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Your thoughts on the Next Ninty Console

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Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

My bad, XB1 operates at 1.75GHz.

Yeah, I know that, but ARM A57 was in Switch was heavily constrained buy 20nm, thats why has 4 core and operates at only 1GHz.

ARM A57 was designed for 20nm.

The issue with the Switch is that... It's not going to have short, bursty processing workloads.

For example, in a typical mobile device the A57 would clock up to 2ghz whenever there is demand and race back to idle... For example, you open up the browser and the CPU will clock to 2ghz during the initial load and then settle down to it's idle clocks, there isn't a need for the full clockrate when browsing a webpage.
This phenomenon is known as "race to idle" - Where you want the processing done as fast as possible so the chip can enter a power saving state.

The Switch on the other hand doesn't get that privilege... Video games, demanding video games will peg every single core at 100%, which means there will be significant power drain, it cannot race to idle because there is always more work to be done.
That's not a design issue with the Switch or the A57 or the node it's fundamentally on, that's just the nature of the processing load.

So Nintendo rightfully opted to limit clockrates and voltages so that power consumption will always be in check for CPU loads.

THAT is the real reason why the Switch's CPU's are at only 1ghz.


Miyamotoo said:
Thats just jump when you talk about same clock and some Core count, tell for instance about how much difference we talk only if Switch 2 uses for instance A76 6-Core CPU clocked at 2GHz compared to A57 4-Core 1GHz? And its safe to say that potentail Switch 2 will use more stronger CPU than A76.

I would be very surprised if the Switch 2 used anything less than a 6-core complex to be honest.

Whether the Switch will use A76 or a newer derivative is still up for debate though, nVidia has Denver remember, they might wish to push their own CPU design over ARM's direct architecture.

Miyamotoo said:
Like you wrote earlier, 8-Core ARM A57 at 1.7GHz would be very comparable to PS4/XB1 CPU. I was very clear that PS5/XB2 will again have stronger CPUs than Switch 2 in any case, I dont arguing that. But with all that on mind, Switch 2 could easily have stronger CPU than PS4/XB1 have, and IMO that would be enough to run 4K PS5/XB2 games at least 1080p in docked mode maybe even in 1440p with maybe some other downgrades, and that was my main point.

I think you might find that because of the large CPU performance delta between Xbox One/Playstation 4 and Xbox Two/Playstation 5, that the Switch 2 will struggle to get demanding ports, especially ports that leverage Ryzen to it's absolute fullest extent, that's not to say the Switch 2 won't get ports, it should get some, not every game is going to be running stupidly complex simulation on the CPU next gen... And the Switch 2 should get those if the developer/publisher bothers.

The jump from Jaguar to Ryzen is a significantly larger one than what you will get with Switch and Switch 2. - Nintendo simply lucked out as AMD didn't have a decent CPU for the consoles, let alone PC.

The Switch 2 should be able to match or exceed base the Xbox One/Playstation 4 CPU's. - By how much is yet to be determined for obvious reasons... The Xbox One X's CPU does muddle things though as it does offload some processing and has the highest clockrate.

Miyamotoo said:
Well that's my point, Tegra X2 would alow Switch to have higher CPU and GPU clocks than currently has, even higher memory bandwith (double compared to current one).

Indeed. Or Nintendo could have kept the same performance level and increased battery life substantially.
I am sure Nintendo had it's reasons for opting for the old chip that it did.

It's still a very capable device though at the end of the day, it just could have been that little bit more.

Miyamotoo said:
Switch has enough power to run some games at higher resolution than it does currently, but doesn't have enough CPU power to maintain probably even 20 FPS in that case. From specs reveal devs said that biggest bottleneck is A57 that has 3-cores available for games and operates at only 1GHz. Next biggest bottleneck is RAM bandwidth, when you look hole Switch configuration, GPU is biggest advance of Switch hardware and after that size of RAM.

I think you are trying to paint to much of a black and white scene.
Whether the CPU, GPU or Ram is the biggest limiter really comes down to the individual games themselves.

