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Animal Liberation Now!!

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vivster said:
MrWayne said:

Well it depends which vegan you ask, some people are vegan because they don't want animals to suffer, they definitely hate plants more than animals. Other people are vegan because they think eating meat is a huge wast of resources which is true, to get 1 kg of meat, you need 100 times more farmland than for 1 kg of vegetables.

Jumpin said:

It would be a big positive if the world went vegan. Especially at our current population levels.

Food related emissions would drop by 70%.

We would reverse the health issues plaguing the world caused by the meteoric rise in meat and animal product consumption; similar to what's been happening with the decrease in smoking.

Below is an interesting graphic which details the use of land: basically, a very small amount of the world's calories is acquired from animal products, but nearly 80% of the world's food-based farm land is dedicated to it; that means the remaining little bit of farmland used to grow plants for human consumption provides by far the majority of our nutrients. Basically, we would only need to convert 7-9% of our land to plant based food, and we would be able to regain the 68-70% of the world's food producing farmland to be returned to natural habitats. We could reverse the drastic drop in wildlife (the amount of wildlife left in the world is less than 40% of what it was in the 1970s, less than 20% of what it was before the turn of the 20th century).

It makes logical sense from multiple different angles: environmental, ethical, and ecological. The most pressing is obviously the environmental disaster currently in progress. It is occurring slowly relative to our experience, but terrifyingly quickly on a geological scale (currently, about 1 cm every 2 years, which is up from about 1 cm every 9 years in 1900, and 1 cm every 6 years in 1989); the rising economic cost will, unfortunately, only be something that can't be ignored after tremendous and irreversible damage has already been done. If the world went vegan, we would be able to offset this catastrophe by a significant amount. Population growth is a major issue, but we can mitigate the impact (and even reverse some of the current impact) substantially with a global conversion to veganism.

Here's the graphic I promised:

Not sure if efficiency is the right angle to tackle this. Humans do a lot of things that are highly inefficient just for the sake of a slightly more comfortable or happier life. As long as it's sustainable there is nothing wrong with inefficiency. If we go purely by efficiency we'd all eat grey paste pumped with nutrients. Imagine how much energy we would save if we didn't have to ship and sell untouched vegetables instead of just scrambling everything and delivering it to the paste factory.

The things how they are now have evolved to suit the ever growing demands of humans for both quantity and quality. So far we're doing just fine. I don't believe in a coming world wide food crash, if our current consumption of meat becomes unviable it will become so slowly. Slowly enough that we will take the necessary steps to mitigate it. I'd have absolutely no problem with eating fake meat if they can make it authentic enough.

I believe the "problem" we're currently having is neither ecological, economical or ethical. It's a social problem about the perception of vegan values and the glorification of meat and, forgive me for using the term, toxic masculinity. These arbitrary and toxic values are driven by society and big corporations and that's the thing we have to tackle first. We shouldn't vilify meat and instead promote and normalize a vegan diet. Sadly the most militant vegans are doing the opposite and hurting their case. Thanks to them we're now at a point that's hurting both sides and is socially basically impossible to solve it.

(Homer Simpson voice) Mmmmmmmmm... grey paste pumped with nutrients....

But honestly, I highly doubt that would occur. But we would certainly do a lot better if we ran society far more efficiently: not just in food production, but also in energy production. The lack of efficiency we currently have is largely due to a lack of appreciation and respect for our planet and its limitations. In my lifetime, I have seen what can only be a catastrophic decline in wildlife throughout the world (60% since 1970, which indicates that the amount of wildlife is probably about half of what it was at the time of my birth). A large reason for this is the rapid expansion of the livestock industry, which has nearly quadrupled worldwide since 1970; deforestation has led to a tremendous decrease in the planet's capability at repairing its atmosphere.

