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Forums - Movies & TV - Update: Latest rumor shows casting for a white Ciri | Original: Netflix looking for non-white actress to play Ciri in the Witcher tv series

deskpro2k3 said:
Faelco said:

Other people quoted the books though, and it clearly said that she's white... 

I assume people are quoting this?

From Sword of Destiny page 416. “She had fair hair, ashen white complexion and large impetuous green eyes”

Let me break it down for those people to understand:

"fair hair - ashen white complexion" and "Impetuous green eyes". So where does it say anything about being white?

in other versions (Gollancz, with the cover illustration made by Alejandro Colucci) this quote is 'She had fair, mousy hair and huge glaringly green eyes.' English audiobook has the same exact quote 'She had fair hair, mouse-gray, and large impetuous eyes'.

I'm on the side that this is a non issue, but I fail to understand your argument, and I think people responding to you misunderstand it, too. I have to say, any misunderstanding on other's is your fault here.

Later you say that the "complexion" quote is not real, but here you open up with the quote and even give it a page it's sourced from. So is it real or not? Because if it is from the book (page 416 of Sword of Destiny) and the word "complexion" is used, than that is saying the chick is white. Again, to me that doesn't mean using a nonwhite actress would ruin the entire show, but that doesn't make your argument any less puzzling.



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Mummelmann said:

But, once again, the main issue with changing this particular characters appearance towards a different look is her lineage in the canon of this universe. Regardless of whether or not it's fictional, it's still a huge issue, and the writers would have to change an entire faction/empire and their looks and possibly culture to fit this narrative. It's just not manageable without losing the sense and weave of the entire world depicted.

It simply amazes me how much people who are in "why not?" camp don't understand this very part - Ciri is not just some random girl, her lineage is of great importance to the whole lore and world of Witcher.



Spike0503 said:
Alara317 said:

You are so wrong. A character should be played by whoever is best for the role. If their race is not relevant to the plot or they're not portraying a real person, then there's no reason James Bond can't be black, Ciri can't be an ethnic minority, or Heimdall can't be played by Idriss Elba.  Changing Ciri's ethnicity doesn't change the story AT ALL, nor does it compromise the plot or bastardize the character. Literally all it does is give a spotlight to a minority that might not have gotten it otherwise. 

That, and offend racists who hate the idea of being a slightly smaller majority than they already are. 

Absolutely wrong. The character should remain as they were written. I'm a Bond fan so I've had this discussion several times already. And of course it changes the story!. Are you freaking kidding me?. Do you know anything about the original books?. There is a region in the Witcher world that is a proxy for Africa and some characters of darker skin come from there. If you change the ethnicity of Ciri then you must change the ethnicity of her entire family and the story with it. Why is this necessary?. 

"Literally all it does is give a spotlight to a minority that might not have gotten it otherwise. "

Why the fuck does this story have to give a spotlight to a minority?. Is there some kind of "sacred law" in the US/UK that all book/game/comic adaptations are required by law to give minorities a spotlight?. Even if the circumstances in the original story do not allow for such a spotlight, nor is it needed?. If the main cast of a book is white, then they should be kept like that in the adaptation. I would say the same thing about any comic, book, video game or whatever other medium and if the circumstances were reversed and Ciri was black in the book, I would be just as pissed about this.

Let me ask you something, just so we are clear, if someone tomorrow decided to adapt a fantasy book series with an important character who happens to be black, and decided to portray that character with a white actor/actress, would that be okay?. Would it be okay with you?. Would the mainstream media respect that decision?. After all, "it's just a fantasy character" who cares who portrays the role as long as they have the acting skills right?. 

"That, and offend racists who hate the idea of being a slightly smaller majority than they already are. "

You keep spouting the same old BS. Those who disagree with you aren't racists, they just care about the story in a different way than you do. Learn to accept that.

Have a snickers, dude.



Mummelmann said:
sundin13 said:

What is your opinion on the idea that the purpose of this change could be to improve the readability of different factions? If every faction is depicted as Scandinavian looking white individuals, divisions between groups are more likely to get muddled for the viewer.

The Witcher books (and games) depict Elves and Dwarves as the oppressed and persecuted minorities of their world, and it's a really clear-cut class society with a large peasant class. The architecture and overall style of different nations are also quite varied. But, once again, the main issue with changing this particular characters appearance towards a different look is her lineage in the canon of this universe. Regardless of whether or not it's fictional, it's still a huge issue, and the writers would have to change an entire faction/empire and their looks and possibly culture to fit this narrative. It's just not manageable without losing the sense and weave of the entire world depicted. Look at Game of Thrones, all the major houses (and minor ones as well) in Westeros are mostly white folk with fairly similar build, but telling factions and cultures apart is very easy most of the time. It was simply never an issue.