Some games will drive home the CPU loads more than others... Whilst other games will push the GPU harder.

Miyamotoo said:
I am pretty sure it will be, they several times said they considering Overwatch for Switch, probably it will be E3 announcement same Rocket League and Fortnite were.

It's just one of those games that just makes sense for the platform. - Plus Overwatch is not technically demanding anyway, it can run on a toaster... And even when downscaled to low visual settings still looks semi-decent thanks to blizzards atypical strong art style.


Well you have A57 at 28/20/16 and 14nm. Tegra X2 is 16nm and it includes A57 cores also.

I am very aware of that, same like fact that A57 throttles (same like Tegra GPU)  at higher speeds than 1.7/1.8GHz. But I already said that only reasons why Nintendo went with 1GHz and not for instance 1.5GHz are battery life and heating. But Tegra X2 and lower nm would allow them higher clokcs because we would have lower power consumption and power heating in any case.

 

 

Yeah, I also expecting at least 6-Core CPU for Switch 2, but my point is that we will talk about huge difference in any case compared to 4/3 Core A57 1GHz that operates in current Switch.

SoC that Switch 2 will have will most likely be adjusted much more to Nintendo needs and wishes, even if they again use already available chip from market, it will probably be much more customized than Tegra X1 in Switch has. Nintendo used available Tegra X1 because it was best suiting their needs for their first handheld, but with point that we will most likely have Switch 2 and Nintendo and Nvidia will have long term partnership, Nintendo and Nvidia will plan much better SoC for Switch 2.

 

 

From standpoint of games, I dont expecting huge jump in graphics on PS5/XB2 compared to PS4/XB1 games, I expecting little improved current gen games that will run at 4K resolution, so most of that power difference will go to much higher pixel count and maybe 60FPS that will devs maybe start pushing much more. So I do think that in plenty cases, Switch 2 will probably could run 4K PS5/XB2 games at least at 1080p maybe even at 1440p with some other cut backs (like lowered effects or maybe lower frame rate if we talking about some 60 FPS games..). Difference would be that 1080p or even 720p (for handheld mode maybe) sound much better compared what devs would need to with some current big games in order to run on current Switch where we have some AAA 3rd party games working below 720p (go down to 540p, 480p even to 360p in some sequences), because some devs just simple want cut so much resolution for their games and that their games run at those resolutions on big screen, but for instance 1080p is nice resolution in any case.

Probably will be larger jump, but Switch 2 will also have huge jump in CPU side in any case.

 

Well I guess its combination of points that Tegra X2 probably couldn't be ready on time for Switch and there were already some rumors that Nvidia had tons of unused Tegra X1 chips and that they apparently gave Nintendo very good offer.

Yeah, I mean it ending Win-Win situation for Nintendo and Nvidia, and Switch is doing its job.I am personally very interesting to see what Switch will have with its revisions, for instance Tegra X2 is very possible for Switch revisions, or would Nintendo go at lower NM with current Tegra X1 chip (that has less sense) that would allow them higher clocks.

 

I disagree, I just talking about objective look of Dev point of view when just he looks Switch specs, right away it obvious that CPU is biggest bottleneck followed by RAM bandwidth. But I agree that not all games are equally CPU or GPU intensive.

 

Yeah, I agree, especially because it seems that Diablo 3 is selling quite well so that will also push them more to bring Overwatch to Switch.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 03 December 2018

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Miyamotoo said:
Soundwave said:

PS4 Pro is probably in the range of being 30%+ of PS4 sales which is not a small amount. In Japan PS4 Pro and regular PS4 models are now selling almost 1:1. 

XBox One X has caused a huge shift in XBox One year over year sales and probably is also selling 1:1 or better than the base model despite being the most expensive game hardware SKU out there. 

There's simply not much of a chance Nintendo isn't going to follow suit. Not only do these models sell well to the point that they're causing upward trends in both the PS4 and XB1, they're also more profitable long term too, there was a report that Sony makes more money off the Pro model, because the cost of chips come down in price relatively quickly, but the higher price point then nets you a higher take home profit. 

