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Forums - Movies & TV - Solo Headed To Become A Flop? Yep, It Flopped.

 

How Much Will Solo Make WW?

Under $700M 56 60.87%
 
$700M-$800M 18 19.57%
 
$801M-$900M 12 13.04%
 
$901M-$1B 3 3.26%
 
Over $1B 3 3.26%
 
Total:92
thismeintiel said:
Angelus said:
It's really interesting to me how aggressively a lot of people are pushing the narrative that the Star Wars fanbase is rebelling against Kennedy's direction of the franchise because she's pushing an ideology. First off, Star Wars has always pushed an ideology. Maybe you didn't notice, but George Lucas had a lot to say, and he wasn't subtle either. That aside though, to me this is really a lot simpler than that. These movies are leaving a bad taste, because;

1. They are very, very poorly written. Both in the overarching plot, and the moment to moment action.
2. They are unwilling to be creative, and chart new territory, yet simultaneously disrespect key lore elements and characters.
3. Kennedy has shown extreme disregard towards anything critical the fans have to say.

The first point on its own, fans would likely be willing to forgive. After all, they did so for the prequels to various degrees. Combined with 2, and 3 though….you're asking for trouble. Chances are, Kennedy never really liked Star Wars. She doesn't get what people gravitate to about it, so all she seems to distill it down to is the visual elements. Once you get past that surface level stuff, she doesn't have a clue, and if you sat down with her and talked to her off the record with some truth serum, I bet she'd admit it too.

It's not the entire fanbase, but a very good chunk of it.  95% of people don't fall on the far Left, as some on this board wish to think.  There are a lot of people who are center-right, right, and even center-left, who are tired of the agendas, especially when pushed so heavily by filmmakers.  And that doesn't just include on screen.  When you are actively ridiculing a fanbase, just because they don't support all of your political ideals, that turns a lot of people off of you and your film.  Including those who probably agree with you more than they do some of the fanbase. 

And a lot of the things you talk about in 1-3 are direct results of them following that agenda. 

arcaneguyver said:
After TLJ my only interest in Disney Star Wars is watching it crumble.

The Force Awakens and Rogue One show pretty clearly, the "general public" has no problem with female leads or people of color in Star Wars, just a small whiny side section of people that can't deal with anything different. 

The Last Jedi has legit issues with the fanbase because of Luke Skywalker's characterization, but the fact is he's dead or a ghost and either he was an old fart and was never going to be that big of a part of the future. That won't be on future films to have to worry about. IX will likely benefit a lot from not having Luke baggage to deal with and can go back to focusing on Rey + Finn + Poe which worked well in TFA. 



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morenoingrato said:
Angelus said:

Funny how you are quite willing to use examples of things that have never actually materialized in any sort recognizable way on screen, and only actually been said by people away from the context of the movies, yet you're willing to write off George Lucas' statements away from the context of the movie. Listen man, there's plenty to not like about these new Star Wars movies, but the truth is you're going out of your way to find more things to hate. 

This thread is the first time in my life where I heard about characters being gay and pansexual and who knows what else. Does Finn ever acknowledge being black or is it ever mentioned in any way (ala Black Panther main villain)?  Is the fact Rey is a girl ever mentioned? I really don't recall.

Hell, I'm personally against pushing agendas for the sake of it, but all of these SJW conspiracy is really stretching it, to say the least.

I'll reply to both of you in the same post, pardon my laziness:

 

@Angelus Yeah, I put in three things that aren't said in the movies, though the first two are indeed front and center for TFA (and the first being even more prominent in TLJ). I never dismissed Lucas' comments, I called attention to how subtle he was in its implementation as opposed to Kennedy having SJW rhetoric lacing every inch of every new character. And for the record: I enjoy that there is diversity in the main cast. Poe being gay works as a great subversion of the effeminate gay archetype. Finn being black rightfully is never really touched upon, and instead focuses on him as a person (a deeply, wonderfully flawed person who had a wonderful character arc that is still fucking unfinished); it never mattered that he was black because there are fat-bottomed blue people with wings that have an immunity to the force. And Rey was a giant dumpster fire of Mary Sue tropes. If they'd stopped her perfection at being an expert-level scavenger (good at fixing, flying, and brawling), she would have been a great character. But nooooo, she's a master in those things and she's a force savant the likes of which Anakin couldn't even compare to. 

