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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why is the Switch still not getting big games from 3rd parties? October edition

Megiddo said:
TheLegendaryWolf said:

Not enough power is an easy excuse, considering this was a thing...

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81OT-Cgy6GL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

COD: Black Ops on DS

DS was around 130 million units sold when that was released, right? I'm sure if the Switch comes anywhere near those numbers it'll get a CoD release.

I am sure Switch will get some CoD game before comes anywhere near those numbers. :)



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BlackBeauty said:

Nah it won’t be a problem anymore with streaming coming.

AC, Resident Evil 7 are already available in japan for example.

I’m expecting Red Dead 2, The next Skyrim, Starfield, Cyberpunk and GTA6 will all be available on switch in the next years.

 

You guys can save this post for future reference. Thx.

Just asking, how can you be so sure?



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


RolStoppable said:
Because third parties are biased against Nintendo. When you look through the generations and see that Nintendo can never please third parties no matter what they do while Sony and Microsoft can mess up all they want and still get the games, then it's time to accept that there's a double standard at work.

It's the price that Nintendo is paying for altering the course of history, effectively making consoles here to stay with a royalty model while the various home computers bit the dust. Of course this altered history only concerns North America and Europe, but not Japan. So the third party support for Switch from Japan has improved because of hardware sales.

If somebody thinks this is a conspiracy theory, they should read up on the history of Electronic Arts and the Sega Genesis. EA didn't like that Nintendo changed the gaming market into something very different than EA had envisioned, but that didn't mean that they would reject consoles altogether. Trip Hawkins saw Sega and its Genesis as an opportunity to beat Nintendo, essentially "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." - That's something that persists to this day, because Nintendo doesn't fall in line with the vision of those AAA third party publishers who want everything to be games as a service, filled with microtransactions and other shenanigans. Switch in general represents the opposite of the ideals of AAA publishers, so supporting it would mean to stifle their vision of what gaming should turn into. The only big Western publisher who is bringing a good number of its games to Switch is Bethesda who just so happens to be the one publisher who didn't forecast the death of single-player games.
vivster said: 
Big companies are biased against Nintendo. They're jealous of their success.

Can you elaborate more on this theory? Any articles or anything where I could find out more about it?



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


Miyamotoo said:
spurgeonryan said:

The Switch is not even getting COD, even the Wii U got COD. What is the reasoning for this now?

 

Has Nintendo explained why this is still happening?

Its true that Switch still dont has CoD while Wii U had two CoD games, on other hand Wii U had only Fifa and only one NBA games for instance while Switch already has two Fifa and NBA games, and same games like Skyrim, Doom, Wolf2, Dark Souls, Diablo 3, CiV6, like 8 Final Fantasy games announced...that Wii U never had. So, Switch is getting continued 3rd party support from 3rd party even that 3rd party support is still much weaker compared to XB1/PS4, and we will have more and more similar announcements and support, asome noticeable games that Switch recently received/receiving, Fortnite, Paladins, Crash Bandicoot, Cities: Skylines, Arena of Valor, Valkyria Chronicles 1/4, Warriors Orochi 4, Warframe,  Dragon Ball FighterZ, Fifa 19, NBA 19, Diablo 3, CiV6, Starlink, Team Sonic Racing..

Also, when we talking about really big 3rd party games like RDR2, CoD, AC, BF...those games require plenty of development time, all those games were in development even before become obvious that Switch will be success with strong install base. I dont saying we could see all those games on Switch, but some big 3rd party games could come to Switch, for instance CoD.

 

Why would Nintendo even try explained point that plenty of 3rd parties dont come to Switch!? Its very obvious that from plenty of aspects Switch is a quite difrent compared to XB1/PS4, not to mentione its not like first time that Nintendo dont have full 3rd party support, they didnt had full 3rd party support after SNES. So implying that Nintendo should explained that dont make sense.

Although your comparison is fair, it'd be fairer if you could make a comparison with 2018 releases on all platforms. Skyrim, Dark Souls, Diablo 3 and FF are very old games. These games could get an iPhone release at this point if they haven't yet.

Besides games like Fortnite and Minecraft, that many are pointing out, are games that have been released on everything, like phones, toasters and fridges and such. If those games weren't on Switch that would be an awful fail for Nintendo. They don't count as third party showcases in my opinion.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


Dante9 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

 

I believe the OP said that big third party games are nearly non-existent on the Switch.  Hold on lemme check.


Yep, that's what the OP said.  And he has a point.  If you really want to play CoD, then Switch is not going to make you happy.  On the other hand if you want to play a game like Civ 6, then Switch will make you very happy.  It depends on taste.  