The fact that writers feel that the only way to represent or diversify is to have minorities artificially supplant characters originally of a different ethnicity, says a lot about their skill and willingness to construct a diverse cast that makes sense in the context from the beginning.

PS: I actually refused/refuse to see Gods of Egypt due to the ridiculous casting decisions.

I'm not entirely familiar with the lore of the Witcher, but with Game of Thrones at least, it does seem to pull from a larger pool of individuals than just Scandinavians.

The Dornish are more Mediterranean, the Wildlings are more Scottish, the Unsullied are African, the Dothraki are maybe Middle Eastern, etc.. There are certainly a few families which could originate from similar areas, but families such as the Lannisters and Starks are still distinguished physically by characteristics such as hair color.

From what I understand about the Witcher, it seems to focus on a much small scope than Game of Thrones, focusing more specifically on Scandinavians, which is more likely to cause issues than a show which utilizes a far broader range of human factions.

As for the point that it is an issue because they are changing the canon, I still struggle to see why it really matters. Because this is not based in our reality, you don't really have to align people the same way to certain cultural groups. You don't have to change anything about their culture just because you are changing a group's skin color. From all the arguments I've read in this thread, skin color just isn't particularly relevant to the character, whether or not it was established in the books. As such, I don't see much issue with this change. If the core of the argument against this is that someone can't suspend their disbelief to accept minorities in their Middle Ages-esque fantasy shows, I don't really think that is a problem with the show, but instead a problem with the viewer.

I wouldn't go so far as to call someone a racist, simply a canon absolutist, which is fine, but I don't believe that an adaptation should pander to that type of person.



FentonCrackshell said:
thismeintiel said:

Nice that a casting call that is done just for the sake of virtue signalling other SJWs actually shows who the real racists are.  These people only see color.  Not different ethnic/cultural backgrounds.  So all whites are just white to them, which mean they are to be excluded.  All blacks are just that, black.  And so on and so forth for other POC.  The fact that they actually have an acronym for a call for anyone who's not white, says it all.  They don't care about the character or the acting ability, they are just looking for any token actor to push forward and show how "progressive" they are.

Personally, I've always wanted someone to say that they were making a Jeffersons movie, but as a joke/experiment release a trailer with an all white cast.  Watch the hypocrites have a true meltdown.

The thing with your example is that they are not on the same level.  For one, you aren't going to find many people who are that passionate about Aquaman, or DCEU for that matter.  Second, Jason Mamoa does look like Aquaman's redesign where he had one hand, albeit with two hands and Samoan.   And third, there didn't really seem like an agenda behind the casting choice.  I bet it was as simple as them seeing him with long hair and a beard in another film and thought he looked like the newer Aquaman. I could be wrong about the last point, but I don't really remember them pushing it like it was a big deal for "progress."

Starfire, on the other hand, has a passionate following recently thanks to the Teen Titans cartoons.  She looks nothing like her comic book counterpart, which has added insult in the fact that she actually looks like a low dollar prostitute.  Finally, her being black wouldn't really have gotten too much hate if she had lighter skin and was painted/costumed to look like the comics.  The reason it go so much hate was not only does she look nothing like her, but because it just screams forced diversity and, most importantly, the overall project looks like hot garbage.

I see, she just isn’t the right kind of black. The acceptable kind. OK...

I see.  You actually had no argument and are just reaching for a chance to imply the other side is racist.  OK...



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melbye said:
REDZONE said:

Hahaha,exactly.Gods of Egypt was all fine and dandy because "it's fiction so the cast can be anyone".As soon as whites are replaced in any movie,there's an out roar.It's fantasy Ciri could be blue for all I care.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/13/gods-of-egypt-posters-anger-whitewashed-cast-twitter-exodus

So let's not pretend there wasn't backlash against Gods of Egypt

Reading that made me feel like I dropped a few IQ points.  It's both sad and hilarious how they think just because Egypt is in Africa that means the whole cast should be black.  Of course, the truth is the ancient Egyptians would more resemble those from the Middle East.  And then they do cast a black man and they are pissed because it's the "magical negro stereotype."  Whatever the fuck that is.  Sounds more like they made it up, looking for more ways to get outraged.  So, for SJWs, all movies set in Africa, regardless of the true race of those that lived there, must have an all black cast.  Oh, but don't cast a black person as someone who does magic, cause that's racist, too.