 

@morenoingrato Not sure how, unless you just don't follow current events. It was kind of hush when they said Poe was gay (or should be? could be? it was vague), but it was kind of a big deal when they said Lando was pan. No, Finn doesn't need to acknowledge he's black because Admiral Ackbar is a fucking fish and no one cares. I mean, Rey being female it doesn't need to be mentioned, it's kind of apparent. And there is a clear SJW agenda in Star Wars at this point: 



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Soundwave said:
Faelco said:
Soundwave, you're acting like if the only other option is to fire her and get a newbie to do the job. Why?

Is it really inconceivable for you that they could give another of their big franchises to Kennedy and get another big producer (is she the only one in Hollywood?) to take Star Wars? The fans are happy, her image is safe, Disney can hope for a better trend... Minimal harm in this scenario.

Just like "Don Mattrick got hired by Zinga, so we put his number two at his place". Perfectly normal in any kind of industry.

It's not going to happen because anyone who really has any real understanding of how that industry works knows full well how that goes. Past that a lot of this is nonsense, 3 $1 billion grossing films out of 4 (soon to be 4/5) is remarkable business for any franchise, one misstep with Solo that wasn't even Disney's idea is not going to cause a change anywhere. If anything Solo not doing great business just shows they shouldn't use any of Lucas' ideas and were right to scrap his trilogy in favor of going with JJ Abrams.

As posted above Pixar in their entire 20+ years history with Disney only has 2 movies total that have hit a billion. Marvel only has 5, despite having almost 20 films produced. 

The reality is it's far more likely that Obi-Wan movie that the fanboys were oogling about actually now gets iced for a few years in favor of focusing back on the big money trilogy films. 

http://www.indiewire.com/2013/09/disney-jerry-bruckheimer-will-part-ways-in-2014-producer-studio-say-lone-ranger-not-to-blame-93423/

 

And Jerry Bruckheimer was a newbie with no record at all? An unknown producer, right?

 

And yet they fired him after one fail with The Lone Ranger. Oh, sorry, they "didn't renew their partnership but will keep working together, Lone Ranger is not to blame". How similar to the possible scenario I explained.

 

And stop overselling Kennedy for making billion dollars movies with Star Wars. Any monkey with Disney money, marketing and the Star Wars IP would have made The Force Awakens into a billion dollar movie, regardless of its quality. 



Faelco said:
Soundwave said:

It's not going to happen because anyone who really has any real understanding of how that industry works knows full well how that goes. Past that a lot of this is nonsense, 3 $1 billion grossing films out of 4 (soon to be 4/5) is remarkable business for any franchise, one misstep with Solo that wasn't even Disney's idea is not going to cause a change anywhere. If anything Solo not doing great business just shows they shouldn't use any of Lucas' ideas and were right to scrap his trilogy in favor of going with JJ Abrams.

As posted above Pixar in their entire 20+ years history with Disney only has 2 movies total that have hit a billion. Marvel only has 5, despite having almost 20 films produced. 

The reality is it's far more likely that Obi-Wan movie that the fanboys were oogling about actually now gets iced for a few years in favor of focusing back on the big money trilogy films. 

http://www.indiewire.com/2013/09/disney-jerry-bruckheimer-will-part-ways-in-2014-producer-studio-say-lone-ranger-not-to-blame-93423/

 

And Jerry Bruckheimer was a newbie with no record at all? An unknown producer, right?

 

And yet they fired him after one fail with The Lone Ranger. Oh, sorry, they "didn't renew their partnership but will keep working together, Lone Ranger is not to blame". How similar to the possible scenario I explained.

 

And stop overselling Kennedy for making billion dollars movies with Star Wars. Any monkey with Disney money, marketing and the Star Wars IP would have made The Force Awakens into a billion dollar movie, regardless of its quality. 

Apparently it isn't that easy to make a billion+ picture.

