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Sam Harris Drops Patreon - Other Creators Follow

Forums - Politics Discussion - Sam Harris Drops Patreon - Other Creators Follow

Immersiveunreality said:
collint0101 said:

If conservatives have a problem with it they can create their own platform instead of relying on someone else's. The policies and rules are there Sargon probably should have read them before he decided to use the N word while having a conversation with a neo Nazi. The way I see this the right dug their own grave with this one if a baker has the right to deny customers based on his anti gay political beliefs then tech companies have the right to do the same to political ideas they don't agree with. After all these are private companies we're talking about they don't owe anyone anything and if the right doesn't like the way they're being treated then bye find a new home just like if vgchartz doesn't like this comment then they have every right to get rid of me and there's nothing I can do about it because I'm using their property

How do you come to the conclusion that only conservatives have a problem with it? 

I think you might be suprised how many people from your own political side are against the deplatforming of these people.

Conservatives are the ones that cry the loudest. Either way everyone deserves the right to speak but no one has the right to a megaphone



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StriderKiwi said:
collint0101 said:

My mind isn't made up and I'm probably way more open to economic conservatism than you would think but social conservatism feels toxic. Just take a second to think about the conversation being had here, people are actively defending a YouTuber that went on a racist rant while debating an alt righter, this is the hill people are willing to die on. Countless arguments along the lines of "well what about rappers" "why can't everyone say the n word" well how much do you want to be those same rappers would be gone in a heartbeat if they started ranting about Jews or made homophobic comments. Free speech is 1 thing but it seems like this anti sjw, pro free speech crowd doesn't understand that unless you're being physically attacked or arrested reactions to your shitty speech are just as valid as your shitty speech in the first place

"Racist rant while debating an alt righter"

As many have been arguing about prior, this is not the context. He was on a libertarian's stream. Some of the commenters were making anti-jew and other racist comments. Sargon decides to attack them by using their own language/rhetoric to demean them. I wouldn't have worded it the way he did, but to claim that's he's alt right like the people he regularly debates (as many incorrectly have been) is wrong.

Link to the full clip (came from an almost 2 hour stream)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5575decxWoI

The alt right hate Sargon because he regularly ridicules them, so they started a campaign to get him deplatformed. The transcript Patreon showed for their reasoning for banning him was what the alt right activists had spammed Patreon with, and it included parts cut out of his speech. Nick Monroe proved this.

My biggest issue with this is that there's blatant lies being spread and so many are quick to take an immediate stance because they judge the situation just by how it sounds. And THAT is what scares me. This type of decision making is what ruins innocent peoples lives. Think of how many people are getting falsely accused of something these day. They lose almost everything and even if the truth comes to light later, the liars go unpunished and there's no real redemption.

While I don't like James Gunn as a person, his political stances, and I found his tweets to be absolutely disgusting and beyond retarded to post, I did not want to see him fired, and I don't even like the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. Cernovich and his crew, though I can understand their reasoning, stooped too low in doing it, and frankly Disney had to have known the type of guy James was when they hired him. I don't buy his whole "That was X years ago, I'm a kids movie kind of guy now" thing but the firing was a corporate decision that now gives these mobs even more power.

These two situation aren't an exact 1 for 1 but there's still a lot in common and it's disheartening to see people buck principle for tribalism.

My opinions on this apply to everyone, it has nothing to do with tribalism if you are on someone else's platform you play by their rules simple as that. If someone shows up at a church or a nra meeting or some other typically conservative event and starts talking about LGBT rights or Marxism they shouldn't be surprised when they get kicked out. Echo chambers are bad and they do not foster legitimate discussion but the sooner the radicals and outliers are kicked out and deplatformed the sooner politics can go back to being somewhat normal. No one should be forced to cater to people that use racist slurs they should be ignored to removed just like any other troll. I simply have 0 sympathy for Sargon and Lauren (replacement theory) southern and all of these other people being removed

Last edited by collint0101 - on 24 December 2018

collint0101 said: every

This is what conservatism has become. A bunch of people defending the right for someone to use racial slurs on the internet. I have nothing against Harris but fuck Sargon he isn't entitled to someone else's platform and if it were my site I would have 0 problem kicking his edgy borderline racist garbage off