As for whether 3rd parties would make a few games Pro only, I think it could happen if the system is cheap enough to port to. If its something that isn't a big damn pain in the ass to port and has a reasonable amount of power where they can outsource the port or have it done with a small team, probably for some titles you will see that done. Take2 just released a console quality "patch" for NBA2K19 on iPad that gives the game PS4/XB1 tier graphics and runs at 2K+ resolution at 60 frames per second. They did that for a version of the game that basically can only run on the new iPad Pro which is like $800. Doubling or tripling a mobile chip simply opens up more possibilities for game experiences. 

You will get your New 3DS/2DS etc. style revisions for Switch sure. But you will also get a Pro model. Nintendo is not ignoring that revenue stream and it's an option that's proven itself to be very popular with consumers and helps the bottom line of Sony and MS, Nintendo isn't going to ignore that. Looking at how Apple operates there was already the notion to do something like that anyway, but Sony/MS doing it with home consoles basically sealed the deal. It's not an either/or thing, the PS4 and XBox One have also gotten "smaller/cheaper" revisions like the PS4 Slim and XBox One S. It doesn't stop a Pro model from happening. 

But that doesn't mean that PS4 would sell 30% less without Pro model, only reason why Pro is selling currently 1:1 in Japan is because Pro had recently price cut in Japan.

I was very clear about, X is selling good because people are buying it like best 4K consoles for their 4K TVs, but that doesn't have anything with potential Switch Pro.

You ignoring fact that Nintendo was already doing similar thing, New 3DS or DSi are already some kind of 3DS and DS upgrades. Difference is that PS4 and XB1 were already strongest hardware on market and that bring more attention, also they bring 4K support (in case of PS4 Pro we talking about upscaled 4K).

Yeah, you could have few games, but expecting 8-15 bigger 3rd party games per year just for Pro is not realistic at all, we want have even 8 bigger 3rd party only for Switch LT, not per year. Point is that huge majority of 3rd party if want to release its game for Switch would rather want to release game that could be played hole Switch install base than just small part of it, if game cant run, they will not bother porting in on first place just one revision. But thats a point, iPad Pro maybe recived NBA2K19 patch, but point is that have also version of NBA2K19 game that works on previous iPad, while in case of Switch Pro you talking just about exclusive games not versions of games, you keep comparing potential Switch Pro with PS4 Pro/X and iPad Pro, while you ignoring fact that all games for those devices runing on base version of those devices also.

We will see if we will get Pro or New Switch revision and we probbably talking about same thing, because New 3DS or DSi are something similar what Pro is for base PS4, and offcourse that Nintendo was never ignored higher revenue stream, we have New 3DS and we have New 3DS XL, so there is no reason so to pretend like Nintendo wanst doing that before. No one arguing that, what I arguing with you and some other people here, is because you expecting big number of big 3rd party games that would be released just for one Switch revision, and that's not realistic at all.

No, I think it's becoming clear the X and Pro models for XBox One and PS4 are industry changing additions. And I doubt Nintendo ignores that trend. 

We're seeing consoles in year 5 of their cycle when you should start seeing decline, and instead you're actually seeing zero decline and in the case of the XBox, you're seeing actual large uptick in sales. 

This is like someone coming up with a pill that a 60 year old can take that makes them appear like they're in their late 30s again ... that's not a small deal in the business of gaming. 

You will get your smaller/slimmer/moderate bump/different screen size Switch sure ... but the "Pro" equivalent to Switch is also (seperately) gonna happen too. And I'm not talking New 3DS. The XBox One S is basically the "New 3DS" of XBox One models, the XBox One X however is a different beast entirely, and it is what is primarily responsible for XBox One sales remaining not only steady but rising up. 

What Sony/MS have done with the Pro and X models is going to forever change the console industry. This is not a minor thing. 

Personally I think Nintendo is done with the old generational definition you have, so I think that's your hold up there is you can't imagine anything different. But PC has been doing this for 30 years, there is no "generational shift", games come as they please, and developers know full well a higher end game will initially only be available to certain portion of the overall PC base because not everyone is going to have the newest GPU. It's not that big of a deal. 