Regardless of how we evolved, it is a long time since we could be considered part of the natural world (for the most of us). Natural selection no longer governs us as a species due to our social constructs and culture - we mostly don't eat natural foods sources any longer (the vast majority of meat in grocery stores is from domesticated animals which are unnatural, even the majority of fruit and vegetables are domesticated crops). We are doing heavy damage to the world, and the leading culprit is the livestock industry which has done more damage to lands and damage to the air we breath and fresh water supplies than any other factor in the world today. Part of the issue is farming is that it takes away the horror in how "meat" is made, it's the flesh of an animal that has been slaughtered - instead of hunting down and killing an animal, you just spend 5-30 minutes in an office somewhere crunching numbers, writing reports, or meeting with clients and other colleagues - completely disconnected from their food than one with nothing but a fishing rod and a hunting knife (even a gun makes things way easier and less connected than it perhaps should be) - most people don't want to kill an animal, it's not a natural instinct - instead society has set up this very cowardly system that we call the livestock and meat industry. Anyway, that's my thought on the unnatural connection we have with what we eat, as a people.

I don't buy for a moment that vilifying meat eating is counter-productive, almost all rapid social change has occurred as a result of the vilification of the undesired trait: absolute monarchies, slavery, fascism, racial segregation, fur, ozone depleting chemicals, wife beating, homophobia (and that is fairly recent), child labour, etc... And yes, some people will be furious, even violently opposed, but it has worked. And I very much admire what the vegan community has done (I wouldn't call them militant, because that implies military action) - the recent vilification of meat by vegan groups has curved the growth of the animal products industry and on a per capita basis we now eat less meat as a species than we did just a few years ago - the percentage of vegans has drastically increased throughout Europe and other Westernized nations. It's obvious there is a positive impact; and like most major movements, people are going to be insulted and have their feelings hurt - but it's all irrelevant in the end since this is the right thing to do to help repair the damage we have done to the planet (yes I have been playing Final Fantasy 7 lately!).

Also, nothing wrong with a little dose of toxic masculinity =D

Last edited by Jumpin - on 09 April 2019

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Meat and dairy industries are unsustainable, more land is needed to produce animals bred to be inhumanely treated and slaughtered and turned into human food products. The majority of the world in third world countries, animals continue to be treated in humanely, tortured before being killed for human consumption. In first world countries there has been a huge cover up of cruel treatment of animals for human food consumption. Far less land is needed to produce vegetables, fruits and grains that require less energy to produce and cheaper for consumers. Many humans around the world have allergies to dairy and other animal products like fish, eggs, chicken, pork, etc. It is only people in the Western world, where people have adapted to consuming dairy. There is no need for dairy in a normal diet, milk is for babies.

When the prices of quality steak fillets are around $40 to $50 per kg and lobsters are $30 each and fresh fillets are $30 to $40 per kg. High cost alone for quality meat products is enough to force people to become Vegetarian or Vegan. More people becoming Vegetarian and Vegans will help reduce carbon emissions and save on the energy costs involved in production and murder of animals for food production. Big Dairy and Big Meat Industries have lied through their teeth for year with their false claims that Dairy and Meat products are needed in human diet. End animal cruelty and Liberate Animals Now! Go Vegan!

Protesting is the only way to get attention to issues, build support, influence others to join the cause and force the government to implement change now!
Taking action is better than doing nothing and complaining about it.
Let's fight for Animal rights! Make more noise! Go Vegan!

Last edited by Dark_Lord_2008 - on 09 April 2019

Dark_Lord_2008 said:

Meat and dairy industries are unsustainable, more land is needed to produce animals bred to be inhumanely treated and slaughtered and turned into human food products. The majority of the world in third world countries, animals continue to be treated in humanely, tortured before being killed for human consumption. In first world countries there has been a huge cover up of cruel treatment of animals for human food consumption. Far less land is needed to produce vegetables, fruits and grains that require less energy to produce and cheaper for consumers. Many humans around the world have allergies to dairy and other animal products like fish, eggs, chicken, pork, etc. It is only people in the Western world, where people have adapted to consuming dairy. There is no need for dairy in a normal diet, milk is for babies.

When the prices of quality steak fillets are around $40 to $50 per kg and lobsters are $30 each and fresh fillets are $30 to $40 per kg. High cost alone for quality meat products is enough to force people to become Vegetarian or Vegan. More people becoming Vegetarian and Vegans will help reduce carbon emissions and save on the energy costs involved in production and murder of animals for food production. Big Dairy and Big Meat Industries have lied through their teeth for year with their false claims that Dairy and Meat products are needed in human diet. End animal cruelty and Liberate Animals Now! Go Vegan!