"This is what conservatism has become. A bunch of people defending the right for someone to use racial slurs on the internet."

people in this thread have used the n word, are they racists? spokentruth couldn't answer this question of course

if concern over this idiocy is conservative then you appear to be implying that conservatives are more intelligent than whatever group you believe you belong to on the opposite side of them

if you can't see why nitpicking every little thing is not a smart move at all ( since i'm sure i could look back through your past and come up with some bullshit reason why you are problematic or your family ) then you need to wake up



o_O.Q said:
collint0101 said: every

This is what conservatism has become. A bunch of people defending the right for someone to use racial slurs on the internet. I have nothing against Harris but fuck Sargon he isn't entitled to someone else's platform and if it were my site I would have 0 problem kicking his edgy borderline racist garbage off

"This is what conservatism has become. A bunch of people defending the right for someone to use racial slurs on the internet."

people in this thread have used the n word, are they racists? spokentruth couldn't answer this question of course

if concern over this idiocy is conservative then you appear to be implying that conservatives are more intelligent than whatever group you believe you belong to on the opposite side of them

if you can't see why nitpicking every little thing is not a smart move at all ( since i'm sure i could look back through your past and come up with some bullshit reason why you are problematic or your family ) then you need to wake up

This idocy of not defending people that use racial. Yeah people should never any consequences for  the things they say.



collint0101 said:
o_O.Q said:

"This is what conservatism has become. A bunch of people defending the right for someone to use racial slurs on the internet."

people in this thread have used the n word, are they racists? spokentruth couldn't answer this question of course

if concern over this idiocy is conservative then you appear to be implying that conservatives are more intelligent than whatever group you believe you belong to on the opposite side of them

if you can't see why nitpicking every little thing is not a smart move at all ( since i'm sure i could look back through your past and come up with some bullshit reason why you are problematic or your family ) then you need to wake up

This idocy of not defending people that use racial. Yeah people should never any consequences for  the things they say.

Stop making an extreme out of everything, he can have consequences for it but it shouldn't be the ones you want.

The way you talk about conservatives seems you are too caught up into tribalism to see the whole picture.



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SpokenTruth said:
thismeintiel said:

The content is bad? It seems obvious to me what he is saying. As a black person, he knows that it isn't going to help other black people, intead it will do the opposite.

You could also read it as him saying the black people he knows won't help other black people.   I say that because I don't think he's black. 

Oh, I get it. He can't be black because he doesn't fit your narrow view of how black people should feel and think.

Not racist at all. /s



Immersiveunreality said:
collint0101 said:

This idocy of not defending people that use racial. Yeah people should never any consequences for  the things they say.

Stop making an extreme out of everything, he can have consequences for it but it shouldn't be the ones you want.

The way you talk about conservatives seems you are too caught up into tribalism to see the whole picture.

He's not even going to have consequences. long term this is a speed bump, he'll have to find a new way to fund himself but he still has his channel and his subscribers but 2 months from now he'll be saying the exact same stuff like this never even happen. 



My take on this: I do not consider Patreon to be any kind of threat to free speech. 



collint0101 said:
StriderKiwi said:

"Racist rant while debating an alt righter"

As many have been arguing about prior, this is not the context. He was on a libertarian's stream. Some of the commenters were making anti-jew and other racist comments. Sargon decides to attack them by using their own language/rhetoric to demean them. I wouldn't have worded it the way he did, but to claim that's he's alt right like the people he regularly debates (as many incorrectly have been) is wrong.

Link to the full clip (came from an almost 2 hour stream)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5575decxWoI

The alt right hate Sargon because he regularly ridicules them, so they started a campaign to get him deplatformed. The transcript Patreon showed for their reasoning for banning him was what the alt right activists had spammed Patreon with, and it included parts cut out of his speech. Nick Monroe proved this.

My biggest issue with this is that there's blatant lies being spread and so many are quick to take an immediate stance because they judge the situation just by how it sounds. And THAT is what scares me. This type of decision making is what ruins innocent peoples lives. Think of how many people are getting falsely accused of something these day. They lose almost everything and even if the truth comes to light later, the liars go unpunished and there's no real redemption.