And one actually said that Egypt was never ruled by whites.  Well, it was under Roman rule for few hundred years, so...



Is there really backlash over this issue? Are the same people up in arms about this also banging down the studios' doors about the many examples that have gone the other way over the years?

It's a fictional character. If this bothers you enough to make you disinterested, you might need to reevaluate things. Maybe you're a purist and the books are your life, but in that case you weren't going to be happy with the adaptation anyway.



deskpro2k3 said:
Faelco said:

 

So you're now trying to say that the quote means "she has a white perspective" or "she has a white appearance but not white skin"? 

 

2 other people taught you the obvious meaning of the word. Don't try to cover your mistake by now going in a dictionary to choose any secondary meaning with no relation to the sentence.

 

And you even dare to be condescending... No no, go ahead, it's so much better than to admit that you made a mistake. Keep digging! 

Circular logic ain't going to work on me, but go ahead and ignore the fact the quote is not even real. Ignore the fact I ga ve you the actual real quote. That's how people not learn and you're doing great at it.

So, "let me break it down"...

deskpro2k3 said: 

I assume people are quoting this?

From Sword of Destiny page 416. “She had fair hair, ashen white complexion and large impetuous green eyes”

Let me break it down for those people to understand:

"fair hair - ashen white complexion" and "Impetuous green eyes". So where does it say anything about being white?

in other versions (Gollancz, with the cover illustration made by Alejandro Colucci) this quote is 'She had fair, mousy hair and huge glaringly green eyes.' English audiobook has the same exact quote 'She had fair hair, mouse-gray, and large impetuous eyes'.

You never say "this isn't the actual quote", you just talk about "other versions", and you even quote yourself the book Sword of Destiny, page 416.

And then, you say "let me break it down, fair hair and ashen white complexion, so where does it say anything about being white?". This right here shows that you don't understand the word complexion. Nothing about "it's not the actual quote", just "you guys don't understand the sentence, let me explain is to you", before failing in your explanation.

It's nice to try to accuse others by saying "I didn't say that, learn" and trying to change what you said with each new comment, but it's not that hard to check your original comment, you know? You should try to learn how to remember what you said, and to accept that you did a mistake instead of digging deeper and deeper.

Last edited by Faelco - on 09 September 2018

xxbrothawizxx63 said:

1) Is there really backlash over this issue? 2)Are the same people up in arms about this also banging down the studios' doors about the many examples that have gone the other way over the years?

3) It's a fictional character. If this bothers you enough to make you disinterested, you might need to reevaluate things. 4) Maybe you're a purist and the books are your life, but in that case you weren't going to be happy with the adaptation anyway.


1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Nope. I don't need to reevaluate anything. Respect the source or don't bother is my motto.

4. You can't know that. I'm not against some changes in adaptations, like cutting away bits of the story to streamline it for a short run time, but stuff like this needs to be called out for what it is: Forced Diversity BS.




Spike0503 said:
xxbrothawizxx63 said:

1) Is there really backlash over this issue? 2)Are the same people up in arms about this also banging down the studios' doors about the many examples that have gone the other way over the years?

3) It's a fictional character. If this bothers you enough to make you disinterested, you might need to reevaluate things. 4) Maybe you're a purist and the books are your life, but in that case you weren't going to be happy with the adaptation anyway.


1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Nope. I don't need to reevaluate anything. Respect the source or don't bother is my motto.

4. You can't know that. I'm not against some changes in adaptations, like cutting away bits of the story to streamline it for a short run time, but stuff like this needs to be called out for what it is: Forced Diversity BS.


Maybe I've just become desensitized to the issue because I'm a minority and this isn't anything new, but I just can't give this any weight when it's a fictional character without any real cultural significance.  Somehow I kinda doubt the answer to question 2 even if it may be the case for you. 

Whitewashing won't end because entertainment is made for its audience. The biggest consumer base is western Caucasians. Diversity is fashionable and minority groups continue to grow in influence in these nations. It's not surprising that this is occurring. As China has grown in influence, Asian stars have become more commonplace and are actively sought out to portray roles to be marketable in those territories. Directors have artistic license with a movie because it is an adaptation. 

There are cases when this might be inappropriate, but this just isn't worth being bothered by.