Marvel is 5/19 (25%)

Pixar is 2/19 (10.5%)

Lucas went 1/3 on the prequels (33%) 

X-Men + Deadpool is 0/7 (0%)

Fast & Furious Series is 2/8 (25%)

Harry Potter is 1/8 (12.5%)

Disney Star Wars is 3/4 (75%) soon to be 80%. 

Surprisingly ...

Pirates of the Caribbean is 2/5 ... so 40% ... so when people keep "why the fuck do they keep making these movies", there's your answer. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 27 May 2018

Azuren said:
morenoingrato said:

This thread is the first time in my life where I heard about characters being gay and pansexual and who knows what else. Does Finn ever acknowledge being black or is it ever mentioned in any way (ala Black Panther main villain)?  Is the fact Rey is a girl ever mentioned? I really don't recall.

Hell, I'm personally against pushing agendas for the sake of it, but all of these SJW conspiracy is really stretching it, to say the least.

I'll reply to both of you in the same post, pardon my laziness:

 

@Angelus Yeah, I put in three things that aren't said in the movies, though the first two are indeed front and center for TFA (and the first being even more prominent in TLJ). I never dismissed Lucas' comments, I called attention to how subtle he was in its implementation as opposed to Kennedy having SJW rhetoric lacing every inch of every new character. And for the record: I enjoy that there is diversity in the main cast. Poe being gay works as a great subversion of the effeminate gay archetype. Finn being black rightfully is never really touched upon, and instead focuses on him as a person (a deeply, wonderfully flawed person who had a wonderful character arc that is still fucking unfinished); it never mattered that he was black because there are fat-bottomed blue people with wings that have an immunity to the force. And Rey was a giant dumpster fire of Mary Sue tropes. If they'd stopped her perfection at being an expert-level scavenger (good at fixing, flying, and brawling), she would have been a great character. But nooooo, she's a master in those things and she's a force savant the likes of which Anakin couldn't even compare to. 

 

@morenoingrato Not sure how, unless you just don't follow current events. It was kind of hush when they said Poe was gay (or should be? could be? it was vague), but it was kind of a big deal when they said Lando was pan. No, Finn doesn't need to acknowledge he's black because Admiral Ackbar is a fucking fish and no one cares. I mean, Rey being female it doesn't need to be mentioned, it's kind of apparent. And there is a clear SJW agenda in Star Wars at this point: 

The movie is therefore not pushing an SJW agenda if Finn's race or Rey's gender have no bearing in the main plot. Is Rey a Mary Sue? Sure, and that is poor writing, but we can probably find dozens of protagonists in dozens of moves where that is the case as well.

I'll admit that I was not aware that "officially" those two characters are supposed to be gay/pansexual/genderfluid/whatever. But had you gone without any negative preconceptions to those movies, it is literally impossible to tell. There is not a millisecond of indication and it has no impact plot in any way whatsoever. Half the cast could be gay and it changes nothing, literally nothing. It's like when Dumbledore was gay. So what?

I do not know the circumstances behind that Tweet and it sounds like a knee-jerk reaction, but I can see it being a response to people imagining SJWs and political agendas everywhere.



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Soundwave said:
Faelco said:

http://www.indiewire.com/2013/09/disney-jerry-bruckheimer-will-part-ways-in-2014-producer-studio-say-lone-ranger-not-to-blame-93423/

 

And Jerry Bruckheimer was a newbie with no record at all? An unknown producer, right?

 

And yet they fired him after one fail with The Lone Ranger. Oh, sorry, they "didn't renew their partnership but will keep working together, Lone Ranger is not to blame". How similar to the possible scenario I explained.

 

And stop overselling Kennedy for making billion dollars movies with Star Wars. Any monkey with Disney money, marketing and the Star Wars IP would have made The Force Awakens into a billion dollar movie, regardless of its quality. 

Apparently it isn't that easy to make a billion+ picture.

Marvel is 5/19 (25%)

Pixar is 2/19 (10.5%)

Lucas went 1/3 on the prequels (33%) 

Disney Star Wars is 3/4 (75%) soon to be 80%. 