While I don't like James Gunn as a person, his political stances, and I found his tweets to be absolutely disgusting and beyond retarded to post, I did not want to see him fired, and I don't even like the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. Cernovich and his crew, though I can understand their reasoning, stooped too low in doing it, and frankly Disney had to have known the type of guy James was when they hired him. I don't buy his whole "That was X years ago, I'm a kids movie kind of guy now" thing but the firing was a corporate decision that now gives these mobs even more power.

These two situation aren't an exact 1 for 1 but there's still a lot in common and it's disheartening to see people buck principle for tribalism.

My opinions on this apply to everyone, it has nothing to do with tribalism if you are on someone else's platform you play by their rules simple as that. If someone shows up at a church or a nra meeting or some other typically conservative event and starts talking about LGBT rights or Marxism they shouldn't be surprised when they get kicked out. Echo chambers are bad and they do not foster legitimate discussion but the sooner the radicals and outliers are kicked out and deplatformed the sooner politics can go back to being somewhat normal. No one should be forced to cater to people that use racist slurs they should be ignored to removed just like any other troll. I simply have 0 sympathy for Sargon and Lauren (replacement theory) southern and all of these other people being removed

Just be careful what you wish for. Seriously. You talk like the left own communications and will forever. What if the right starts their own platforms like you agree they should, and what if they do so well that they lead to the existing platforms becoming the minority if no longer relevant? It's happened many times in the past in other industries.

What about if the right ever has the same type of power and leverage over the large social media platforms and physical communication network that the left does now? What if they reinstate freedom of speech to a degree you couldn't imagine? When a far lefty complains and they get laughed at and told to beat it because 'we don't care what you think, our rules are simply our way or the highway, and we feel like your wrong today and everyday so too bad', are they supposed to just deal with it?

They could try to use other social media to create a cause to stop this madness, but those platforms will just shut them down as well because all those elite righty internet mob bosses will ban together and silence them. What then? Maybe they should complain to the Gov and push to enforce rules and regulations on those platforms because they aren't being nice and fair or inclusive enough?

The future belongs to those who look back and ahead, not to those who only live in the now. Why did XB cave when it came to Kinect and DRM and then launch XB1X? Why did PS launch Pro and VR and cave to cross play? Why is Switch a handheld-console hybrid with updated online capabilities? If any company had stuck to their guns based on their 'undeniably correct' past beliefs, they would be paying for it today. It's not always about what's specifically right or wrong in certain situations, it's sometimes about what's best for the majority overall. They say "if you give an inch they'll take a mile", but sometimes if you don't give that inch, when they eventually take that mile anyway, they'll decide to go an extra mile due to the inconvenience of the first.

Sometimes it's better to bend a little instead of being too stiff and breaking.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

o_O.Q said:
SpokenTruth said:

You could also read it as him saying the black people he knows won't help other black people.   I say that because I don't think he's black. 

yes of course because i don't ideologically resemble what you expect of black people 

which is of course fucking racist as fuck but you'll just ignore that of course

Actually, no.  I'll try to track down the thread but you said you were white in one of them.

o_O.Q said:

 

people in this thread have used the n word, are they racists? spokentruth couldn't answer this question of course

I did answer this.  Several times.  I said it's all about the context.  I'll repost it below:

"Uh, no.  Because black people using the word has a different meaning, purpose and function.  Again, context is crucial. 

Words take on different meaning depending on who says them.  In England, chips means the same thing as fries to an American yet chips to them mean crisps to the English.  This is imply meant to be an example of context of speaker. Here, it's a geographical divide that denotes context.  For the N-word, it's a racial divide that denotes context.

You're almost there.  The race of the user is part of the context.  It takes on a completely different connotation depending on who uses it and how.  See what I wrote above.

That said, of course it can used by white people under a set of given circumstances.  For social research, historical re-enactments, art,....again, context is crucial.  I keep saying that. "

thismeintiel said:
SpokenTruth said:

You could also read it as him saying the black people he knows won't help other black people.   I say that because I don't think he's black. 

Oh, I get it. He can't be black because he doesn't fit your narrow view of how black people should feel and think.

Not racist at all. /s

See above.  He alluded to being white in a prior thread.  I'm trying to find it.



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