thismeintiel on 19 December 2017
| superchunk said: 5. Why do people want boring dead environments? Did you see the large sea creature during one of the fly overs of the island? All cool stuff. I loved the porgs (funny), crystal foxes (really cool looking and had a pivotal role in the plot), and the race horse-things were well done even if Finn's overall subplot could have been removed from the movie without any impact to the story line. 4. When I see people bash Luke they are the same people who don't get why Anakin went Darth or why Kylo Ren is Kylo Ren. They simply don't understand the (admittingly weak characterization) emotional state of these characters throughout their lives. Luke's character makes sense when actually pay attention to what he says, does, and fails at doing in the OT and then combine that to what this trilogy is saying happened up to the point of TLJ. Hell, even Yoda hits the nail on the head when he blasts Luke with the same folly Luke is continuously making. Luke is an emotional wreck that has always been whiny and self-defeated. The only movie where he showed any actual confidence was RotJ and that was a facade due to his self-prescribed identity as a full Jedi even though he had zero of the training or guidance of any past Jedi. Ask yourself, why did he wait so long to begin to build a new Jedi order? Because his lack of self-esteem or actual confidence in his ability to train anyone. He knew he would fail and/or his continued fear (called out by Yoda many times) that he'd fail. Then his fear progressed into views of the future which pushed his emotional state to insane action to almost murder his nephew (his own battle of dark/light manifested). This all makes sense. The problem is that people expected to see another Obi Wan when Luke which was silly considering Obi Wan was stable... always. Luke (and Anakin / Kylo) was never emotionally stable. 3. SW never explains everything. We were never told who the Emperor was in the OT. We were never told how the Storm Troopers were trained/created in the OT. You don't know what's going to happen in EP9 yet and I believe in this movie we were deliberately mislead on Rey's parents. Fact is, SW loves its mystery. We may never know who Snoke was beyond a very powerful dark force guy. However, we do know why Luke was hid away and its not hard to determine why the map was left... he does love his sister but didn't want to be pulled back into the fight. 2. Luke's training in force before he started doing basic stuff was minimal as well. Basically identical where they both were just guided to 'use the force', reach out with feelings, etc. There is nothing crazy here. Her fighting Kylo in the last movie was not force specific, but a whole lot of other items. She demonstrated in that movie that she can fight very well. Anakin's pod racing proves that without training force can be used to greatly improve their reactions. On top of that, as I pointed out above, Kylo is emotionally and mentally unstable. He just killed his father in a significantly powerful emotional action. He also was wounded in such a way that very likely would have killed or at least taken out anyone else. Clearly all of that was a major factor in her ability to very briefly get an edge on him. She is very powerful, just as Yoda was or other past powerful Jedi. There is nothing she's doing that is out of the realm of possibility for her. Just people being narrow-minded and not following the full story. I honestly think that if she was male, there would be less bitching. Damn good to see girl power in this movie. Silly to conclude there could be no super powerful female jedi. Girls need superheros too. 1. Luke's part encompassed a combination of Anakin, ObiWan, and Yoda; emotional wreck, self-sacrifice to drive larger goals, and awareness that he needed to back away, that this time / influence was best left out. I think you completely missed major Snoke statements in this movie. He stated that he was the reason why Rey/Kylo Ren were communicating and that he was controlling the visions. That means what they both saw about each other was actually the result of what Snoke wanted them to see. Her parents are not really known yet. That was a lie to break her. I think you and many others need to watch both movies again without pre-conceived notions and think more about the context behind what is going on in this saga. |
5. Hyperbole? So you admit defeat. There is a huge difference in creatures fleshing out the background and the camera focusing in on them so they can do cute things in order to sell toys to little kids. And it's sickening when its so obvious, the cg isn't that great, and there's freaking 3 of them.
4. That's funny, cause there are plenty of people who pay attention to the OG trilogy and that's EXACTLY why they aren't liking the bastardization of Luke's character. And that even includes the guy who plays him. Also, you may have not been paying attention to a very important line by Obi Wan if you think that's how he always was.
Yoda: "I cannot teach him. The boy has no patience."
Obi-Wan: "He will learn patience."
Yoda: "Hmm. Much anger in him, like his father."
Obi-Wan: "Was I any different when you taught me?"
Obi-Wan: "Was I any different when you taught me?"