Are you really trying to compare Ant-Man, Doctor Strange or The good dinosaur to Star Wars? Really? How can you even think like that? Star Wars is one of the biggest franchise ever, the only thing remotely comparable is the full Avengers, not individual superheroes 90% of the audience never heard about before. And Pixar movies have never been billion dollars franchises, they're kids movies before anything else.

 

On the prequels, you forget to take inflation in consideration, 850 millions 15 years ago is no different than 1 billion today. And again, it was without the power of Disney and the "What will Disney do with SW?" expectations.

 

Any fan made story would have been a billion dollars hit for the Disney Star Wars rebirth, you won't be able to change my mind on that. 



Faelco said:
Soundwave said:

Apparently it isn't that easy to make a billion+ picture.

Marvel is 5/19 (25%)

Pixar is 2/19 (10.5%)

Lucas went 1/3 on the prequels (33%) 

Disney Star Wars is 3/4 (75%) soon to be 80%. 


Are you really trying to compare Ant-Man, Doctor Strange or The good dinosaur to Star Wars? Really? How can you even think like that? Star Wars is one of the biggest franchise ever, the only thing remotely comparable is the full Avengers, not individual superheroes 90% of the audience never heard about before. And Pixar movies have never been billion dollars franchises, they're kids movies before anything else.

 

On the prequels, you forget to take inflation in consideration, 850 millions 15 years ago is no different than 1 billion today. And again, it was without the power of Disney and the "What will Disney do with SW?" expectations.

 

Any fan made story would have been a billion dollars hit for the Disney Star Wars rebirth, you won't be able to change my mind on that. 

Yet the prequels struggled to hit $1 billion consistently and got overshadowed by the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Funny that. 



morenoingrato said:
Azuren said:

I'll reply to both of you in the same post, pardon my laziness:

 

@Angelus Yeah, I put in three things that aren't said in the movies, though the first two are indeed front and center for TFA (and the first being even more prominent in TLJ). I never dismissed Lucas' comments, I called attention to how subtle he was in its implementation as opposed to Kennedy having SJW rhetoric lacing every inch of every new character. And for the record: I enjoy that there is diversity in the main cast. Poe being gay works as a great subversion of the effeminate gay archetype. Finn being black rightfully is never really touched upon, and instead focuses on him as a person (a deeply, wonderfully flawed person who had a wonderful character arc that is still fucking unfinished); it never mattered that he was black because there are fat-bottomed blue people with wings that have an immunity to the force. And Rey was a giant dumpster fire of Mary Sue tropes. If they'd stopped her perfection at being an expert-level scavenger (good at fixing, flying, and brawling), she would have been a great character. But nooooo, she's a master in those things and she's a force savant the likes of which Anakin couldn't even compare to. 

 

@morenoingrato Not sure how, unless you just don't follow current events. It was kind of hush when they said Poe was gay (or should be? could be? it was vague), but it was kind of a big deal when they said Lando was pan. No, Finn doesn't need to acknowledge he's black because Admiral Ackbar is a fucking fish and no one cares. I mean, Rey being female it doesn't need to be mentioned, it's kind of apparent. And there is a clear SJW agenda in Star Wars at this point: 

The movie is therefore not pushing an SJW agenda if Finn's race or Rey's gender have no bearing in the main plot. Is Rey a Mary Sue? Sure, and that is poor writing, but we can probably find dozens of protagonists in dozens of moves where that is the case as well.

I'll admit that I was not aware that "officially" those two characters are supposed to be gay/pansexual/genderfluid/whatever. But had you gone without any negative preconceptions to those movies, it is literally impossible to tell. There is not a millisecond of indication and it has no impact plot in any way whatsoever. Half the cast could be gay and it changes nothing, literally nothing. It's like when Dumbledore was gay. So what?

I do not know the circumstances behind that Tweet and it sounds like a knee-jerk reaction, but I can see it being a response to people imagining SJWs and political agendas everywhere.

Not everything has to be clearly stated, but Jonathan Kasdar has clearly stated it. And I firmly don't support anything that has a blatant Mary Sue character in it.

