he conceived at a certain stage and had to share with D&D for the TV show, even though his organic style of writing was taking him elsewhere (like most of what he had in mind for the first books just a few years before releasing them was completely different of what we got, looking at his original leaked outline).

I don't see his Winds of Winter getting us further than the solution of Stannis + Dorne + Victarion + Dothraki + Meeren plot. So at most we'll be at the end of season 5 with the last book Martin is probably ever going to release.



 

 

 

 

 

Faelco said:
Just watched it... Impressive visually, but the rest of the episode doesn't make a lot of sense, with zero consistency compared to the rest of the season (especially episode 4).

Between the breath making rocks explode, the huge flags repeated again and again about the bells, and Dany getting angry all alone on her dragon for absolutely nothing (that scene was really laughable), it was pretty ridiculous. And way too much on the "Let's make good guys become crazy and kill civilians for 30 minutes to make the viewer hate them". It's just overkill, nothing good in that (well, at least it's easer to write that than dialogues...).

Too bad, because the cinematography and the music are top notch. Obviously, no hope for the last episode.... Can't wait for the next book to make all of this disappear.

Did just watch the episode and it's like the bells reminded her of when king's landing was taken from her family.

This season is such a bummer,visually impressive and the writing ruins it all.



John2290 said:
haxxiy said:

George has his own plot speeding device now with the glass candles, he doesn't have to spend so long with travel once they are implemented and he even had a foot note in one of the ADOD that he was time skipping. I think we will see him cut a lot of it down and bring the long night a lot sooner than in the show, I hope at least. 

Well, we have some sample chapters, both of removed ADWD material and newer stuff, and pace seems to be even slower than ADWD, if anything.

Not trying to be pessimistic, but...



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:

I don't think we'll ever know if Martin will finish his books this way, or if that's just a plot point he conceived at a certain stage and had to share with D&D for the TV show, even though his organic style of writing was taking him elsewhere (like most of what he had in mind for the first books just a few years before releasing them was completely different of what we got, looking at his original leaked outline).

I don't see his Winds of Winter getting us further than the solution of Stannis + Dorne + Victarion + Dothraki + Meeren plot. So at most we'll be at the end of season 5 with the last book Martin is probably ever going to release.

A few weeks ago i was convinced the show was going in a direction completely different as GRRM intended. But after seeing this episode and knowing how the series ends next week, now i'm feeling that the end will be very similar. Things will be different in the process (a lot of character that exists in the books but not in the tv series) but we will still see the problem with "the others" (ot white walkers in the show) solved before Mad Daenerys in KL at the end. I feel that the idea of Daenerys sacrificing herself and her beloved ones and not receiving any love from the people of Westeros is GRRM idea. The idea of Daenerys suffering with the concept that she is seen as brutal foreigner conqueror instead of a hero is going to be pivotal in the books too. She feeling Jon is going to be seen as the right King is another thing that will haunt her for sure.

But yeah, to reach this point, we'll still need at least 3 or 4 more books, and it seems GRRM won't be able ever to finish them, what i found a tragedy.

John2290 said:

I really hope it is Georges intention because the idea is epic and I really wanna see it done well with a glimpes inyo what the fuck is going on in her head. I hope he isn't scared off by the backlash and confuses it with the execution as apposed to the development leading up to it. 

The idea of just 6 eps for season 8 is what is destroying the show at the end. I don't understand how HBO accepted this if they were willing to spend the money the show needed. What an horrendous decision by D&D. If anything of this is told in detail with GRRM style in the books, it will be great. I need to have faith GRRM will end this some day.....



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In the early seasons, she got sold, raped, had to eat a fucking raw heart, lost her husband ( the rapist one) when she started loving him, her babyand got betrayed a bunch of times then in the more recent seasons, she lost 2 kids, 2 long standing friends and advisors got betrayed again by the same people she help saved. Yet people are surprised she went crazy.



Bet reminder: I bet with Tboned51 that Splatoon won't reach the 1 million shipped mark by the end of 2015. I win if he loses and I lose if I lost.

Faelco said:
Between the breath making rocks explode, the huge flags repeated again and again about the bells, and Dany getting angry all alone on her dragon for absolutely nothing (that scene was really laughable), it was pretty ridiculous. And way too much on the "Let's make good guys become crazy and kill civilians for 30 minutes to make the viewer hate them". It's just overkill, nothing good in that (well, at least it's easer to write that than dialogues...).

It was well established in Thrones universe that Dragon Breath is so powerful that it can destroy stone.

They said it quite a few times over the years. So that one thing isn't out of place.



the_dark_lewd said:
Faelco said:
Between the breath making rocks explode, the huge flags repeated again and again about the bells, and Dany getting angry all alone on her dragon for absolutely nothing (that scene was really laughable), it was pretty ridiculous. And way too much on the "Let's make good guys become crazy and kill civilians for 30 minutes to make the viewer hate them". It's just overkill, nothing good in that (well, at least it's easer to write that than dialogues...).

It was well established in Thrones universe that Dragon Breath is so powerful that it can destroy stone.

They said it quite a few times over the years. So that one thing isn't out of place.

It can melt stones. Melt. Like Harrenhal, yes. It doesn't make them explode like C4, it's fire, not explosives. 



Faelco said:
the_dark_lewd said:

It was well established in Thrones universe that Dragon Breath is so powerful that it can destroy stone.

They said it quite a few times over the years. So that one thing isn't out of place.

It can melt stones. Melt. Like Harrenhal, yes. It doesn't make them explode like C4, it's fire, not explosives. 

Not to mention it took Balerion the Black Dread a whole night to partially melt down Harrenhal.

I've seen some argue it might be vaporizing the water inside the rocks and making them explode, but watching again the iron fleet scene it's clear that's not the case. The jet just packs that much kinetic energy somehow. Arguably that feature alone is far more destructive than the fire. Drogon is like the world's most powerful pressure washer, he could be breathing milk instead and it would raze KL to the ground.



 

 

 

 

 

colafitte said:
haxxiy said:

Do you think we'll have a new "record" in critical reception after a certain, uh, scene?

It's going to be spectacular seeing how people people react indeed .

Could you please tell me where I can find that leak so I can read it and get this over with?  I don´t feel like sitting through a whole hour of this again (besides, I dont wanna support the show anymore).

Thanks in advance