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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How could Nintendo implement a Switch Pro?

BlackBeauty said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Xavier is specifically designed for deep machine learning, so most of it's power would get lost in a gaming scenario unless you work very long to get the power out of the machine, similar to the Cell in the PS3. This would make porting games potentially a nightmare to realize as the power is there in theory, but unlocking it would need druidic knowledge of it's inner workings.

So was the X1. (That was the point)

no honey it’s not similar to cell Lol. It’s an arm processor.

Tegra processor never took off after tegra 3. It started flopping because industry started adopting Qualcomm for mobile (thanks Samsuang)

from X1 onwards all tegra chips were used for AI. Xavier is no different from the switch soc right now. 

People comparing Flops when Xavier is far and away more advanced than anything we have right now. Even if raw computing power won’t match the PS5, games should look comparable regardless.

It's heavily modified, just the base instructions are still ARM based. Carmel, the CPU part, is so heavily modified it doesn't even count as an ARM v8 variant anymore, unlike the Denver and Denver 2 cores that preceded it.

X1 got used for AI, but was not specifically designed for like Xavier did. Hence why most of it is useless in a gaming scenario unless you delve deep into it's workings to unlock it's power. And in that regard, it would be similar to how complicated it was for game developers to get much out of Cell.

Oh, and Xavier's power only matches XBO, nothing near PS5 levels



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I can see a New Nintendo Switch/Switch Pro coming in 2020 with a Tegra X2 inside it.

Honestly they'd be foolish not to; hardware revisions are a great way to boost sales. Every one of their past handhelds has benefited from this. Gameboy/GBA/DS/3DS would not have sold as well without upgrades like the Gameboy Colour, GBA SP, DS Lite/DSi, New 3DS/2DS.

The great thing is, with a Switch Pro, you wouldn't even really need to do extra work  for a new performance profile; so many games today use a dynamic resolution that you'd get an automatic boost there from games holding closer to the higher end of their resolution range.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 02 July 2018

curl-6 said:

I can see a New Nintendo Switch/Switch Pro coming in 2020 with a Tegra X2 inside it.

Honestly they'd be foolish not to; hardware revisions are a great way to boost sales. Every one of their past handhelds has benefited from this. Gameboy/GBA/DS/3DS would not have sold as well without upgrades like the Gameboy Colour, GBA SP, DS Lite/DSi, New 3DS/2DS.

The great thing is, with a Switch Pro, you wouldn't even really need to do extra work  for a new performance profile; so many games today use a dynamic resolution that you'd get an automatic boost there from games holding closer to the higher end of their resolution range.

Exactly, a lot of games, even Nintendo's, are reliant on dynamic res and all of these would see immediate boosts.  Microsoft and Sony have seen this already with the X and Pro.  Odyssey could hit 900p at all times and they could probably drop the temporal reconstruction method in handheld for a straight 720p.  Doom and Wolfenstein could probably lock their res in dock and vastly improve it in handheld while also tightening up the performance.  

 

Shoot, I would buy it.  Especially if it came with some other upgrades such as a 900p or better screen, an improved kickstand, and other basic quality improvements.  



At this point I don't think they ever will. We will most likely have a refresh down the line that will use the same chip but at slightly higher clocks so that some games might run a bit smoother. They decided to go full hog on the portable and using a better Tegra chip still won't solve the AAA game port issue one bit.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Cerebralbore101 said:
They'd be better off, promptly launching the Switch's successor March 03rd of 2022. Same concept, better hardware, and backwards compatible with Switch. But Nintendo won't do that. They have a bad habit of dropping nearly all support for their current console, waiting a year, and then launching a successor. Wii was nearly unsupported for all of 2012, before they launched the Wii U. The Wii U barely got anything from summer 2016 to spring 2017, when the Switch launched.

Probably that will not be problem any more because they intend to stick to same tech and architecture (Nvidia + ARM) thats in Switch.

 

Soundwave said: 
Custom Tegra Xavier would be the ticket IMO. 

Full sized Xavier is way too big and beastly ... it's 5 TFLOPS at an amazing 30 watts or so, but they probably could deliver Nintendo a custom build that could run at 600 GFLOPS undocked/1.7 TFLOP docked (1/3 of a full size Xavier). 

That would be an insane portable, basically any current gen title would be portable, and even probably a good number of PS5/XB Scarlet titles if you're OK with 540p-720p portable.

Tegra Xavier could be possibility for Switch 2, not for Switch Pro, Tegra X2 would be perfect for Switch Pro.