Protesting is the only way to get attention to issues, build support, influence others to join the cause and force the government to implement change now!
Taking action is better than doing nothing and complaining about it.
Let's fight for Animal rights! Make more noise! Go Vegan!

The land thing is a myth. It is where you farm that makes the difference. There was an article about farmers who moved from NSW to TAS because of the climate conditions. They said in Tasmania they have 1/4 the land that they had in NSW to raise the some amount of cattle. The main reason for that is because outback NSW gets dry so they need more land as grass grows slower, or they had to subsidies with hay. In tas, the grass grows quick and is generally a green state for most the year. Then again, outback NSW and QLD? who would live there anyway? are we really wasting land that is in such harsh conditions?

Protesting does not raise attention to the issue  only in a good way, it also makes meat eaters say fuck you, i am going to consume more. They should be pushing for laws that penalise poor animal practices to ensure cruelty does not happen.

If half these Vegan protestors were serious, they wouldn't be wearing leather products or stealing animals and placing them in cars with leather seats whilst live streaming that they fighting the good fight.



 

 

Legit just got through eating a hamburger and saw this thread and laughed to myself.



And this is why I despise these vegans. You're a vegan? Great, good for you! Now stop trying to force others to follow your opinion. Cause naturally, humans are omnivores.

edit: Just finished eating a hot dog, now feel like eating a second one because of this thread.

Last edited by flashfire926 - on 10 April 2019

Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

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flashfire926 said:

And this is why I despise these vegans. You're a vegan? Great, good for you! Now stop trying to force others to follow your opinion. Cause naturally, humans are omnivores.

edit: Just finished eating a hot dog, now feel like eating a second one because of this thread.

lol i herd the dumbest term today. Flexitarian. A vegan who goes back and forth between eating meat and vegetables.

To me that sounds like an omnivore lol.

Hell sometimes I may eat meat alone, sometimes I may eat some veggies, and sometimes both at the same time lol. If i get sick of my wife's cooking, I may even eat some fruit lol

On protest days all it does it make people eat more meat lol.



 

 

Jumpin said:
vivster said:

Not sure if efficiency is the right angle to tackle this. Humans do a lot of things that are highly inefficient just for the sake of a slightly more comfortable or happier life. As long as it's sustainable there is nothing wrong with inefficiency. If we go purely by efficiency we'd all eat grey paste pumped with nutrients. Imagine how much energy we would save if we didn't have to ship and sell untouched vegetables instead of just scrambling everything and delivering it to the paste factory.

The things how they are now have evolved to suit the ever growing demands of humans for both quantity and quality. So far we're doing just fine. I don't believe in a coming world wide food crash, if our current consumption of meat becomes unviable it will become so slowly. Slowly enough that we will take the necessary steps to mitigate it. I'd have absolutely no problem with eating fake meat if they can make it authentic enough.

I believe the "problem" we're currently having is neither ecological, economical or ethical. It's a social problem about the perception of vegan values and the glorification of meat and, forgive me for using the term, toxic masculinity. These arbitrary and toxic values are driven by society and big corporations and that's the thing we have to tackle first. We shouldn't vilify meat and instead promote and normalize a vegan diet. Sadly the most militant vegans are doing the opposite and hurting their case. Thanks to them we're now at a point that's hurting both sides and is socially basically impossible to solve it.

(Homer Simpson voice) Mmmmmmmmm... grey paste pumped with nutrients....

But honestly, I highly doubt that would occur. But we would certainly do a lot better if we ran society far more efficiently: not just in food production, but also in energy production. The lack of efficiency we currently have is largely due to a lack of appreciation and respect for our planet and its limitations. In my lifetime, I have seen what can only be a catastrophic decline in wildlife throughout the world (60% since 1970, which indicates that the amount of wildlife is probably about half of what it was at the time of my birth). A large reason for this is the rapid expansion of the livestock industry, which has nearly quadrupled worldwide since 1970; deforestation has led to a tremendous decrease in the planet's capability at repairing its atmosphere.