I personally don't play FPS games, so when I look at the PS4 the library, it looks barren to me.  I know logically that it huge library of games.  It just has nothing for me.  On the other hand I really like turn based strategy games like Civ 6.  But I can understand that the OP might be the opposite.  Maybe he doesn't like strategy games, but really needs the latest FPS or open world third-person shooter.  So to the OP, it looks like Switch has no big games compared to the other consoles.  It's really a matter of taste.

That's a weird statement. Do you think that the PS4 is some kind of an FPS haven? Sure, it gets all the big FPS titles but those are a miniscule portion of all the games. The PS library is actually the most diverse and expansive of the three, so if you can't find anything of interest in there, it's just a bias that you have. And that's fine, I'm all about single platform gaming as well, but let's not distort things here. That's like me saying Nintendo has nothing for me, because it seems to be mostly FPS games like Doom and whatnot :D

I can see why you misunderstand my point, so let me try to say it more clearly.

The focus of the PS4 library is different from the Switch library.  One genre where you can see this is FPS.  The PS4 has a much better selection of FPS games than the Switch does.  For a person who has FPS as their favorite genre, they are going to look at Switch and say, "it's got no games".  I mean it technically does have some FPS games, but PS4 (and XB1) have a much better selection.  On the other hand a person who really likes 2D platformers might look at the PS4 and say "it's got no games".  I mean I'm sure it probably does have some, but Switch is a better console for 2D platformers.

So, it all comes down to taste.  The OP doesn't consider Civ 6 a big release, because he will probably never play Civ 6.  I personally don't care about CoD, because I don't like FPS, but I really love great turn based strategy games like Civ.  The whole topic of this thread is subjective anyway.

If we were talking about objective things like sales numbers (hardware or software), then we wouldn't be talking about third parties only.  Obviously Nintendo has big first party games coming out this holiday that the other consoles don't have.  But since we are just talking about "big third party" games, then it's subjective.  CoD isn't big to me, but Civ 6 is.  The OP sees things differently and that is ok too, as long as we all see that it's subjective.

Last edited by The_Liquid_Laser - on 17 October 2018

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0D0 said:
Miyamotoo said:

Its true that Switch still dont has CoD while Wii U had two CoD games, on other hand Wii U had only Fifa and only one NBA games for instance while Switch already has two Fifa and NBA games, and same games like Skyrim, Doom, Wolf2, Dark Souls, Diablo 3, CiV6, like 8 Final Fantasy games announced...that Wii U never had. So, Switch is getting continued 3rd party support from 3rd party even that 3rd party support is still much weaker compared to XB1/PS4, and we will have more and more similar announcements and support, asome noticeable games that Switch recently received/receiving, Fortnite, Paladins, Crash Bandicoot, Cities: Skylines, Arena of Valor, Valkyria Chronicles 1/4, Warriors Orochi 4, Warframe,  Dragon Ball FighterZ, Fifa 19, NBA 19, Diablo 3, CiV6, Starlink, Team Sonic Racing..

Also, when we talking about really big 3rd party games like RDR2, CoD, AC, BF...those games require plenty of development time, all those games were in development even before become obvious that Switch will be success with strong install base. I dont saying we could see all those games on Switch, but some big 3rd party games could come to Switch, for instance CoD.

 

Why would Nintendo even try explained point that plenty of 3rd parties dont come to Switch!? Its very obvious that from plenty of aspects Switch is a quite difrent compared to XB1/PS4, not to mentione its not like first time that Nintendo dont have full 3rd party support, they didnt had full 3rd party support after SNES. So implying that Nintendo should explained that dont make sense.

Although your comparison is fair, it'd be fairer if you could make a comparison with 2018 releases on all platforms. Skyrim, Dark Souls, Diablo 3 and FF are very old games. These games could get an iPhone release at this point if they haven't yet.

Besides games like Fortnite and Minecraft, that many are pointing out, are games that have been released on everything, like phones, toasters and fridges and such. If those games weren't on Switch that would be an awful fail for Nintendo. They don't count as third party showcases in my opinion.

My comparison was simply with Wii U (because OP used that comparison) and with past Nintendo platforms, not with XB1 and PS4. You will not see games like DarkSouls, Diablo3, Doom, Wolf2.. on iPhone, and you can bet that Rocket League and Fortnite (they offcourse count like support) and most games I mentioned would never be released on Wii U.



potato_hamster said:
RolStoppable said:
Because third parties are biased against Nintendo. When you look through the generations and see that Nintendo can never please third parties no matter what they do while Sony and Microsoft can mess up all they want and still get the games, then it's time to accept that there's a double standard at work.

