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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Dragon Quest XI for Switch delay due UE4, game based on PS4 version of game, why was announced for Switch so early

fatslob-:O said:
Nuvendil said:

That's an awful high and mighty tone you're taking, lumping everyone who dares question Square here is an ignorant, entitled dimwit.  Square set these expectations up. I'm not expecting Switch versions to be conjured from the ether.  But they've had dev kits for a year and a half, possibly longer.  UE4 received its Switch compatibility updates twelve months ago.  Multiple devs porting either more demanding games - Doom and Wolfenstein 2 are obvious examples given id Tech 6 was never intended for any mobile SOC - or UE4 games either have the games out already or have progress to show.  Square has nothing.  Going by this statement, it sounds like they haven't even started or barely have.  If they had said, hey DQXI is coming in November or Q1 2019 and had some footage or screens to show, a lot of people like me would have been fine.  Still would suck but hey.  But this?  Having fuck all to show after a year and a half with the dev kits and over a year with official Unreal Engine 4 support for it and then telling everyone you basically have done nothing and have not a single picture to show?  That's just embarassing.  And of course let's forget they set these standards.  They've had no issue bringign their other announced games so they clearly aren't sitting on their hands like Capcom.  They also announced this game going on 2 years ago for Switch.  They reaffirmed it January 2017.  If this game was such an insurmountable, herculean task (a hilarious notion but I'll play devil's advocate), they should have kept their darn mouths' shut if they didn't want people to hold them to any kind of standard or accountability. 

Well, Square are the ones with the engineers here with internal knowledge so they probably do know what they're doing

Going to stop you right there.
If it's Square's engineers working on this, then I'd say it is clear they do NOT know what they are doing. :P

They've been bungling everything lately.

Enix should get someone more competent like Nintendo, Level 5, or even Chunsoft, for the next game.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Jumpin said:
fatslob-:O said:

Well, Square are the ones with the engineers here with internal knowledge so they probably do know what they're doing

Going to stop you right there.
If it's Square's engineers working on this, then I'd say it is clear they do NOT know what they are doing. :P

They've been bungling everything lately.

Enix should get someone more competent like Nintendo, Level 5, or even Chunsoft, for the next game.

It's like you have to add at least two years to the development cycle of any internally developed SE game.  Like, if SE announces a new in-house game at E3 for the PS4/XB1, I'm expecting it to be transferred over to the PS5/XB2 three years later, released in 2024, announced for the 'Switch 2' in 2023 and then have it be ported over in 2026.



melbye said:
So what he is saying is there won't be a Switch-version and now they are going drag it for eternity until nobody is asking for it anymore

i think you’re right. at some point he’ll be saying “it’s been so long, there’s no interest anymore” like it was ever going to happen and that it’s the consumer’s fault it never did.



Thechalkblock said:
melbye said:
So what he is saying is there won't be a Switch-version and now they are going drag it for eternity until nobody is asking for it anymore

i think you’re right. at some point he’ll be saying “it’s been so long, there’s no interest anymore” like it was ever going to happen and that it’s the consumer’s fault it never did.

Hardly that will be case, they invested (and they still inveting) time and money in Switch version of game, offcourse that SE want to see profit at end, canceling game would be throwing money through window.



Miyamotoo said:

Hardly that will be case, they invested (and they still inveting) time and money in Switch version of game, offcourse that SE want to see profit at end, canceling game would be throwing money through window.

it sounds to me like they’re finding the port harder to accomplish than they originally thought. it might come to the point where they decide to cut their losses if complications for the port continue and the work takes (or will take) too long for them to commit further.

who knows for sure. i hope the game makes it to switch eventually as i’d buy it, but i’m going to take a more cautious approach in my expectations. maybe it’s because this kind of thing happened to me far too often with the wii u.



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Thechalkblock said:
Miyamotoo said:

Hardly that will be case, they invested (and they still inveting) time and money in Switch version of game, offcourse that SE want to see profit at end, canceling game would be throwing money through window.

it sounds to me like they’re finding the port harder to accomplish than they originally thought. it might come to the point where they decide to cut their losses if complications for the port continue and the work takes (or will take) too long for them to commit further.

who knows for sure. i hope the game makes it to switch eventually as i’d buy it, but i’m going to take a more cautious approach in my expectations. maybe it’s because this kind of thing happened to me far too often with the wii u.

In that case they wouldn't again confirmed Switch release, and again saying that game is coming to West also. With information we having (that PS4 West release is more remaster compred to Japanese release), it seems that they using updated version of engine for Switch also, but with point they most likly porting PS4 version, PS4 version will be out first.



Jumpin said:

Going to stop you right there.
If it's Square's engineers working on this, then I'd say it is clear they do NOT know what they are doing. :P

They've been bungling everything lately.

Enix should get someone more competent like Nintendo, Level 5, or even Chunsoft, for the next game.

Bwahaha, OK I admit that's funny ... 

Do they even have the same standards as Square ? LOL



fatslob-:O said:
Jumpin said:

Going to stop you right there.
If it's Square's engineers working on this, then I'd say it is clear they do NOT know what they are doing. :P

They've been bungling everything lately.

Enix should get someone more competent like Nintendo, Level 5, or even Chunsoft, for the next game.

Bwahaha, OK I admit that's funny ... 

