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Star Fox Grand Prix?! O_O

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Mar1217 said:
curl-6 said:

I still don't think that would work at all; the characters look fine as they are in Zero, toon shading does not belong in every series and it does not belong in Starfox, the series already has a working established aesthetic.

Going from low shapped polygons to better polygons, then switching aesthetic direction in Adventures and so on with Assault then Command tells me otherwise.

They can certainly find a middle ground as suggested by Nuvendil.

I mean it's just my wish as it is yours.

That's technological advancement, a series cannot go from SNES to Wii U levels of fidelity without the visuals changing in accordance with available technology. Using toon characters though would undermine the established style. Why have tacky undetailed toons when we can have awesome fur-shaded and properly textured characters, Starfox Adventures style with the fidelty of Mario Odyssey?

Last edited by curl-6 - on 26 May 2018

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curl-6 said:
Mar1217 said:

Going from low shapped polygons to better polygons, then switching aesthetic direction in Adventures and so on with Assault then Command tells me otherwise.

They can certainly find a middle ground as suggested by Nuvendil.

I mean it's just my wish as it is yours.

That's technological advancement, a series cannot go from SNES to Wii U levels of fidelity without the visuals changing in accordance with available technology. Using toon characters though would undermine the established style. Why have tacky undetailed toons when we can have awesome fur-shaded and properly textures characters, Starfox Adventures style with the fidelty of Mario Odyssey?

That's almost asking if I wanna see that face again ... but in HD 

 

My answer is no.



Switch Friend Code : 3905-6122-2909 

Mar1217 said:
curl-6 said:

That's technological advancement, a series cannot go from SNES to Wii U levels of fidelity without the visuals changing in accordance with available technology. Using toon characters though would undermine the established style. Why have tacky undetailed toons when we can have awesome fur-shaded and properly textures characters, Starfox Adventures style with the fidelty of Mario Odyssey?

That's almost asking if I wanna see that face again ... but in HD 

 

My answer is no.

Better than having flat renderings with no detail or nuance.

This is what Starfox is supposed to look like.

Also, that's running on hardware from 2001. On Switch I'd look vastly superior.

Not just "in HD" but better facial geometry and animation, overall detail, fur, texturing, lighting...

Last edited by curl-6 - on 26 May 2018

(Double post)



curl-6 said:
Nuvendil said:

Ok toon shading and soft shading aren't the same thing, just to be clear :P

And Star Fox sorta does.  They've made more than a few tweaks and adjustments over time.

I think an approach with more detailed materials can work.  More akin to, say, Super Mario Odyssey or a Pixar film.  

The extra power of the Switch would really benefit the existing aesthetic though; Fox and Peppy could have awesome fur effects, think Starfox Adventures but with Odyssey levels of fidelity. That would be a much better fit than just using soft/toon shading as a copout not to have to render fine detail.

Exceptionally high quality soft shading is not a copout.  Especially if it is done in service of greater details elsewhere.  Xenoblade 2 and Dragon Quest XI both show that.  Though DQXI has a bit more textural detail than Xenoblade 2 does on characters.  

I can see all options discussed here working fine and looking fine.



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curl-6 said:
Mar1217 said:

That's almost asking if I wanna see that face again ... but in HD 

 

My answer is no.

Better than having flat renderings with no detail or nuance.

This is what Starfox is supposed to look like.

Also, that's running on hardware from 2001. On Switch I'd look vastly superior.

Not just "in HD" but better facial geometry and animation, overall detail, fur, texturing, lighting...

So I guess you wanna have something more akin to that ?



Switch Friend Code : 3905-6122-2909 

Nuvendil said:
curl-6 said:

The extra power of the Switch would really benefit the existing aesthetic though; Fox and Peppy could have awesome fur effects, think Starfox Adventures but with Odyssey levels of fidelity. That would be a much better fit than just using soft/toon shading as a copout not to have to render fine detail.

Exceptionally high quality soft shading is not a copout.  Especially if it is done in service of greater details elsewhere.  Xenoblade 2 and Dragon Quest XI both show that.  Though DQXI has a bit more textural detail than Xenoblade 2 does on characters.  

I can see all options discussed here working fine and looking fine.

XB2's characters did really lack detail though.

Mar1217 said:
curl-6 said:

Better than having flat renderings with no detail or nuance.

This is what Starfox is supposed to look like.

Also, that's running on hardware from 2001. On Switch I'd look vastly superior.

Not just "in HD" but better facial geometry and animation, overall detail, fur, texturing, lighting...

So I guess you wanna have something more akin to that ?

Not so much, more like their in-game rendering just with improved fidelity in all areas due to the extra power of the Switch



curl-6 said:
Nuvendil said:

Exceptionally high quality soft shading is not a copout.  Especially if it is done in service of greater details elsewhere.  Xenoblade 2 and Dragon Quest XI both show that.  Though DQXI has a bit more textural detail than Xenoblade 2 does on characters.  

I can see all options discussed here working fine and looking fine.

XB2's characters did really lack detail though.

Mar1217 said:

So I guess you wanna have something more akin to that ?

Not so much, more like their in-game rendering just with improved fidelity in all areas due to the extra power of the Switch

Not really in their armor and clothes so much.  And again, it was in servjce of pushing higher details elsewhere.  The increased folliage density, 6 characters on screen as part of your party vs 4, all the numerous engine enhancements, etc.



Nuvendil said:
curl-6 said:

XB2's characters did really lack detail though.

Not so much, more like their in-game rendering just with improved fidelity in all areas due to the extra power of the Switch

Not really in their armor and clothes so much.  And again, it was in servjce of pushing higher details elsewhere.  The increased folliage density, 6 characters on screen as part of your party vs 4, all the numerous engine enhancements, etc.

There's no need for such tradeoffs in Starfox though. It is not an open world game. You don't need to cut back on character detail, especially if, going by rumours, you'll mostly be looking at a vehicle during gameplay. I remember some references to a hub where you walk around as Fox, but really, that's hardly going to be so demanding that you need to strip the characters of detail.



curl-6 said:
Nuvendil said:

Not really in their armor and clothes so much.  And again, it was in servjce of pushing higher details elsewhere.  The increased folliage density, 6 characters on screen as part of your party vs 4, all the numerous engine enhancements, etc.

There's no need for such tradeoffs in Starfox though. It is not an open world game. You don't need to cut back on character detail, especially if, going by rumours, you'll mostly be looking at a vehicle during gameplay. I remember some references to a hub where you walk around as Fox, but really, that's hardly going to be so demanding that you need to strip the characters of detail.

True enough.  I don't think they need to go full cel shaded or anything.  But some stylization could look just fine if that's what they want to do. And as you said, the emphasis is on the environment and vehicles moreso than the likes of Xenoblade or Dragon Quest.  So the designs and rendering o the characters is mostly for cinematics.  So in this instance I would say it is purely a stylistic decision.  Whatever they choose will impact neither the look nor graphical demandingness of the game in any real way.