It's the price that Nintendo is paying for altering the course of history, effectively making consoles here to stay with a royalty model while the various home computers bit the dust. Of course this altered history only concerns North America and Europe, but not Japan. So the third party support for Switch from Japan has improved because of hardware sales.

If somebody thinks this is a conspiracy theory, they should read up on the history of Electronic Arts and the Sega Genesis. EA didn't like that Nintendo changed the gaming market into something very different than EA had envisioned, but that didn't mean that they would reject consoles altogether. Trip Hawkins saw Sega and its Genesis as an opportunity to beat Nintendo, essentially "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." - That's something that persists to this day, because Nintendo doesn't fall in line with the vision of those AAA third party publishers who want everything to be games as a service, filled with microtransactions and other shenanigans. Switch in general represents the opposite of the ideals of AAA publishers, so supporting it would mean to stifle their vision of what gaming should turn into. The only big Western publisher who is bringing a good number of its games to Switch is Bethesda who just so happens to be the one publisher who didn't forecast the death of single-player games.

All you mean Nintendo's policy of price-gouging third parties and limiting the number of titles they could release on NES/SNES per year while not limiting the number of titles they published themselves? Or maybe it was when they started to censor what kind of content third party developers could publish on their platform to a point where Mortal Kombat games couldn't even feature blood? Those kinds of things Nintendo thought they could get away with when they were the only real option. Is that the kind of "bias against Nintendo" you're referring to? And it's not like it got any better from there. Just look into Nintendo's history with Argonaut games.

Third parties never liked working with Nintendo, they've always been by far the most difficult to work, the most anal about shit that really doesn't matter. Getting a game certified by Nintendo was like pulling teeth. Third parties worked with Nintendo for the NES because they had little other choice. it was the only real viable platform at the time. But when other first parties like Sega, Sony and Microsoft gave third parties viable options to work with, third parties didn't have to put up with Nintendo's shit anymore, so they didn't. It's taken over 20 years, but Nintendo's finally started to lighten up and be more willing to work with third parties, but you know, it's a bit late.

TL;DR Nintendo were giant dicks and no one wanted to work with them, not the other way around.

Nintendo witnessed what the open-door/free-for-all policies of Atari did for the 2600 and the North American gaming market in the early-mid 80's.  They needed to enforce strict policies in order to break into the NA market and restore consumer confidence in video games period.  They knew the market was so shaky, they were very careful to call it an "Entertainment System" and snuck the thing in with R.O.B. for crying out loud.  But, sure let's just pretend they wanted to be dicks just to be dicks.

By the way, my favorite localization company back in the day, Working Designs, literally went out of business waiting for Sony to approve their games for release.  NIS America recently also stated that Sony really only caters to the big AAA third party publishers.  So, I guess shitty practices towards 3rd parties are okay, just as long as it's the little guys getting shafted, right?



Switch can't handle it.



potato_hamster said:
RolStoppable said:
Because third parties are biased against Nintendo. When you look through the generations and see that Nintendo can never please third parties no matter what they do while Sony and Microsoft can mess up all they want and still get the games, then it's time to accept that there's a double standard at work.

It's the price that Nintendo is paying for altering the course of history, effectively making consoles here to stay with a royalty model while the various home computers bit the dust. Of course this altered history only concerns North America and Europe, but not Japan. So the third party support for Switch from Japan has improved because of hardware sales.

If somebody thinks this is a conspiracy theory, they should read up on the history of Electronic Arts and the Sega Genesis. EA didn't like that Nintendo changed the gaming market into something very different than EA had envisioned, but that didn't mean that they would reject consoles altogether. Trip Hawkins saw Sega and its Genesis as an opportunity to beat Nintendo, essentially "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." - That's something that persists to this day, because Nintendo doesn't fall in line with the vision of those AAA third party publishers who want everything to be games as a service, filled with microtransactions and other shenanigans. Switch in general represents the opposite of the ideals of AAA publishers, so supporting it would mean to stifle their vision of what gaming should turn into. The only big Western publisher who is bringing a good number of its games to Switch is Bethesda who just so happens to be the one publisher who didn't forecast the death of single-player games.

All you mean Nintendo's policy of price-gouging third parties and limiting the number of titles they could release on NES/SNES per year while not limiting the number of titles they published themselves? Or maybe it was when they started to censor what kind of content third party developers could publish on their platform to a point where Mortal Kombat games couldn't even feature blood? Those kinds of things Nintendo thought they could get away with when they were the only real option. Is that the kind of "bias against Nintendo" you're referring to? And it's not like it got any better from there. Just look into Nintendo's history with Argonaut games.