Regardless of how we evolved, it is a long time since we could be considered part of the natural world (for the most of us). Natural selection no longer governs us as a species due to our social constructs and culture - we mostly don't eat natural foods sources any longer (the vast majority of meat in grocery stores is from domesticated animals which are unnatural, even the majority of fruit and vegetables are domesticated crops). We are doing heavy damage to the world, and the leading culprit is the livestock industry which has done more damage to lands and damage to the air we breath and fresh water supplies than any other factor in the world today. Part of the issue is farming is that it takes away the horror in how "meat" is made, it's the flesh of an animal that has been slaughtered - instead of hunting down and killing an animal, you just spend 5-30 minutes in an office somewhere crunching numbers, writing reports, or meeting with clients and other colleagues - completely disconnected from their food than one with nothing but a fishing rod and a hunting knife (even a gun makes things way easier and less connected than it perhaps should be) - most people don't want to kill an animal, it's not a natural instinct - instead society has set up this very cowardly system that we call the livestock and meat industry. Anyway, that's my thought on the unnatural connection we have with what we eat, as a people.

I don't buy for a moment that vilifying meat eating is counter-productive, almost all rapid social change has occurred as a result of the vilification of the undesired trait: absolute monarchies, slavery, fascism, racial segregation, fur, ozone depleting chemicals, wife beating, homophobia (and that is fairly recent), child labour, etc... And yes, some people will be furious, even violently opposed, but it has worked. And I very much admire what the vegan community has done (I wouldn't call them militant, because that implies military action) - the recent vilification of meat by vegan groups has curved the growth of the animal products industry and on a per capita basis we now eat less meat as a species than we did just a few years ago - the percentage of vegans has drastically increased throughout Europe and other Westernized nations. It's obvious there is a positive impact; and like most major movements, people are going to be insulted and have their feelings hurt - but it's all irrelevant in the end since this is the right thing to do to help repair the damage we have done to the planet (yes I have been playing Final Fantasy 7 lately!).

Also, nothing wrong with a little dose of toxic masculinity =D

20 years ago nobody gave a shit about vegans. Thanks to their anti-meat campaigns they managed to build up a front against them that is stronger than ever. We've come from tolerating vegans to hating them. How is that not counter productive? I mean how do you befriend people and make them interested in your cause? Do you A: Talk about how cool your stuff is or do you B: Call them assholes for the things they like and blaming them for all the problems in this world?

From how you talk I see that you mostly come from an ethical standpoint, which is another terrible approach. Ethics are by definition arbitrary and subjective and won't sway anyone who has different ethics. They are the main point where anti-vegans can pin you down because ethics are just arbitrary rules you made up yourself. You can't tell someone to care about animals and the environment when that person just doesn't care and especially when you draw arbitrary lines between what's worthy of protection and what is not. It makes you look like a hypocrite, further hurting your cause. Like how you condone the notion of masculinity even though in our current understanding masculinity is very much a very anti-vegan disposition.

Just get your message straight and don't try to appeal to arbitrary and subjective values that others will never understand anyway. I, personally, have nothing against veganism and I probably wouldn't care to live on a vegan diet if I didn't have to go out of my way for it. I'm sure the majority of people are like that. But instead of appealing to them, certain vegans just can't stop poking a hornet nest with their "holier than thou" attitude.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Just a quick reminder that Cities and technology destroys the world at a much faster rate than cattle could ever try.

How much natural vegetation do you have on let's say NYC? And in a 100 miles radius?

How much do you destroy the environment to have a battery that is changed every other year in plenty of your electronics? How much impact does it take to have your car running?

Militants just really like to point finger and accuse others of the problems so they can feel superior.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

If you don't eat meat ok, mind your business, don't force others to to so. I will eat meat until I die.



Being a Vegan Evangelist is all about pushing our beliefs onto the world. The more people that sign up and join our Vegan movement the better. Being a Vegan is all about saving the Animals, hugging trees and saving the planet. Vegans consume less energy and leave a lower carbon foot print. I am a proud Vegan, I help reduce carbon emission, defend animal rights and help save the planet. It is a Big issue to us Vegans and we go out of our way protecting animal rights, environmental issues, saving the planet, reducing carbon emissions.