 

Cobretti2 said: 
It won't happen with Switch.

Switch 2 maybe and that would be through the dock and a supplementary gpu. However the port on the console would need to be fast enough. Maybe thunderbolt 4 will be fast enough to make it worth it.

Why do you think that, we had DSi and New 3DS that both had stronger hardware than original versions of those consoles, something similar can be expected for Switch also.

 

JEMC said: 
I don't think they'll launch a Switch Pro. Devs already have to work with two configurations for their games, and adding a third one will only make the optimization more complicated. And if they go with the same idea of the New 3DS of making Switch Pro only games, that would break their userbase, making less developers interested in it. 

What they may do is a Switch Mini, with a slightly smaller screen and using the Tegra X2 at lower clocks to give the same performance as the current X1 on the Switch. The end product would give the exact same performance for those that use it as a home console, but for those that use it as a handheld it would mean a more portable device with a longer battery life.

I dont think Nintendo cares to much about that, we had DSi and New 3DS, its almost certain that they will do something similar for Switch also.

I can see Switch Pro/XL and Switch Mini/Pocket also, Nintendo inteds to have wider offer of Switch family, similar like 3DS family with 3DS, 3DS XL, New 3DS, New 3DS XL, 2DS and New 2DS XL.



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I agree with OP, Switch XL/Pro that offers current docked performance (resolution and frame rate) in portable mod and higher docked performance than current in docked mod. Tegra X2 would be perfect for achieving that.

I also seeing Switch Mini/Pocket thats smaller and around $100 cheaper than regular Switch, just for handheld play.



KBG29 said:
potato_hamster said:

lol. So much nonsense you're doubling down on. It's precious, and so dramatic! But let's sort some things out.

We're moving towards unification, are we? Remember when we could only make phone calls on land-based telephones? Now we can make phone calls on land-based telephones, satellite phones, cellular phones, tablets, PCs, handheld game consoles, etc.Remember when you could only get Netflix on your PC? Now you can get it on PCs, tablets,smartphones, smart TVs, game consoles, handhelds, bluray players, cable boxes etc. Some technologies converge then, as the technology becomes arbitrary to implement, it diverges again. Besides, all you've proven is that people prefer to only have one device on the go. How many people care about how many devices are under their TV? I can't imagine there's too many people that wish their game console was also their TV receiver, but I don't doubt for one second that you wish that was a thing. How many people truly miss the DVD/blu-ray drives in laptops? How many people wish they had a TV receiver in their laptop? How many people wish they could just do away with TVs altogether and consume all media, including live TV on just their smartphone? Not many. HDMI ports are a dime a dozen. Power bars aren't that much more expensive. And let's look at what Apple, Google and MS are actually doing. Creating walled gardens. What else do you think Valve was up to with Steam OS and Steam Machines? The target audience was effectively nobody, but they wanted to take a shot at popularizing a walled garden where people would just keep adding games to their steam library instead of buying them off of all of their competitors that keep springing up. Apple wants to give you every reason possible to just buy Apple products. But, does Apple just want to you to just buy an iPhone? Fuck No! They want you buying iPads. They want you buying apple TVs. They want you buying macs, and they want you to do that so that you have every reason just to use the app store and the apple store to buy all of your music, tv shows, and movies, and be able to stream all that shit over all the other iDevices. But why doesn't apple make a TV? Because they'd have a really, really hard time selling a TV that accepted inputs from other devices. That just isn't the apple way! But let's be clear, Apple's solution isn't unification. That is an ecosystem that says "Don't fucking dare buy anything else".

Most consumers don't take too kindly with that shit. That's why google, while they're trying to put up their own walled garden, got a bit smart and licenced Android to pretty much anyone. That's why you can put windows on any PC you want. It's not because they don't want to be just as closed off as apple, it's because they want to cater to the large swaths of people who are not going to put up with that shit. So where does that leave console makers?


And you want Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo to go up against what apple is doing, except even more walled garden, instead of carving out their own little niches, their own market that requires a fuck load of time, money and effort, when Apple and Google are in much more lucrative markets. Can you see Apple or Google creating/buy 5-10 game studios to make exclusive games to sell on their iConsole/Google console? They don't even make games for iOS/Android. Sure they can buy exclusivity, but MS knows how wonderful that is to consumers. But no! Instead Sony needs to start making an OS that runs on everything from the PS5 to their smartphone to car stereos, and why not PCs? So should Nintendo. Even though MS, Google, and Apple aren't dumb enough to do that, that is Sony's and Nintendo's solution! To make devices they no longer or never made, and put bloated, unnecessary OSes on them so you can play God of War and Mario while driving.

