By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Starbucks Billionaire: You Can’t Have Healthcare Or College

Love to watch the Jimmy Dore show, he tells the truth. Also some of these comments here are facepalm worthy.



Proud to be a Californian.

Around the Network
contestgamer said:

Yeah better results for the majority, but thats misleading, because many here cant afford healthcare. Those that can afford good healthcare get better results HERE than they do in Germany. So healthcare is better here at the highest level than in Germany. I's not a coincidence that billionaires fly in from all around the world for treatments in the US and not Germany.

Where are you forming this opinion that people who cannot afford good healthcare get better results in the US.  If anything the life expectancy shows that is not the case.  Also if you cannot afford insurance within the US, you will not get the procedures that cost a lot of money.  Even if you have insurance, there isn't a guarantee that your insurance company will pay for those needed exams, medical drugs or surgical procedures for a lot of the stuff people believe their insurance company will pay for.  Having been through this I know that doctors will not even tell you about certain procedures if your insurance will not cover it unless its life threatening and even then you have to fund it from your own pockets.  The reason why billionaires fly to the US for treatments is because they can afford to pay the cost for those procedures for some reason you believe you get access to because you have insurance.



Machiavellian said:
contestgamer said:

Yeah better results for the majority, but thats misleading, because many here cant afford healthcare. Those that can afford good healthcare get better results HERE than they do in Germany. So healthcare is better here at the highest level than in Germany. I's not a coincidence that billionaires fly in from all around the world for treatments in the US and not Germany.

Where are you forming this opinion that people who cannot afford good healthcare get better results in the US.  If anything the life expectancy shows that is not the case.  Also if you cannot afford insurance within the US, you will not get the procedures that cost a lot of money.  Even if you have insurance, there isn't a guarantee that your insurance company will pay for those needed exams, medical drugs or surgical procedures for a lot of the stuff people believe their insurance company will pay for.  Having been through this I know that doctors will not even tell you about certain procedures if your insurance will not cover it unless its life threatening and even then you have to fund it from your own pockets.  The reason why billionaires fly to the US for treatments is because they can afford to pay the cost for those procedures for some reason you believe you get access to because you have insurance.

I was saying the opposite. I was saying that many cant afford good healthcare in the US, but I consider that irrelevant. I measure effectiveness based on the preference of the richest people on earth, who choose the US system over any other when given the choice.



DirtyP2002 said:
lightningfunk said:

the people arguing that there should be free stuff really need to hit rock bottom so that they can learn something new like economics

Germany has 100% free education and a very decent healthcare and social security system established. Germany reported a budget surplus of 25 billion Euro (28 billion USD).
That means Germany actually made a profit.

Also don't forget it has one of the lowest unemployment numbers in the world better than for example usa and people live longer than in USA. Damned Germany sucks
Sjeez what's next they can have Kinder surprise and drink at 18?

Last edited by konnichiwa - on 13 August 2018




DirtyP2002 said:
VAMatt said:

This is not true.  There is no free education anywhere.  That is not possible.  

As for a budget surplus, no, that's not profit  That just means they stole more money from the taxpayers than they should have.  

SPIN!

You don't have to pay for education in Germany. Sure taxes will be spent here, but there is no extra fee or anything like it for it.

 

I am not saying Germany is the greatest country on this planet, even though I reall like living here and think it is a great country to raise my children. I will probably never leave it.
I am just pointing out that there is a way to let people have free access to education and health care AND have a great and strong economy at the same time.

 I don't know much about Germany in particular. But, I do have a basic understanding of economics.  I know that it is a 100% Stone Cold fact that there is no such thing as free education.

What you are saying is that education is funded by other people, rather than by the student.  That's not even in the same ballpark as free. It just means that other people are picking up the tab for your education.



Around the Network
VAMatt said:
DirtyP2002 said:

SPIN!

You don't have to pay for education in Germany. Sure taxes will be spent here, but there is no extra fee or anything like it for it.

 

I am not saying Germany is the greatest country on this planet, even though I reall like living here and think it is a great country to raise my children. I will probably never leave it.
I am just pointing out that there is a way to let people have free access to education and health care AND have a great and strong economy at the same time.

 I don't know much about Germany in particular. But, I do have a basic understanding of economics.  I know that it is a 100% Stone Cold fact that there is no such thing as free education.

What you are saying is that education is funded by other people, rather than by the student.  That's not even in the same ballpark as free. It just means that other people are picking up the tab for your education.