Third parties never liked working with Nintendo, they've always been by far the most difficult to work, the most anal about shit that really doesn't matter. Getting a game certified by Nintendo was like pulling teeth. Third parties worked with Nintendo for the NES because they had little other choice. it was the only real viable platform at the time. But when other first parties like Sega, Sony and Microsoft gave third parties viable options to work with, third parties didn't have to put up with Nintendo's shit anymore, so they didn't. It's taken over 20 years, but Nintendo's finally started to lighten up and be more willing to work with third parties, but you know, it's a bit late.

TL;DR Nintendo were giant dicks and no one wanted to work with them, not the other way around.

At the same time, didn't Sony have a lot of restrictions for devs already by the time the PS2 came around? I specifically remember hearing about how Sony tried to enforce restrictions so that third parties wouldn't put their games onto other consoles, and one of the restrictions actually ended up biting them in the ass because it made Rockstar put more effort into their GTA port for Xbox, which made them the superior versions.

Really, I think the biggest reason is sales. By the time Playstation started fucking up in a lot of the same ways as Nintendo (with both of them having their 3rd home consoles being disasters), Playstation was too big of a brand worldwide to lose third parties entirely. It had Europe on lockdown, was very competitive in Japan and America, and it essentially owned the world. If it was just about how many problems one company had, PS3 wouldn't have ended the generation having caught up with Xbox 360. 



RolStoppable said:
potato_hamster said:

All you mean Nintendo's policy of price-gouging third parties and limiting the number of titles they could release on NES/SNES per year while not limiting the number of titles they published themselves? Or maybe it was when they started to censor what kind of content third party developers could publish on their platform to a point where Mortal Kombat games couldn't even feature blood? Those kinds of things Nintendo thought they could get away with when they were the only real option. Is that the kind of "bias against Nintendo" you're referring to? And it's not like it got any better from there. Just look into Nintendo's history with Argonaut games.

Third parties never liked working with Nintendo, they've always been by far the most difficult to work, the most anal about shit that really doesn't matter. Getting a game certified by Nintendo was like pulling teeth. Third parties worked with Nintendo for the NES because they had little other choice. it was the only real viable platform at the time. But when other first parties like Sega, Sony and Microsoft gave third parties viable options to work with, third parties didn't have to put up with Nintendo's shit anymore, so they didn't. It's taken over 20 years, but Nintendo's finally started to lighten up and be more willing to work with third parties, but you know, it's a bit late.

TL;DR Nintendo were giant dicks and no one wanted to work with them, not the other way around.

Since your rebuttal closes with the admission that third parties hold a grudge against Nintendo and that being the reason why certain AAA publishers don't bother with Switch, there's not really much else I need to say. Not making games because of a grudge falls in the category of bias.

I don't have pity for third parties getting put restrictions of them, because American third parties crashed the American video game market by flooding it with shitty and buggy games. Nintendo's restrictions in the 1980s made success in the business a matter of quality, because quantity wasn't allowed. This gave rise to Japanese developers in a sustainable console market, so of course certain Americans were angry at Nintendo, just like certain Americans were incredibly upset when Japan conquered the American car market. Gamers don't look at those restrictions as something negative, because the results speak for themselves; we got great consoles with awesome games.

Is this a language thing? Nintendo "lightening up" doesn't mean "third parties hold grudges". Not even a little bit. These companies aren't discriminating against Nintendo at all. "Third parties are hesitant to invest in a platform that proves time and time again ti's difficult to develop for and make money on. It's much easier to make money on Sony and Microsoft platforms. They're much easier to work with, they actually support third parties. It requires less effort, less money and less dicking around playing patty-cake bullshit to make a game for a Sony or Microsoft platform.  That's a fact. And yes, it is Nintendo's problem that they continuously fail to deliver a platform that requires so much work to port multi-platform games on. Even the publishers that are supporting Nintendo like Ubisoft and Bethesda are only releasing a fraction of their multi-platform titles. Why? Because it's not worth the effort.

Those restrictions on limiting the number of games of censoring content to a rather extreme degree didn't make the games better. All it did was make publishers more creative and create new publishing labels to appease Nintendo. You're still not understanding that Nintendo were such a pain in the ass that the first chance that developers had to put their games on a competitive platform almost all of them jumped ship and abandoned Nintendo as a main development platform overnight. Did EA and Activision or Squaresoft or Capcom or Konami start flooding  Sony  and Sega platforms with garbage titles? Nope. They just closed up all the pseudo-publishing labels Nintendo forced them to make and kept on trucking. But keep perpetuating that myth.