I know some people think the world would end or something if a console system adopted something similar, but it really wouldn't, it's just different, but people have problems grasping that. The minute you show them a 30 second trailer with an official product most of the time they end up going "I don't want that, that sounds terribl -- oh wait ... that looks kinda hot, I actually might buy that ... oh wow ... where do I preorder?".

Last edited by Soundwave - on 04 December 2018

Soundwave said:
Miyamotoo said:

But that doesn't mean that PS4 would sell 30% less without Pro model, only reason why Pro is selling currently 1:1 in Japan is because Pro had recently price cut in Japan.

I was very clear about, X is selling good because people are buying it like best 4K consoles for their 4K TVs, but that doesn't have anything with potential Switch Pro.

You ignoring fact that Nintendo was already doing similar thing, New 3DS or DSi are already some kind of 3DS and DS upgrades. Difference is that PS4 and XB1 were already strongest hardware on market and that bring more attention, also they bring 4K support (in case of PS4 Pro we talking about upscaled 4K).

Yeah, you could have few games, but expecting 8-15 bigger 3rd party games per year just for Pro is not realistic at all, we want have even 8 bigger 3rd party only for Switch LT, not per year. Point is that huge majority of 3rd party if want to release its game for Switch would rather want to release game that could be played hole Switch install base than just small part of it, if game cant run, they will not bother porting in on first place just one revision. But thats a point, iPad Pro maybe recived NBA2K19 patch, but point is that have also version of NBA2K19 game that works on previous iPad, while in case of Switch Pro you talking just about exclusive games not versions of games, you keep comparing potential Switch Pro with PS4 Pro/X and iPad Pro, while you ignoring fact that all games for those devices runing on base version of those devices also.

We will see if we will get Pro or New Switch revision and we probbably talking about same thing, because New 3DS or DSi are something similar what Pro is for base PS4, and offcourse that Nintendo was never ignored higher revenue stream, we have New 3DS and we have New 3DS XL, so there is no reason so to pretend like Nintendo wanst doing that before. No one arguing that, what I arguing with you and some other people here, is because you expecting big number of big 3rd party games that would be released just for one Switch revision, and that's not realistic at all.

No, I think it's becoming clear the X and Pro models for XBox One and PS4 are industry changing additions. And I doubt Nintendo ignores that trend. 

We're seeing consoles in year 5 of their cycle when you should start seeing decline, and instead you're actually seeing zero decline and in the case of the XBox, you're seeing actual large uptick in sales. This is like someone coming up with a pill that a 60 year old can take that makes them appear like they're in their late 30s again ... that's not a small deal in the business of gaming. 

You will get your smaller/slimmer/moderate bump/different screen size Switch sure ... but the "Pro" equivalent to Switch is also (seperately) gonna happen too. And I'm not talking New 3DS. The XBox One S is basically the "New 3DS" of XBox One models, the XBox One X however is a different beast entirely, and it is what is primarily responsible for XBox One sales remaining not only steady but rising up. 

What Sony/MS have done with the Pro and X models is going to forever change the console industry. This is not a minor thing. 

Personally I think Nintendo is done with the old generational definition you have, so I think that's your hold up there is you can't imagine anything different. But PC has been doing this for 30 years, there is no "generational shift", games come as they please, and developers know full well a higher end game will initially only be available to certain portion of the overall PC base because not everyone is going to have the newest GPU. It's not that big of a deal. 

I know some people think the world would end or something if a console system adopted something similar, but it really wouldn't, it's just different, but people have problems grasping that. The minute you show them a 30 second trailer with an official product most of the time they end up going "I don't want that, that sounds terribl -- oh wait ... that looks kinda hot, I actually might buy that ... oh wow ... where do I preorder?".

For home consoles yes, but what you fail to see is that Nintendo was already doing similar thing with DS and 3DS, DSi and New 3DS are also like some kind of mid gen upgrade, and with point that Switch is essentially handheld hardware, we could expect Nintendo will do something similar with Switch in any case and regardless PS4/XB1.