Also, question on that free Fortnite game. How popular do you think it would be on iOS and Android if it cost $59.99? I bet you know the answer is that everyone would be laughing their asses off if Epic games tried to sell a mobile game for $59.99. How much do they sell Madden for? How about COD or Battlefield? Ohh. No, you're right.Not only is EA going to put the time and effort to porting the full version of Madden to iOS, they're going to give it away for free. Makes sense. That's why they just brought it to PC and Origin for $59.99, because they soon know that those people would rather not play on PC and would rather play on their smartphone.

You are out of your mind if you think 200 million console gamers are just going to roll over and accept a google or apple console, and touch controls as the only input as if such a device would just force Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft from selling game consoles. If people were that willing to flock to such solutions, they wouldn't have bought 130 million + PS4s/X1s/Switches. Google/Apple already offers that, so stop pretending that all paths lead that way. See, here's the part you fail to understand. Sony doesn't have to make anything other than a PS5 that is a beefed up PS4 that adapts modern technology and to trends to keep selling millions of consoles to gamers who want to play great games on TVs with gamepads. There is zero indication that market is dwindling in any way. That's why they've sold over 80 million PS4s in just 4.5 short years. Because millions of people *still* want to play games on TVs with gamepads. Those people aren't just going to start playing on smartphones just because they can get Madden on it.

So can you just quit the nonsense now? Thanks in advance.

You know, people told me the same exact thing about how they would never give up their physical compass, or their dedicated navigation system, or their handheld for one of those iPhone things. That is why I used those examples. I could go on for pages on people I directly know and stories from friends and family, about how so and so said they would never own or never do (Insert Activity) on a smartphone. Now everyone I know has a smartphone, and where are those other devices? The Attic, the Basement, the landfill, one things for sure, they sure as shit arn't being used.

If you look back, PS4/XBO launched just after Smartphones really started to take off. When these two consoles launched I knew many people who did not have a smartphone. 5 years later, everyone of those people have a smartphone. When PS5 and XBO launch in 2019, 2020, or whenever, iOS and Android are going to be much stronger and more engrained than they where in 2013. Why do you think Google said to be making a strong push for gaming in the coming years? It ain't for shits and giggles. They want that royalty money that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are getting from 3rd party games. If they offer a box that is competitve with PS5/XB4/NSW or NSW2, and allow every single game to be played on that Box and you Android Phone, you don't think Android fans are going to make the jump from XB/PS/Nin to Android?

We arn't even talking touch controls here anymore. This would be a box with PS5/XB4 power, and a standard Bluetooth gamepad, which could also be tethered to your Android device. $59.99 and you can play your games on you Android Phone on the go, and in 4K/60 at home. You don't think that is a possability? You don't think Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo should be fully ready to counter this attack on their turf? 

The writing is on the wall. If Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft fail to act, just like Sony and Nintendo did with the Handheld market, then consoles as we know them will die just as fast as Handhelds did. I will fight to the very end for all three of these companies, if they put up a fight, thanks to all of the amazing times they have delivered to me in the past 30 years. But, if they fail to put up a fight, and Google or Apple come out with a Handheld Form Factor Mobile device and a Home Console line, with a unified library, and they fail to match them, I am going to have to drop support for these companies. That comes from someone with a passion for these companies and their games. Most people I know couldn't care less whether they play on Xbox, PlayStation, Windows, Mac, Android, or iOS. Switching from their current home console to any other would be no issue whatsoever. 

It's amazing that whenever you're trying to weave a narrative you always apparently know people that are either naysayers or true believers that help support your case. Can you just drop with the obviously ridiculous anecdotes? Once again, you know people that have given up their compass for a cell phone? They given up a non-battery operated reliable, critical navigation device, or a digital, long-battery life device that uses satellites and/or the earth's magnetic pole for a battery-operate device that depends on cell reception it may not have, and depends on software that may not be accurate? I can't fathom that anyone believes you 99.9% of the time you claim to know people that fit your narrative. They're so obviously outlandish.

In 2013, when the PS4/X1 launched, was the time of the Apple 5S, and Samsung Galaxy S4. Apple was selling 150 million iPhones alone in 2013. You're delusional if you think smartphones were not firmly established at that time.Many smartphone owners were on their second or third smartphone by then. I literally knew people who worked at Walmart that bought the previous year's iPhone 5 for like $100 on a two year plan when the 5S launched. The smartphone market really started to take off in 2010/2011, when smartphones quadrupled over that period. But that's years before the PS4/X1 came out. So what are you talking about? We can look this shit up. We don't have to take your word for it, and once again, your word is completely wrong.