 

I have no problem with inclusion, but I also don't care to muddy things up with useless information just for the sake of virtue signaling. "Lando is pando". Cool, does it come up? No? Then who fucking cares? I also don't care for unrealistic collections of tokens. Like in TLJ: strong independent Mary Sue, gay ace pilot, black guy, and an asian bitch all team up to take down a white guy and his white guy friends who all work for an evil old prick. HMM.



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shikamaru317 said:
Soundwave said:

Apparently it isn't that easy to make a billion+ picture.

Marvel is 5/19 (25%)

Pixar is 2/19 (10.5%)

Lucas went 1/3 on the prequels (33%) 

X-Men + Deadpool is 0/7 (0%)

Fast & Furious Series is 2/8 (25%)

Disney Star Wars is 3/4 (75%) soon to be 80%. 

Like he said, Jerry Bruckheimer produced two $1b+ movies for Disney (3 that did $900m+) and they dropped him faster than a live grenade after Lone Ranger flopped. It's not too much of a stretch to believe that they would drop Kathleen Kennedy when her Star Wars movies are tending downward (TLJ made less than TFA and Solo made less than Rogue One), Solo is looking like a straight up flop, and Star Wars toy sales are down by 56%. 

 

shikamaru317 said:
Soundwave said:

Apparently it isn't that easy to make a billion+ picture.

Marvel is 5/19 (25%)

Pixar is 2/19 (10.5%)

Lucas went 1/3 on the prequels (33%) 

X-Men + Deadpool is 0/7 (0%)

Fast & Furious Series is 2/8 (25%)

Disney Star Wars is 3/4 (75%) soon to be 80%. 

Like he said, Jerry Bruckheimer produced two $1b+ movies for Disney (3 that did $900m+) and they dropped him faster than a live grenade after Lone Ranger flopped. It's not too much of a stretch to believe that they would drop Kathleen Kennedy when her Star Wars movies are tending downward (TLJ made less than TFA and Solo made less than Rogue One), Solo is looking like a straight up flop, and Star Wars toy sales are down by 56%. 

Jerry Bruckheimer still works for Disney, what are you talking about? He's producing a sixth Pirates of the Caribbean movie for them along with a third National Treasure movie. 



morenoingrato said:
Angelus said:

Funny how you are quite willing to use examples of things that have never actually materialized in any sort recognizable way on screen, and only actually been said by people away from the context of the movies, yet you're willing to write off George Lucas' statements away from the context of the movie. Listen man, there's plenty to not like about these new Star Wars movies, but the truth is you're going out of your way to find more things to hate. 

This thread is the first time in my life where I heard about characters being gay and pansexual and who knows what else. Does Finn ever acknowledge being black or is it ever mentioned in any way (ala Black Panther main villain)?  Is the fact Rey is a girl ever mentioned? I really don't recall.

Hell, I'm personally against pushing agendas for the sake of it, but all of these SJW conspiracy is really stretching it, to say the least.

I cant name a single thing Rey has ever done that made me look up to her or admire her. She is the literal definition of lazy agenda writing and is by far the biggest Mary Sue I've ever seen in films. She has no qualities of a great Jedi. She has done absolutely nothing to earn her skills, and yet she can somehow pilot an old clunker and get a triple kill in one shot. She has no training and can beat the greatest Jedi who ever lived. She isn't necessarily pushing agenda directly, but she's so lazily fleshed out that it gives the audience a perceived notion that she's only good at everything BECAUSE she's a woman. I wont complain about Finn because unlike Rey he has an intriguing backstory and could've been strong and interesting as a character if Episode VIII wasn't so terribly fleshed out. Finn isn't a victim to laziness because unlike Rey he had a proper setup. Rey always had these powers that were beyond human, but they are confirmed to come from nowhere. Rey could have been an interesting character, but she has no proper backstory and has not earned anything (that and her actor gives very terrible comebacks to try and 'combat' these claims). 

If you want a good female character in Star Wars, Leah is basically the textbook example, but I'd even include Asokah from the Clone Wars. They are great and powerful, but them being the woman isn't the sole reason for their existence. I would also say the same would work vice versa if Rey was a male. If you want to put a woman in a lead role, that's great and more power to you, but please for the love of God don't let them be so powerful solely because they're a woman.