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HDR is mind blowing (Digital foundry best HDR games)

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Which would you prefer if pushed.

HDR. 22 61.11%
 
Ray tracing. 7 19.44%
 
Neither/other in comments. 7 19.44%
 
Total:36
Lauster said:
As a color-blind people, HDR never interested me. Are there any advantages in this case anyway ? Could another color-blind tell us about his experience ?

Of course there is, the luminosity is the main focus for me and trumps all else. Having three different light scoures or more crossing each other in Metro Exodus and one seemingly blinding you yet still being able to see the environment as if through the light rays in Metro Exodus Is crazy cool. I don't know much about colour blindness but surely having bmmore natural lighting scoures with a wider range from black to full luminosity would have to be a boon for the colour blind more than anyone else, No?



 

Everything in the above reply is my opinion, from my own perspective and not representative of reality outside of my own head!

-Android user, please be gentle with critique on my spelling.

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Metro Exodus might not be the prettiest game on console but holy he'll is that HDR used in such a fantastic way. The graphics on ps4 are flawed at times and really make you see just how HDR can make a game look way better than it is under the surface, not to say the game doesn't do things well graphically but it's something that fails to come together without a powerful PC. It still blows most other third party shooters that go for realism games out of the water when HDR is on (at times and certain environments). The desert environment on the surface is stunning and when a haboob blows on through at sunset with sun rays shining over the land and you roll on into the middle of a group of enemies with your van, all of whom have their helmet lights on and shining around while the head lights in your van shines through the sand, warm oil lamps light up spots all around the camp and you can see all these light scoures represented perfectly from the sunlight right down to the darkest part of the screen as if they are crossing way other with little loss in environmental detail. It's just perfection, I just wish I had a PC powerful enough to do RTX with HDR on this game and benifet from a cleaner graphical and artistic presentation while doing so, without the falters of the console port.. I mean c'mon, we've seen the PRO do waaaay better than this.
I'm going to go 1080p and supersample it and see if that helps but if it doesn't a quick fix is just getting closer to the TV anyway and then the game looks a good deal better as the individual assets are where the graphics are aimed and 4k goes to adding real estate across the screen.



 

Everything in the above reply is my opinion, from my own perspective and not representative of reality outside of my own head!

-Android user, please be gentle with critique on my spelling.

John2290 said:
Lauster said:
As a color-blind people, HDR never interested me. Are there any advantages in this case anyway ? Could another color-blind tell us about his experience ?

Of course there is, the luminosity is the main focus for me and trumps all else. Having three different light scoures or more crossing each other in Metro Exodus and one seemingly blinding you yet still being able to see the environment as if through the light rays in Metro Exodus Is crazy cool. I don't know much about colour blindness but surely having bmmore natural lighting scoures with a wider range from black to full luminosity would have to be a boon for the colour blind more than anyone else, No?

Doesn't mater how much color blind you are, you certainly will notice that on dark or bright situations you lose detail (even in real world) and that contrast is important to see the details.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Eh, it's nice but it's not mind-blowing for me. I could live without it tbh.



Thanks Don and John for your answer.

DonFerrari said:
Lauster said:
As a color-blind people, HDR never interested me. Are there any advantages in this case anyway ? Could another color-blind tell us about his experience ?

It was already mentioned here, the contrast.

You'll be able to differentiate much better the levels of dark or light. So when you are in a night scene or open area with lot of sunlight you'll see better all the elements on the screen instead of what we have today that things get hidden in plain sight due to scene being to dark or bright.

But of course the effect will need both a good panel and content. Some "HDR" panel and content are very light on the contrast ratio.

Yes, as Svennoj experimented in GT Sport for example. I think it's something I can notice, but if I have the good panel and content as you said.

 

John2290 said:
Lauster said:
As a color-blind people, HDR never interested me. Are there any advantages in this case anyway ? Could another color-blind tell us about his experience ?

Of course there is, the luminosity is the main focus for me and trumps all else. Having three different light scoures or more crossing each other in Metro Exodus and one seemingly blinding you yet still being able to see the environment as if through the light rays in Metro Exodus Is crazy cool. I don't know much about colour blindness but surely having bmmore natural lighting scoures with a wider range from black to full luminosity would have to be a boon for the colour blind more than anyone else, No?

Yes, it's still a better option, I suppose, even if the gain is much less than a person with normal vision. Does the lumen power of a panel depends on its HDR capabilities ?