And you think google is concerned with the few dollars Sony/MS/Nintendo get per game copy sold? Really? Considering how hard those companies have to work for it? Wouldn't it be far easier just keep to taking a higher margin off of Android store sales and just encourage manufacturers to keep making more and more devices that play play android apps? I'm pretty sure it would. Like you do realize that Apple has already "consolized" the appleTV, right? You can buy games for your iPhone and play them on your appleTV and iPad right now Do you see any noticable impact PS4 and X1 sales? Because I don't. And do I think we're a few years away from having smart phones that are just as powerful, and as easy to port to as game consoles would be at that time? No. No I do not. I'm not sure anyone would. It has, and will forever remain true that when you have to build for a tiny form factor that runs off of battery power, you have to make tremendous sacrifices in performance compared to what you could design that runs off of outlet power, and can use a components and power consumption that is practically a degree of magnitude higher.. Your entire idea hinges on the concept that in 202whatever, most people are going to be totally content using a 5" 720p screen (as if rendering is the only critical factor) and because you think this one part of handheld device can stagnate, it can take better advantage of  hardware improvements than consoles can. That's a PPI of 293. Whats the PPI of the iPhone 8 ? 326. How about the Samsung Galaxy? 571. But yeah, I'm totally sure smartphone users would be willing to accept a such a huge drop off in screen quality in 2018, that is only going to get larger as time goes on. Because reasons.

As for touch controls, you're the one that brought it up in your little dramatic rant. "If you are fine with touch controls, and gaming as an, oh yeah, you can do that if you like type of product, then great. If you are fine with Apple, and Google taking over everything, then steady the course," Yes, because it's just that easy to take over. That's why everyone is now using Google + instead of Facebook right? People wouldn't be using Facebook Messenger, they'd be using Google Buzz. And how many Google glass users do you see out in the wild? None. But you want to assume they can just bomb into the console space with a game console that lets you play AAA on your phone with touch controls, and wipe Sony and Nintendo off the map. You literally believe this will happen. You think that one day someone is going to choose a Google gamebox over a PS5 because the Google gamebox lets you play Madden with touch controls on your smart phone, as if there are hundreds of millions of people that think that's a feature worth buying.  It isn't. Just like they haven't accepted motion controls or VR. Gamers still want to play on a TV, sitting down on their couch, using a gamepad. There's no reason to expect that is going to change any time soon. If Sony is the only one in five years time releasing a dedicated home console that you hook up to a TV, and lets you use a gamepad, and lets you play all of the latest AAA games from all the biggest publishers for the next five years, they'll enjoy 100 million + in sales for probably decades to come.

But hey at least Google knows that if they did want to go after the scraps in the game console space, they'll have at least one sale in you.



potato_hamster said:

It's amazing that whenever you're trying to weave a narrative you always apparently know people that are either naysayers or true believers that help support your case. Can you just drop with the obviously ridiculous anecdotes? Once again, you know people that have given up their compass for a cell phone? They given up a non-battery operated reliable, critical navigation device, or a digital, long-battery life device that uses satellites and/or the earth's magnetic pole for a battery-operate device that depends on cell reception it may not have, and depends on software that may not be accurate? I can't fathom that anyone believes you 99.9% of the time you claim to know people that fit your narrative. They're so obviously outlandish.

In 2013, when the PS4/X1 launched, was the time of the Apple 5S, and Samsung Galaxy S4. Apple was selling 150 million iPhones alone in 2013. You're delusional if you think smartphones were not firmly established at that time.Many smartphone owners were on their second or third smartphone by then. I literally knew people who worked at Walmart that bought the previous year's iPhone 5 for like $100 on a two year plan when the 5S launched. The smartphone market really started to take off in 2010/2011, when smartphones quadrupled over that period. But that's years before the PS4/X1 came out. So what are you talking about? We can look this shit up. We don't have to take your word for it, and once again, your word is completely wrong.