And Nintendo was very clear about how they want that Switch has longer life span than typical 6 years, but Nintendo already doing that with 3DS, 3DS was launch in March 2011. and in 3 months 3DS will be 8 full years on market.

New or Pro Switch will happen, but difference will be more similar to New 3DS than to PS4 Pro or especially Xbox One X. It point about context, point if PS4 pro is to offer 1440p resolution that could be upscaled to 4K TVs, point of Xbox One X is to offer native 4K resolution for 4K TVs for most of current gen games, while point of New/Pro Switch will most likely be little higher clocks and maybe memory bandwidth that will allow them to have higher resolution with games that have dynamic resolution and more stable frame rate, same like probably better battery life. No Xbox One S is not New 3DS, only improvement that S has is with GPU where clockspeed was raise from 853MHz to 914MHz, while New 3DS recived huge upgrade in CPU (double cores and much higher clocks), double amount of RAM memory and much more VRAM memory. Yeah, Xbox X is totally different beast, but point of that beast is 4K gaming, and that's reason why its selling so better, because 4K TVs are becoming mainstream and Xbox X is best 4K console, but that's totally different context to Switch, Switch is already in any case best and strongest handheld/hybrid (actually only handheld or hybrid, 3DS will be dead next year).

It will, but for home consoles, like wrote, you fail to see is that Nintendo was already doing similar thing with DS and 3DS, DSi and New 3DS are also like some kind of mid gen upgrade, and with point that Switch is essentially handheld hardware, we could expect Nintendo will do something similar with Switch in any case and regardless PS4/XB1.

Generational definition I talking about is not old, look just how much revisions only 3DS has and how long life span 3DS has, Nintendo definitely plans to do something similar with Switch.

 

Remember, Nintendo was talking about iOS or Android platforms like example for their next platform ("NX" that become Switch), where you have family of devices that are all part of one platform and all games running on all devices, and that's basically 3DS family also become. You keep bringing examples like PS4 Pro/Xbox X and iPad or Samsung tablets, but you ignoring fact that all games for those platforms works on every versions of those hardwares and in same time you talking about big number of big 3rd party exclusive games that would run only Switch Pro version only.

What I personally expecting from Switch revisions is that we will have:

-New (or less possible that name would be Pro, why would Nintendo used Sony naming when Nintendo has couple of its own for improved hardware) Switch that will have improved GPU/CPU clocks, maybe higher memory bandwidth and maybe even less possible more RAM memory, that would alow Switch to have higher resolution and better frame rate for games that cant hit 720p resolution in portable and that cant hit 1080p docked mode with better frame rate and maybe better battery life.

-Switch Pocket/Mini that would be low price option and handheld focused Switch, for instance around 5" screen and built in controls, just for handheld play.

-Switch TV is also possible, similar like Vita TV, It would essentially be just Switch hardware built in similar looking device like Dock (just smaller) of course without screen, battery, parts needed for handheld play, Joy Cons, Joy Con Grip...so basically just Switch SoC built in Dock and shipped with Pro Controller instead of Joycons (but it would have support for JoyCons).

-After that maybe we could have another upgrade for Switch.

 

Point of all those revisions is they all would support of around 99% Switch library of games, I mean you will always have few examples that wouldnt run on some revisions, I mean thats case even with 3DS/2DS.

After that we will have Switch 2, its very possible that Switch 2 games will be still be cross gen with Switch 1, offcourse on Switch 2 will look and run better.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 04 December 2018

A new technique for NVIDIA GPUs may make porting large games to the Switch's successor easier.

https://youtu.be/edYiCE0b8-c

Variable Rate Shading

It basically allows textures and shaders on individual surfaces to be reduced in resolution if they are seen as unnecessary at that moment, such as when the room is dark.
Such a technique introduces another element that can be be reduced on the fly to improve performance in addition to overall image resolution.