3. ANH was the beginning of the story. And it had a simple setup that didn't really need explaining, though they did sprinkle some in here and there. An evil Empire vs the small Rebellion. TFA is not the beginning of a story. It is the continuation of one. So, they can't just reset the politics of the galaxy just because they want to recycle the same evil Empire vs small Rebellion. They have to explain how the Empire, which on all accounts lost, was able to grow so large, again, when the rebels would have played a role in creating a New Republic that would have been extremely wary of allowing a new Empire to form. Instead, they make it more like Palpatine and Vader were little peons ruling a single part of the Empire, while an easily fooled Snoke was the true ruler, even though he was never referenced and the galaxy celebrated after defeating the Emperor and Empire.
2. Oh stop that tired out BS excuse, "Well, if she was a man." People had a problem with Anakin, as well. Granted, he wasn't a Mary Sue (except maybe for kids in Ep 1), and had to actually train to take on a Sith Lord, unlike Rey. In fact, he got his freaking hand cut off because he wasn't up to snuff. There's a reason people, even those who excused it in TFA, are opening their eyes to the fact that she is a Mary Sue. Which is really sad, because Daisy Ridley, and the SW universe, deserves better than a fan fiction character. There is a reason people are finding fault with her, but still adore Ripley, Sarah Conner, and Princess Leia. It's because they are actual characters, not the best at everything they choose to do.
And no Luke had MUCH more training than Rey, who actually had NONE, before he did the things she did. All he did in the first film was use it to target something. It wasn't til he trained with Yoda was he able to use it more effectively. Hell, on Hoth it took incredible concentration to bring the lightsaber to him. In TFA, Rey actually out Jedi's Kylo, bringing the lightsaber to her when he was willing it to him. It wasn't til ROTJ before he did a mind trick. Again, something she did with ABSOLUTELY NO training. And don't give me that "Oh, but Kylo's unstable" BS. He still should have almost a complete mastering of it by now. He was able to hold a blaster shot in midair while he had a conversation with someone. He's been training for at least a decade, if not two. And even when he has outbursts, he's still used the Force effectively. But, Rey, without a single bit of training can take him on? And then with one 10 second lesson, she can take on elite guards? Obvious Mary Sue.
1. Again, lame excuses. All these excuses for Luke go out the window when you have the fact that he made a map to his exact location. If it's because he loved his sister, and wanted her to still be able to get to him (which is the ONLY thing that makes sense) why not go be by her side to begin with? He screwed up, yet leaves her by herself to deal with it. She's got a greater shot at dying without him there to help. And then when someone does come to say they need him, "Fuck you and fuck my sister!"
Sure, he said that. But, he also said he could read Kylo's every thought, yet he couldn't, and died because of it. And because he has shitty hearing and peripheral vision. They also did the same Force connection, even though he was already dead. Again, maybe I'm not the one who needs to pay closer attention.
| Darashiva said: The Last Jedi was a very good film in my opinion, better than The Force Awakens, although I liked that too, and better than the prequel trilogy as well. As far as the complains I've heard, Luke had always been a character who overcorrected on his mistakes and acted on instinct, so him becoming despondent over his failure to recreate the Jedi order seems perfectly in line with how he always was. As for Rey being a Mary Sue, not even close. Being a Mary Sue is not just about having power or abilites, but being perfect and not having a clear personality and flaws, and Rey is not even close to being that. She's overeager, slef-absorbed, shortsighter refuses to acknowledge her own past despite seemingly having always known deep down about her past, acts without thinking things through, and even hates herself and her origin to a certain extent. |
Mary Sue - A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often, this character is recognized as an author insertion or wish fulfillment. They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience.
Hmm. Sounds familiar.
Nymeria said:
This statement and attitude are insulting to women. It is not girl power that is the issue, it is bad characterization and lazy writing that undercut Rey. If all you need to care about a character is a superficial trait that is a narrow minded viewpoint. I loved Leia, Luke, and Han for their distinct personalities and skills that aided them in their struggles, not race or sex. Growing up two of my favorite movie series were Alien and Aliens alongside Terminator 1&2. Both had women I connected with because it didn't shy from their challenges giving cheap shortcuts. They were women, and aspects such as motherhood played a role in their stories, but they weren't defined by it. In real life women have struggles all the time and are not bailed out by being chosen ones who can do anything with ease. Condescending to us with lesser heroes who can never fail or lose because we're so delicate is off putting. If you want to understand how patronizing this is, think of the times older people try to be "hip" using internet memes to cringe effect. You cannot force a character on people, it is the "Poochy Effect". |
Preach it, sister.
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