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Jaxyfoo said:
When Britain first voted to leave, the EU offered two future relationships. Norway model, Canada model. On top of that there is WTO policy. Parliament should have first debated on whether the Norway model fulfils Brexit. Once that was in, everyone of these options should have been voted on, with the winner being the future model.

If that would have happened every person and company would know where they stand. Most of that framework could have been in place right now, with just the fine tuning left.

Instead the British people have been betrayed by the politicians and government. Theresa May has however bought a fourth option. It is time all 4 were offered in the meaningful vote. It is madness that soon the only options will be Mays deal and Remain will win against the vote by political shenanigans.

It does no longer matter how people voted. Unless the UK leaves the EU in March, for me Democracy is dead as A concept in the UK and I would never vote for a mainstream party again unless that happened. It is now more the principle than the policy.

I wouldn't be surprised, really. I predicted a while back that May deal is gonna be a disaster, and it was, by design. A push for a second referendum isn't out of the question at this point. The fear mongering machines are relentless. Talks of delaying brexit and a 2nd referendum are very much normalised at this point. 



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JRPGfan said:
EricHiggin said:

Yes. The EU will make things hard on the UK on purpose, to make an example of them. Hopefully is causes the UK to fold and remain, or exit and fail. If the other nations get out of line, they will know what they potentially face this way, so they are likely to stay put. If the EU cared about the UK and it's people and democracy, it would fold and make it easy for them, but they aren't. Who's the good guy and who's the bad guy?

Honestly the EU has been soft on the UK.
This deal is designed in the hopes that the UK takes it and stays rather than crash out in a hard brexit.

Im not sure where people get the idea that the EU is purposefully makeing a exsample out of them.

It's a really lousy deal that's why



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

This thread really is a mess...
You guys realise that "may's deal" only sets the temporary relationship between the UK and EU until the true new trade deal is signed. There are only two things certain with "may's deal", a) the UK will leave the EU as a active member and b) the UK won't cut off all it's relations with the EU and restart at WTO level. The new relationship between UK and EU after the real deal is signed still can be anything from the Norway model(unlikely) to the canada model.

personally Brexit showed me three things:
a) public votes that are only adviseral are a stupid and really undemocratic concept, you Brits should change that in your constitution.

b) the lack of basic global economic understanding amongst many Brexiters. All this talk about "we will make better trade deals without the EU" and "the commonwealth can replace the EU as a trade partner", what are you guys smoking on your little island? If you have to name one thing the EU is really good in, it has to be trade policy because it's the only policy field where the EU institutions can use the full might of the 21 trillion $ single market. This brings me to the last point.

c) the lack of basic understanding what the EU is, how it works and what it can and can't do. When you hear all the horror stories about the EU, it feels like pure irony that Brexiters call the campaign for remain "project fear".



I’m in so called “brexit group” working with our UK distributor and no matter the option, the cost of crashing out will be enormous! Not only that, but they'll most likely lose ability to provide next day service to our European customers and this is way bigger deal than any extra cost. At this point we know that a lot of jobs are on the line as it’d be much cheaper just to move our main UK DC to mainland Europe, considering that over 50% of sales come from EU countries, not to mention Japan (another huge chunk of our business) where at the moment we enjoy 0% tariffs on our goods. And this is not only them, but also their subcontractors and vendors. It's worth to mention that it is FTSE 250 company, and it is one of the biggest employers in the area.

Anyways, any deal with the considerable transitional period, could potentially save those jobs and people who bluntly claim that in the event of no deal, UK’s going to be just fine, never worked in supply chain.


Last edited by Kristof81 - on 16 December 2018

EricHiggin said:
Eagle367 said:

Or it could be the EU teaching the UK a lesson. Something like the EU saying, "You say we're a monster, so we're gonna show you what a real monster is". If the EU gave a good deal to the UK, it would mean the EU took the UK seriously and that would just be inviting other people to leave the EU. You gave a good deal to the Brits, so now it's our turn 

Yes. The EU will make things hard on the UK on purpose, to make an example of them. Hopefully is causes the UK to fold and remain, or exit and fail. If the other nations get out of line, they will know what they potentially face this way, so they are likely to stay put. If the EU cared about the UK and it's people and democracy, it would fold and make it easy for them, but they aren't. Who's the good guy and who's the bad guy?

This is a terrible point. Giving the UK the advantages it requests will give the UK a competitive advantage over the other EU countries. Why would they disadvantage existing members by offering the UK a deal that makes it the only non-EU state with perks only member states have? UK is leaving so why is it more democratic to help the UK to the detriment of current members, than to ensure a level playing field for all (remaining) members?



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LurkerJ said:

I wouldn't be surprised, really. I predicted a while back that May deal is gonna be a disaster, and it was, by design. A push for a second referendum isn't out of the question at this point. The fear mongering machines are relentless. Talks of delaying brexit and a 2nd referendum are very much normalised at this point. 

I don't know about that since it's the conservative party that holds nearly all of the keys. May and her own party will be especially crucial to blocking any possibility of a delay or a 2nd referendum ... 

May's party leadership was challenged because of brexit hardliners so almost all of the conservatives are in consensus of brexit one way or another ... (only 6 conservatives have voiced public support for the idea of a second referendum) 

Corbyn's party is indecisive and it still can't establish it's own position regarding brexit but most of all the leadership is likely stalling for time so they can win the next general election ... 

Corbyn's in a damned if he does or a damned if he doesn't position once his own party finds out his ideological line and there will be revolts in his own party which damage his own along with his party's chances at the next general election so basically May has set out a trap for him while he's out there stalling ... 



Helloplite said:
EricHiggin said:

Yes. The EU will make things hard on the UK on purpose, to make an example of them. Hopefully is causes the UK to fold and remain, or exit and fail. If the other nations get out of line, they will know what they potentially face this way, so they are likely to stay put. If the EU cared about the UK and it's people and democracy, it would fold and make it easy for them, but they aren't. Who's the good guy and who's the bad guy?

This is a terrible point. Giving the UK the advantages it requests will give the UK a competitive advantage over the other EU countries. Why would they disadvantage existing members by offering the UK a deal that makes it the only non-EU state with perks only member states have? UK is leaving so why is it more democratic to help the UK to the detriment of current members, than to ensure a level playing field for all (remaining) members?

seriously, the EU is looking for the interests of 400m people, why would they donate anything to the selfish UK?



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
Helloplite said:

This is a terrible point. Giving the UK the advantages it requests will give the UK a competitive advantage over the other EU countries. Why would they disadvantage existing members by offering the UK a deal that makes it the only non-EU state with perks only member states have? UK is leaving so why is it more democratic to help the UK to the detriment of current members, than to ensure a level playing field for all (remaining) members?

seriously, the EU is looking for the interests of 400m people, why would they donate anything to the selfish UK?

Don't tell such lies! the EU is just a bunch of bureaucratic monsters who rule Europe like Louis XIV. /s



The best thing to leave the EU would be to erect giant sails across the country and then move their asses across the Atlantic to where they actually wanna be.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
Helloplite said:

This is a terrible point. Giving the UK the advantages it requests will give the UK a competitive advantage over the other EU countries. Why would they disadvantage existing members by offering the UK a deal that makes it the only non-EU state with perks only member states have? UK is leaving so why is it more democratic to help the UK to the detriment of current members, than to ensure a level playing field for all (remaining) members?

seriously, the EU is looking for the interests of 400m people, why would they donate anything to the selfish UK?

Caring is sharing, no matter the race or gender or Country, etc, unless they want to physically harm you. Victims are also supposed to be supported and not torn down. Poor UK. The EU and Trump have more in common than it seems apparently...