I don't think the Tegra X1 supports this new feature, but whatever is in the next gen version should support it.



h2ohno said:
A new technique for NVIDIA GPUs may make porting large games to the Switch's successor easier.

https://youtu.be/edYiCE0b8-c

Variable Rate Shading

It basically allows textures and shaders on individual surfaces to be reduced in resolution if they are seen as unnecessary at that moment, such as when the room is dark.
Such a technique introduces another element that can be be reduced on the fly to improve performance in addition to overall image resolution.

I don't think the Tegra X1 supports this new feature, but whatever is in the next gen version should support it.

Turing only. Tegra X1 is a few generations old Maxwell.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Miyamotoo said:
Soundwave said:

No, I think it's becoming clear the X and Pro models for XBox One and PS4 are industry changing additions. And I doubt Nintendo ignores that trend. 

We're seeing consoles in year 5 of their cycle when you should start seeing decline, and instead you're actually seeing zero decline and in the case of the XBox, you're seeing actual large uptick in sales. This is like someone coming up with a pill that a 60 year old can take that makes them appear like they're in their late 30s again ... that's not a small deal in the business of gaming. 

You will get your smaller/slimmer/moderate bump/different screen size Switch sure ... but the "Pro" equivalent to Switch is also (seperately) gonna happen too. And I'm not talking New 3DS. The XBox One S is basically the "New 3DS" of XBox One models, the XBox One X however is a different beast entirely, and it is what is primarily responsible for XBox One sales remaining not only steady but rising up. 

What Sony/MS have done with the Pro and X models is going to forever change the console industry. This is not a minor thing. 

Personally I think Nintendo is done with the old generational definition you have, so I think that's your hold up there is you can't imagine anything different. But PC has been doing this for 30 years, there is no "generational shift", games come as they please, and developers know full well a higher end game will initially only be available to certain portion of the overall PC base because not everyone is going to have the newest GPU. It's not that big of a deal. 

I know some people think the world would end or something if a console system adopted something similar, but it really wouldn't, it's just different, but people have problems grasping that. The minute you show them a 30 second trailer with an official product most of the time they end up going "I don't want that, that sounds terribl -- oh wait ... that looks kinda hot, I actually might buy that ... oh wow ... where do I preorder?".

For home consoles yes, but what you fail to see is that Nintendo was already doing similar thing with DS and 3DS, DSi and New 3DS are also like some kind of mid gen upgrade, and with point that Switch is essentially handheld hardware, we could expect Nintendo will do something similar with Switch in any case and regardless PS4/XB1.

And Nintendo was very clear about how they want that Switch has longer life span than typical 6 years, but Nintendo already doing that with 3DS, 3DS was launch in March 2011. and in 3 months 3DS will be 8 full years on market.

New or Pro Switch will happen, but difference will be more similar to New 3DS than to PS4 Pro or especially Xbox One X. It point about context, point if PS4 pro is to offer 1440p resolution that could be upscaled to 4K TVs, point of Xbox One X is to offer native 4K resolution for 4K TVs for most of current gen games, while point of New/Pro Switch will most likely be little higher clocks and maybe memory bandwidth that will allow them to have higher resolution with games that have dynamic resolution and more stable frame rate, same like probably better battery life. No Xbox One S is not New 3DS, only improvement that S has is with GPU where clockspeed was raise from 853MHz to 914MHz, while New 3DS recived huge upgrade in CPU (double cores and much higher clocks), double amount of RAM memory and much more VRAM memory. Yeah, Xbox X is totally different beast, but point of that beast is 4K gaming, and that's reason why its selling so better, because 4K TVs are becoming mainstream and Xbox X is best 4K console, but that's totally different context to Switch, Switch is already in any case best and strongest handheld/hybrid (actually only handheld or hybrid, 3DS will be dead next year).

It will, but for home consoles, like wrote, you fail to see is that Nintendo was already doing similar thing with DS and 3DS, DSi and New 3DS are also like some kind of mid gen upgrade, and with point that Switch is essentially handheld hardware, we could expect Nintendo will do something similar with Switch in any case and regardless PS4/XB1.

Generational definition I talking about is not old, look just how much revisions only 3DS has and how long life span 3DS has, Nintendo definitely plans to do something similar with Switch.