 

For explaining color blindness, pictures are better than words :

https://hitek.fr/42/vision-des-couleurs-daltoniens_4682

(scroll down to examples)

In my case, it's a deuteranomaly, and I can't see any difference between a deuteranomaly picture and a normal vision picture.

Thus, about color perception from HDR, I'm not sure that I can see the difference with a No-HDR display.



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Lauster said:

Thanks Don and John for your answer.

DonFerrari said:

It was already mentioned here, the contrast.

You'll be able to differentiate much better the levels of dark or light. So when you are in a night scene or open area with lot of sunlight you'll see better all the elements on the screen instead of what we have today that things get hidden in plain sight due to scene being to dark or bright.

But of course the effect will need both a good panel and content. Some "HDR" panel and content are very light on the contrast ratio.

Yes, as Svennoj experimented in GT Sport for example. I think it's something I can notice, but if I have the good panel and content as you said.

 

John2290 said:

Of course there is, the luminosity is the main focus for me and trumps all else. Having three different light scoures or more crossing each other in Metro Exodus and one seemingly blinding you yet still being able to see the environment as if through the light rays in Metro Exodus Is crazy cool. I don't know much about colour blindness but surely having bmmore natural lighting scoures with a wider range from black to full luminosity would have to be a boon for the colour blind more than anyone else, No?

Yes, it's still a better option, I suppose, even if the gain is much less than a person with normal vision. Does the lumen power of a panel depends on its HDR capabilities ?

 

For explaining color blindness, pictures are better than words :

https://hitek.fr/42/vision-des-couleurs-daltoniens_4682

(scroll down to examples)

In my case, it's a deuteranomaly, and I can't see any difference between a deuteranomaly picture and a normal vision picture.

Thus, about color perception from HDR, I'm not sure that I can see the difference with a No-HDR display.

I don't know how exactly you see, but HDR give more options in all color spectrum, so even if you can't differentiate some colors you don't see the world in a 16 color palette =p, so having more color gradiente could be good.

Question for you, do you see a general difference in color between real world and games? If you do, the HDR will give you more natural colors.

On the brightness/contrast... a panel doesn't need to be HDR to have high bright or contrast, it is more on the opposite, it needs good brigh and contrast to receive HDR classification. But since the parameters are quite big you can have inane HDR to excelent and both would receive the seal. Plus the content needs to enable it and make good use (not like RDR2).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

The PC has finally starting over lapping PS exclusives in graphics again, I checked out Metro exodus on a mates PC to compare HDR, played around on the desert map and HOLY SHIT... just Holy fucking shit, It might be a bad port on PS4 but no wonder the game on PC is insane even just 1440p without ray tracing on a small ish monitor, it's balls to the wall with graphics effects, it still lacks that polish that Sony first party studios give to a games overall presentation but that doesn't matter when the graphics and effects are so crazy and with the ray tracing on even though it dropped the frame rate to jitters is massively beyond anything I've seen on and it's supposed to be even better on the forest map but I didn't wanna spoil my playthrough. I haven't had much time with it but from what I seen it's the first game I have seen on PC that looks drastically better than a PS exclusive as they were at release. In a few weeks I'll be seeing this running at 4k, ultra settings with maxed out Ray tracing, I've not been so excited about graphics since Horizon released.

God I hope the PRO version of the ps5 targets some form of Ray tracing.



 

Everything in the above reply is my opinion, from my own perspective and not representative of reality outside of my own head!

-Android user, please be gentle with critique on my spelling.

Lauster said:

Thanks Don and John for your answer.

DonFerrari said:

It was already mentioned here, the contrast.

You'll be able to differentiate much better the levels of dark or light. So when you are in a night scene or open area with lot of sunlight you'll see better all the elements on the screen instead of what we have today that things get hidden in plain sight due to scene being to dark or bright.

But of course the effect will need both a good panel and content. Some "HDR" panel and content are very light on the contrast ratio.

Yes, as Svennoj experimented in GT Sport for example. I think it's something I can notice, but if I have the good panel and content as you said.

 

John2290 said:

Of course there is, the luminosity is the main focus for me and trumps all else. Having three different light scoures or more crossing each other in Metro Exodus and one seemingly blinding you yet still being able to see the environment as if through the light rays in Metro Exodus Is crazy cool. I don't know much about colour blindness but surely having bmmore natural lighting scoures with a wider range from black to full luminosity would have to be a boon for the colour blind more than anyone else, No?

Yes, it's still a better option, I suppose, even if the gain is much less than a person with normal vision. Does the lumen power of a panel depends on its HDR capabilities ?