Right. And then once the person who got the 'free' college gets a good job they then pay for others with their taxes. Get it? It's a cycle that works wonderfully. Taxes are not a bad thing as some Americans stupidly think. What's bad is the poor usage of tax money. So whereas other countries are fine doing things that benefit all of society as a whole with their tax money, Americans would rather it be spent not for the benefit of society as whole. Which leads to the American wasteland and vast wealth disparity it is now since the entire country is just about serving themselves and not others.



konnichiwa said:
DirtyP2002 said:

Germany has 100% free education and a very decent healthcare and social security system established. Germany reported a budget surplus of 25 billion Euro (28 billion USD).
That means Germany actually made a profit.

Also don't forget it has one of the lowest unemployment numbers in the world better than for example usa and people live longer than in USA. Damned Germany sucks
Sjeez what's next they can have Kinder surprise and drink at 18?

beer and wine at 16, hard alcoholics at 18.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

Megiddo said:
VAMatt said:

 I don't know much about Germany in particular. But, I do have a basic understanding of economics.  I know that it is a 100% Stone Cold fact that there is no such thing as free education.

What you are saying is that education is funded by other people, rather than by the student.  That's not even in the same ballpark as free. It just means that other people are picking up the tab for your education.

Right. And then once the person who got the 'free' college gets a good job they then pay for others with their taxes. Get it? It's a cycle that works wonderfully. Taxes are not a bad thing as some Americans stupidly think. What's bad is the poor usage of tax money. So whereas other countries are fine doing things that benefit all of society as a whole with their tax money, Americans would rather it be spent not for the benefit of society as whole. Which leads to the American wasteland and vast wealth disparity it is now since the entire country is just about serving themselves and not others.

You seem to have a terrible understanding of American culture and Americans. But, that's outside the scope of this thread.  So, I'll leave it at that.

 

As to the rest of your argument, it's not clear to me how it addresses my comment.  I can only figure that you didn't like my point, so you decided to read something into my comment that I didn't say.  



Megiddo said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Instead of reading bullshit I decided to check the website myself.

I went to Healthcare.gov, put in a Austin Texas zip code, put in $20K for expected income. That qualifies for $299 a month subsidy which virtually covers a health plan.

It would still cost you about $200 a month out of pocket for a good plan (low copays and deductible). Frankly, that's pretty reasonable. You could even pay $2.63 a month for a plan that has a high deductible ($5000) but low copays. Or $80 month for something better but cheaper than the superior $200 a month plan, etc. Hence, if you're relatively poor the government is already catering to you in some form.

I said the poorest out there. You don't have any idea what the 'poorest' means if you think an individual with a 20k expected income is poor.

https://www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-brief/the-coverage-gap-uninsured-poor-adults-in-states-that-do-not-expand-medicaid/

Go try the same thing and put 10k expected income instead. Or do 20k with 4 dependents.

20K is about what someone makes with a full time minimum wage job. Depending on the state, some might be more or less. The median income is about $40K.

In Travis County TX, it looks like you need to make at least $13K to get a government subsidy that covers virtually all or most of a health plan at Healthcare.gov. It seems if you have 4 kids and make $20K you don't get a subsidy, but your kids will qualify for CHIP and food stamps is also likely. But most people do get their health care from their employer. Also, I'm not sure if Texas offers anything locally to provide healthcare for the poor. In Arizona (red state), we have AHCCSS which gives MANY poor people free health coverage.

Honestly, we could probably give more poor people health care if we just eliminated most other safety nets. I'd be open to giving more poor people free/cheap access to health care if we pull way back on other safety nets. Also, lets remember a vast majority of this country already has health care plans.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

VAMatt said:
Megiddo said:

Right. And then once the person who got the 'free' college gets a good job they then pay for others with their taxes. Get it? It's a cycle that works wonderfully. Taxes are not a bad thing as some Americans stupidly think. What's bad is the poor usage of tax money. So whereas other countries are fine doing things that benefit all of society as a whole with their tax money, Americans would rather it be spent not for the benefit of society as whole. Which leads to the American wasteland and vast wealth disparity it is now since the entire country is just about serving themselves and not others.

You seem to have a terrible understanding of American culture and Americans. But, that's outside the scope of this thread.  So, I'll leave it at that.

I seem to have a much better understanding of American culture than you do. How else would you explain your country being vastly more wealthy and yet having worse conditions for its most fragile citizens than countries with much less of its per capita GDP? It's because Americans shun the idea of helping someone below them. It's always "why do I have to pay for this" or "why do I have to pay for that". And that mindset allows politicians to continue cutting taxes on the wealthy so the rich keep hoarding their wealth and the middle class is happy because those under them now have less support. It's hilarious to see. Nobody in America makes a ruckus about the billions in unneeded corporate subsidies but oh no, if just one person uses their food stamps to buy something not completely nutritious it sparks immediate reform. America is a barbaric state compared to most other nations. It can't even guarantee all of its citizens something as basic as healthcare and instead chooses to have corporations profit off of dying people.