Do they even have the same standards as Square ? LOL

Hate to butt in, but maybe the Square part of the company has high standards that are almost unrivaled but the company behind Dragon Quest, Enix and when it comes down to it Armor Project has a history of outsourcing for graphics engines and animations etc. It wasn't until DQX that development was exclusively in house and even with XI, Armor Project had to hire the art director from I believe it was...ORCA Inc for help with UE4. And of course, you have to start somewhere and learn the engine somehow. But even with Dragon Quest VI and VII the art side was handheld by Arte Piazza and VIII and IX were handheld by Level 5. I'm nowhere near as talented as the staff on Armor Project but it's no secret that they aren't the most forward thinking in the graphics department with XI being their first game to use the PBR pipeline, 8 years after the Square part of the company started using it. 

So, in short while Square Enix as a whole has had high standards before now, Armor Project was new to these high standards and that can translate to issues with porting and overall development. Personally I think Level 5 and Nintendo's Monolith Soft are just as competent as Square.



Ljink96 said:

Hate to butt in, but maybe the Square part of the company has high standards that are almost unrivaled but the company behind Dragon Quest, Enix and when it comes down to it Armor Project has a history of outsourcing for graphics engines and animations etc. It wasn't until DQX that development was exclusively in house and even with XI, Armor Project had to hire the art director from I believe it was...ORCA Inc for help with UE4. And of course, you have to start somewhere and learn the engine somehow. But even with Dragon Quest VI and VII the art side was handheld by Arte Piazza and VIII and IX were handheld by Level 5. I'm nowhere near as talented as the staff on Armor Project but it's no secret that they aren't the most forward thinking in the graphics department with XI being their first game to use the PBR pipeline, 8 years after the Square part of the company started using it. 

So, in short while Square Enix as a whole has had high standards before now, Armor Project was new to these high standards and that can translate to issues with porting and overall development. Personally I think Level 5 and Nintendo's Monolith Soft are just as competent as Square.

Just because Armor Project outsources some of their work doesn't mean that they don't have internal standards to adhere ...

We are talking about a studio who has an exclusive contract to work for Square Enix which are practically in-house developers so them asking for outside help such as Orca/Toylogic is NOT to be taken as a sign of weakness when they get challenged with 4 years of work to make two very different versions of the same title ... 

Are you really sure you want to argue that Armor Project were a bunch of strangers to high end game development when they were developing DQVIII for the PS2 ? (Level-5 was a far smaller studio back then) 

Nearly none of their projects were solely in-house including DQX of which previously Orca supported in the development thereof ... 



fatslob-:O said:
Ljink96 said:

Hate to butt in, but maybe the Square part of the company has high standards that are almost unrivaled but the company behind Dragon Quest, Enix and when it comes down to it Armor Project has a history of outsourcing for graphics engines and animations etc. It wasn't until DQX that development was exclusively in house and even with XI, Armor Project had to hire the art director from I believe it was...ORCA Inc for help with UE4. And of course, you have to start somewhere and learn the engine somehow. But even with Dragon Quest VI and VII the art side was handheld by Arte Piazza and VIII and IX were handheld by Level 5. I'm nowhere near as talented as the staff on Armor Project but it's no secret that they aren't the most forward thinking in the graphics department with XI being their first game to use the PBR pipeline, 8 years after the Square part of the company started using it. 

So, in short while Square Enix as a whole has had high standards before now, Armor Project was new to these high standards and that can translate to issues with porting and overall development. Personally I think Level 5 and Nintendo's Monolith Soft are just as competent as Square.

Just because Armor Project outsources some of their work doesn't mean that they don't have internal standards to adhere ...

We are talking about a studio who has an exclusive contract to work for Square Enix which are practically in-house developers so them asking for outside help such as Orca/Toylogic is NOT to be taken as a sign of weakness when they get challenged with 4 years of work to make two very different versions of the same title ... 

Are you really sure you want to argue that Armor Project were a bunch of strangers to high end game development when they were developing DQVIII for the PS2 ? (Level-5 was a far smaller studio back then) 

Nearly none of their projects were solely in-house including DQX of which previously Orca supported in the development thereof ... 

And that helps your case...how? lol It's not a sign of weakness, it's a sign that they are inexperienced with current gen pipelines, which would affect development time. Armor project has never been ahead of the curve or even on the curve in terms of the art side of game development, coding is coding, they could code in assembley and it'd be a good Dragon Quest mechanically. So yes, they were strangers to it because they never used a PBR engine before XI. They only did the back end of Dragon Quest VIII, and Level 5 did the front end, which is why it looked the way it did. They contracted Level 5 rather than their internal team because they wanted a specific style for DQVIII and possibly learn from Level 5. 

And I didn't say because they outsource they don't have standards, they haven't in the past been as adequate as Square in that department. And we're not bringing up the 3DS version because it's not even being released in the west...it's not being delayed. Why even bring that up? They were well staffed on both versions, and it's a SD game, something they're familiar with. People don't understand the difficulty of working with HD games, hell even Nintendo underestimated it, and for Armor Project it wouldn't have been any different. Nobody is calling anyone weak, just inexperienced and it happens. DQVIII looks the way it does because of Level 5, not Armor Project whom didn't really get 3D all that well until VIII. They're an old fashioned company still, to this day. Really simplistic and they move at their own pace. Nothing wrong with that, but there are repercussions to that.