 

For explaining color blindness, pictures are better than words :

https://hitek.fr/42/vision-des-couleurs-daltoniens_4682

(scroll down to examples)

In my case, it's a deuteranomaly, and I can't see any difference between a deuteranomaly picture and a normal vision picture.

Thus, about color perception from HDR, I'm not sure that I can see the difference with a No-HDR display.

To clarify HDR is not about color, it's all contrast and brightness. Wide color gamut and 10 bit color are separate things.
More bits means less color banding, 1024 steps for each color instead of 256. Gradients look more smooth no matter what color.

HDR is all about brightness range. Normal tvs range from 0 to 50 nits, HDR expands this logarithmically to max 1500 nits on current tvs, while GTS has the option to go up to 10,000 nits for max brightness. For comparison a clear bright sunny day is about 30,000 nits.

Color depends on what the content was made for. Rec.709, DCI-P3 or rec.2020. GTS is made for rec.2020 however most tvs can't quite reproduce DCI-P3 yet.

The full spectrum represents human vision.
As you can see wide color is determined by brighter primary colors allowing for better coverage of the human spectrum. Since you have trouble with reds and greens you will lose out on most of the benefits of a wide color gamut. Blue gets the least advantage of the wider color gamut.



NobleTeam360 said:
Eh, it's nice but it's not mind-blowing for me. I could live without it tbh.

Ya, one could go back but playing games (at least games that aim for realism, TPS and FPS etc) in non HDR, everything is washed out but mostly it's the lighting, the lighting in games is terrible, you have maybe two modes where you wither see bright areas or dark areas and no inbetween. In HDR you see various levels of brightness all in one scene (Like half a dozen or more) with all light scources existing together without canceling each other out or having contrast and black levels raised. Lighting never falters with this tech, not once but in non HDR lighting shifts and alters to accomedate the contrast. Sure I can go back and forget about it, let my brain accustom to old lighting again in the same way I could play a ps3 game but it's a much lesser experience. After Metro my eyes are opened, playing that game without HDR on is like playing Fallout new Vegas compared to fallout 4 with it's terrible lighting indoors. Even with 4k, only after a few months of it, it's so hard to go back to 1080p with all it's aliasing caused by lack of pixels and lack of detail and real estate on screen and I was one saying the difference was minimal the last two or three years. 

Check to luminosity of your panel to see if you are getting the full wallop for your money, My mates computer monitor is HDR and it's a lot less impactful than my TV and then again his QLED TV blows mine out of the water.  



 

Everything in the above reply is my opinion, from my own perspective and not representative of reality outside of my own head!

-Android user, please be gentle with critique on my spelling.

John2290 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Eh, it's nice but it's not mind-blowing for me. I could live without it tbh.

Ya, one could go back but playing games (at least games that aim for realism, TPS and FPS etc) in non HDR, everything is washed out but mostly it's the lighting, the lighting in games is terrible, you have maybe two modes where you wither see bright areas or dark areas and no inbetween. In HDR you see various levels of brightness all in one scene (Like half a dozen or more) with all light scources existing together without canceling each other out or having contrast and black levels raised. Lighting never falters with this tech, not once but in non HDR lighting shifts and alters to accomedate the contrast. Sure I can go back and forget about it, let my brain accustom to old lighting again in the same way I could play a ps3 game but it's a much lesser experience. After Metro my eyes are opened, playing that game without HDR on is like playing Fallout new Vegas compared to fallout 4 with it's terrible lighting indoors. Even with 4k, only after a few months of it, it's so hard to go back to 1080p with all it's aliasing caused by lack of pixels and lack of detail and real estate on screen and I was one saying the difference was minimal the last two or three years. 

Check to luminosity of your panel to see if you are getting the full wallop for your money, My mates computer monitor is HDR and it's a lot less impactful than my TV and then again his QLED TV blows mine out of the water.  

It all depends on the content. GTS is the poster child for great HDR, yet this week Dragontrail: Seaside is the race I'm doing. The time of day and colors used on that track aren't really all that different between my 1080p tv and 4K HDR tv. Yeah the brake lights stand out in HDR but that's about it. Other tracks and time of day make much better use of HDR and wide color.

I haven't played metro yet, don't really feel like fps on a screen after experiencing it in VR. VR has ruined my appetite for most games :/ However the hassle and mediocre games in VR also keep me away from that. So I'm just racing until next gen... Perhaps I should just get it and maybe I'll get into it. I still have the remastered collection unopened on my shelf doh.