And you think google is concerned with the few dollars Sony/MS/Nintendo get per game copy sold? Really? Considering how hard those companies have to work for it? Wouldn't it be far easier just keep to taking a higher margin off of Android store sales and just encourage manufacturers to keep making more and more devices that play play android apps? I'm pretty sure it would. Like you do realize that Apple has already "consolized" the appleTV, right? You can buy games for your iPhone and play them on your appleTV and iPad right now Do you see any noticable impact PS4 and X1 sales? Because I don't. And do I think we're a few years away from having smart phones that are just as powerful, and as easy to port to as game consoles would be at that time? No. No I do not. I'm not sure anyone would. It has, and will forever remain true that when you have to build for a tiny form factor that runs off of battery power, you have to make tremendous sacrifices in performance compared to what you could design that runs off of outlet power, and can use a components and power consumption that is practically a degree of magnitude higher.. Your entire idea hinges on the concept that in 202whatever, most people are going to be totally content using a 5" 720p screen (as if rendering is the only critical factor) and because you think this one part of handheld device can stagnate, it can take better advantage of  hardware improvements than consoles can. That's a PPI of 293. Whats the PPI of the iPhone 8 ? 326. How about the Samsung Galaxy? 571. But yeah, I'm totally sure smartphone users would be willing to accept a such a huge drop off in screen quality in 2018, that is only going to get larger as time goes on. Because reasons.

As for touch controls, you're the one that brought it up in your little dramatic rant. "If you are fine with touch controls, and gaming as an, oh yeah, you can do that if you like type of product, then great. If you are fine with Apple, and Google taking over everything, then steady the course," Yes, because it's just that easy to take over. That's why everyone is now using Google + instead of Facebook right? People wouldn't be using Facebook Messenger, they'd be using Google Buzz. And how many Google glass users do you see out in the wild? None. But you want to assume they can just bomb into the console space with a game console that lets you play AAA on your phone with touch controls, and wipe Sony and Nintendo off the map. You literally believe this will happen. You think that one day someone is going to choose a Google gamebox over a PS5 because the Google gamebox lets you play Madden with touch controls on your smart phone, as if there are hundreds of millions of people that think that's a feature worth buying.  It isn't. Just like they haven't accepted motion controls or VR. Gamers still want to play on a TV, sitting down on their couch, using a gamepad. There's no reason to expect that is going to change any time soon. If Sony is the only one in five years time releasing a dedicated home console that you hook up to a TV, and lets you use a gamepad, and lets you play all of the latest AAA games from all the biggest publishers for the next five years, they'll enjoy 100 million + in sales for probably decades to come.

But hey at least Google knows that if they did want to go after the scraps in the game console space, they'll have at least one sale in you.

This is like a Democrat vs Republican debate. I swear we live in two different worlds.

Here is all I have left to say. DS + PSP = 235M, 3DS + Vita = 88M. Things can and will change very quickly, if Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft don't get their ecosystems right. 



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

A lot of the third party ports and even nintendos own games use dynamic resolutions, so in theory most games wouldn't even need patches to take some advantage of a more powerful switch pro.

The X2 is a good candidate, it could potentially double battery life in portable mode and offer some nice improvements docked.



KBG29 said:
potato_hamster said:

It's amazing that whenever you're trying to weave a narrative you always apparently know people that are either naysayers or true believers that help support your case. Can you just drop with the obviously ridiculous anecdotes? Once again, you know people that have given up their compass for a cell phone? They given up a non-battery operated reliable, critical navigation device, or a digital, long-battery life device that uses satellites and/or the earth's magnetic pole for a battery-operate device that depends on cell reception it may not have, and depends on software that may not be accurate? I can't fathom that anyone believes you 99.9% of the time you claim to know people that fit your narrative. They're so obviously outlandish.

In 2013, when the PS4/X1 launched, was the time of the Apple 5S, and Samsung Galaxy S4. Apple was selling 150 million iPhones alone in 2013. You're delusional if you think smartphones were not firmly established at that time.Many smartphone owners were on their second or third smartphone by then. I literally knew people who worked at Walmart that bought the previous year's iPhone 5 for like $100 on a two year plan when the 5S launched. The smartphone market really started to take off in 2010/2011, when smartphones quadrupled over that period. But that's years before the PS4/X1 came out. So what are you talking about? We can look this shit up. We don't have to take your word for it, and once again, your word is completely wrong.