 

Remember, Nintendo was talking about iOS or Android platforms like example for their next platform ("NX" that become Switch), where you have family of devices that are all part of one platform and all games running on all devices, and that's basically 3DS family also become. You keep bringing examples like PS4 Pro/Xbox X and iPad or Samsung tablets, but you ignoring fact that all games for those platforms works on every versions of those hardwares and in same time you talking about big number of big 3rd party exclusive games that would run only Switch Pro version only.

What I personally expecting from Switch revisions is that we will have:

-New (or less possible that name would be Pro, why would Nintendo used Sony naming when Nintendo has couple of its own for improved hardware) Switch that will have improved GPU/CPU clocks, maybe higher memory bandwidth and maybe even less possible more RAM memory, that would alow Switch to have higher resolution and better frame rate for games that cant hit 720p resolution in portable and that cant hit 1080p docked mode with better frame rate and maybe better battery life.

-Switch Pocket/Mini that would be low price option and handheld focused Switch, for instance around 5" screen and built in controls, just for handheld play.

-Switch TV is also possible, similar like Vita TV, It would essentially be just Switch hardware built in similar looking device like Dock (just smaller) of course without screen, battery, parts needed for handheld play, Joy Cons, Joy Con Grip...so basically just Switch SoC built in Dock and shipped with Pro Controller instead of Joycons (but it would have support for JoyCons).

-After that maybe we could have another upgrade for Switch.

 

Point of all those revisions is they all would support of around 99% Switch library of games, I mean you will always have few examples that wouldnt run on some revisions, I mean thats case even with 3DS/2DS.

After that we will have Switch 2, its very possible that Switch 2 games will be still be cross gen with Switch 1, offcourse on Switch 2 will look and run better.

I don't think there will be a Switch 2 in the way you think, I think Switch Pro is basically Switch Gen 2, then in 2023-2024 what you'll get is actually the third Switch. And that will be a new thing for Nintendo but will better suit the Switch ecosystem in the long run. 

Most games will be playable on between Switch/Switch Pro but Nintendo won't stop 3rd parties from making Pro only games if they want. 

What will be the net result of embracing this style of hardware ecosystem will be bigger profits for Nintendo and just as importantly you won't see the collapse in hardware shipments in year 4/5/6 that plague most Nintendo systems. The "Pro/X" model is the fountain of youth for game systems, it reinvigorates a console platform in a way smaller upgrades or "mini consoles" can't. And that means more $$$, which is what Nintendo is looking at, not at "well this is going to upset some guy on a gaming message board". 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 04 December 2018

Soundwave said:
Miyamotoo said:

For home consoles yes, but what you fail to see is that Nintendo was already doing similar thing with DS and 3DS, DSi and New 3DS are also like some kind of mid gen upgrade, and with point that Switch is essentially handheld hardware, we could expect Nintendo will do something similar with Switch in any case and regardless PS4/XB1.

And Nintendo was very clear about how they want that Switch has longer life span than typical 6 years, but Nintendo already doing that with 3DS, 3DS was launch in March 2011. and in 3 months 3DS will be 8 full years on market.

New or Pro Switch will happen, but difference will be more similar to New 3DS than to PS4 Pro or especially Xbox One X. It point about context, point if PS4 pro is to offer 1440p resolution that could be upscaled to 4K TVs, point of Xbox One X is to offer native 4K resolution for 4K TVs for most of current gen games, while point of New/Pro Switch will most likely be little higher clocks and maybe memory bandwidth that will allow them to have higher resolution with games that have dynamic resolution and more stable frame rate, same like probably better battery life. No Xbox One S is not New 3DS, only improvement that S has is with GPU where clockspeed was raise from 853MHz to 914MHz, while New 3DS recived huge upgrade in CPU (double cores and much higher clocks), double amount of RAM memory and much more VRAM memory. Yeah, Xbox X is totally different beast, but point of that beast is 4K gaming, and that's reason why its selling so better, because 4K TVs are becoming mainstream and Xbox X is best 4K console, but that's totally different context to Switch, Switch is already in any case best and strongest handheld/hybrid (actually only handheld or hybrid, 3DS will be dead next year).