And you think google is concerned with the few dollars Sony/MS/Nintendo get per game copy sold? Really? Considering how hard those companies have to work for it? Wouldn't it be far easier just keep to taking a higher margin off of Android store sales and just encourage manufacturers to keep making more and more devices that play play android apps? I'm pretty sure it would. Like you do realize that Apple has already "consolized" the appleTV, right? You can buy games for your iPhone and play them on your appleTV and iPad right now Do you see any noticable impact PS4 and X1 sales? Because I don't. And do I think we're a few years away from having smart phones that are just as powerful, and as easy to port to as game consoles would be at that time? No. No I do not. I'm not sure anyone would. It has, and will forever remain true that when you have to build for a tiny form factor that runs off of battery power, you have to make tremendous sacrifices in performance compared to what you could design that runs off of outlet power, and can use a components and power consumption that is practically a degree of magnitude higher.. Your entire idea hinges on the concept that in 202whatever, most people are going to be totally content using a 5" 720p screen (as if rendering is the only critical factor) and because you think this one part of handheld device can stagnate, it can take better advantage of  hardware improvements than consoles can. That's a PPI of 293. Whats the PPI of the iPhone 8 ? 326. How about the Samsung Galaxy? 571. But yeah, I'm totally sure smartphone users would be willing to accept a such a huge drop off in screen quality in 2018, that is only going to get larger as time goes on. Because reasons.

As for touch controls, you're the one that brought it up in your little dramatic rant. "If you are fine with touch controls, and gaming as an, oh yeah, you can do that if you like type of product, then great. If you are fine with Apple, and Google taking over everything, then steady the course," Yes, because it's just that easy to take over. That's why everyone is now using Google + instead of Facebook right? People wouldn't be using Facebook Messenger, they'd be using Google Buzz. And how many Google glass users do you see out in the wild? None. But you want to assume they can just bomb into the console space with a game console that lets you play AAA on your phone with touch controls, and wipe Sony and Nintendo off the map. You literally believe this will happen. You think that one day someone is going to choose a Google gamebox over a PS5 because the Google gamebox lets you play Madden with touch controls on your smart phone, as if there are hundreds of millions of people that think that's a feature worth buying.  It isn't. Just like they haven't accepted motion controls or VR. Gamers still want to play on a TV, sitting down on their couch, using a gamepad. There's no reason to expect that is going to change any time soon. If Sony is the only one in five years time releasing a dedicated home console that you hook up to a TV, and lets you use a gamepad, and lets you play all of the latest AAA games from all the biggest publishers for the next five years, they'll enjoy 100 million + in sales for probably decades to come.

But hey at least Google knows that if they did want to go after the scraps in the game console space, they'll have at least one sale in you.

This is like a Democrat vs Republican debate. I swear we live in two different worlds.

Here is all I have left to say. DS + PSP = 235M, 3DS + Vita = 88M. Things can and will change very quickly, if Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft don't get their ecosystems right. 

Well it's kinda like a Democrat vs. Republican debate. Except I'm relying on facts,  and you're basing your opinion off of... well who exactly knows? Listen, you're the guy that used his Vita as his cell phone for years, and thought it was fantastic. Can you accept that perhaps your perspective represents a very tiny small fraction of consumers, and maybe you need to rely on others to get a more grounded perspective for what say a hundred million gamers would want?

That's the problem. You think their ecosystems are wrong. I don't see a problem with them. Considering Sony and MS have sold 25 million more PS4/X1s than they did PS3/X360s up to this point appears to indicate that their ecosystems are actually not only wrong, but thriving. Just because people didn't prefer to carry around both a phone and a handheld game console doesn't mean that they care nearly as much whether they have one box connected to their tv or three. Considering how things like the NES and SNES classic have sold, I really, really don't think people care too much. You've yet to demonstrate there is actually a serious threat to Sony, MS and Nintendo in the home console space even a little, that if Apple convinces Rockstar to release GTA VI for iOS at $60, Sony and MS are going to watch the sales of GTA VI on their consoles nosedive. You've yet to demonstrate that assuming its' possible the ability to play AAA games on your phone using touchpad controls is something people are a) interested in b) willing to pay for and c) willing to buy a Google console over a Sony/MS/Nintendo console just to get it if those ecosystems don't offer it. You just assume that all of that is true. How about providing some fact based reasoning for why you think it's true, and if you can't, perhaps admit that saying things like "the writing is on the wall" is maybe, just maybe completely overblown.

Furthermore you've yet to demonstrate that the best solution to the apparent problem of Apple and Google potentially bombing in and fucking with Sony/MS/Apple's day in the home console space this is to make more devices in multiple form factors for different primary purposes all running the same OS and all able to run the same software, and not to make consoles so compelling that people will still choose them over what Apple and Google are offering. So if you got some compelling reasons why this is not only the best solution, but the only solution Sony/MS/Nintendo should be considering, now is the time, because the baseless assertions aren't cutting it.

Last edited by potato_hamster - on 03 July 2018