It will, but for home consoles, like wrote, you fail to see is that Nintendo was already doing similar thing with DS and 3DS, DSi and New 3DS are also like some kind of mid gen upgrade, and with point that Switch is essentially handheld hardware, we could expect Nintendo will do something similar with Switch in any case and regardless PS4/XB1.

Generational definition I talking about is not old, look just how much revisions only 3DS has and how long life span 3DS has, Nintendo definitely plans to do something similar with Switch.

 

Remember, Nintendo was talking about iOS or Android platforms like example for their next platform ("NX" that become Switch), where you have family of devices that are all part of one platform and all games running on all devices, and that's basically 3DS family also become. You keep bringing examples like PS4 Pro/Xbox X and iPad or Samsung tablets, but you ignoring fact that all games for those platforms works on every versions of those hardwares and in same time you talking about big number of big 3rd party exclusive games that would run only Switch Pro version only.

What I personally expecting from Switch revisions is that we will have:

-New (or less possible that name would be Pro, why would Nintendo used Sony naming when Nintendo has couple of its own for improved hardware) Switch that will have improved GPU/CPU clocks, maybe higher memory bandwidth and maybe even less possible more RAM memory, that would alow Switch to have higher resolution and better frame rate for games that cant hit 720p resolution in portable and that cant hit 1080p docked mode with better frame rate and maybe better battery life.

-Switch Pocket/Mini that would be low price option and handheld focused Switch, for instance around 5" screen and built in controls, just for handheld play.

-Switch TV is also possible, similar like Vita TV, It would essentially be just Switch hardware built in similar looking device like Dock (just smaller) of course without screen, battery, parts needed for handheld play, Joy Cons, Joy Con Grip...so basically just Switch SoC built in Dock and shipped with Pro Controller instead of Joycons (but it would have support for JoyCons).

-After that maybe we could have another upgrade for Switch.

 

Point of all those revisions is they all would support of around 99% Switch library of games, I mean you will always have few examples that wouldnt run on some revisions, I mean thats case even with 3DS/2DS.

After that we will have Switch 2, its very possible that Switch 2 games will be still be cross gen with Switch 1, offcourse on Switch 2 will look and run better.

I don't think there will be a Switch 2 in the way you think, I think Switch Pro is basically Switch Gen 2, then in 2023-2024 what you'll get is actually the third Switch. And that will be a new thing for Nintendo but will better suit the Switch ecosystem in the long run. 

Most games will be playable on between Switch/Switch Pro but Nintendo won't stop 3rd parties from making Pro only games if they want. 

What will be the net result of embracing this style of hardware ecosystem will be bigger profits for Nintendo and just as importantly you won't see the collapse in hardware shipments in year 4/5/6 that plague most Nintendo systems. The "Pro/X" model is the fountain of youth for game systems, it reinvigorates a console platform in a way smaller upgrades or "mini consoles" can't. And that means more $$$, which is what Nintendo is looking at, not at "well this is going to upset some guy on a gaming message board". 

Nah, I mean you will have PS5/XB2 despite Pro and X, simple Switch 2 will be much bigger difference and much stronger SoC compare to current one, in one point they will have bigger much difference compared to upgrades in any case and that will be next gen, same like PS5/XB2 will again be next gen compared to Pro and X.

Even if Nintendo dont stop huge majority of 3rd party wouldnt want to release game that could be played only small part of install base of some platform.

Switch is not typical Nintendo system, they now have full support just for one platform, they will have multiple versions, addons and price cuts. You again ignoring context, it not just point to offer stronger hardware, its point what that stronger brings, like I wrote PS4 Pro brought 1440p that scales very nice to 4K TV, X offers full 4K resolution for most of current gent games, what exactly would be point of Switch Pro, just stronger hardware and nothing more? In long run, it will be far more important for Switch to have lower price point instead of more price one, dont forget Nintendo said they want Switch to sell like device per person instead of device per house, but that price point is not still there.