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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Switch Is Succeeding Without Blue Ocean Casuals, Nintendo Should Not Forget This.

DonFerrari said:
KungKras said:

It is a disruptive product though.

One day mobile technology will be "good enough" for everyone.

Then what will happen to the stationary consoles?

EDIT: This is textbook 'Innovator's dilemma'

There will always be market for dedicated HW.

I think he is talking about hybrid consoles replacing stationary consoles. 



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killeryoshis said:
DonFerrari said:

There will always be market for dedicated HW.

I think he is talking about hybrid consoles replacing stationary consoles. 

Yes he was, or cellphones replacing all...

Yet, a lot of us would be happier with a better and cheaper option still plugged to our tv.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Azuren said:
I like how Rol came here not to directly contest anything Soundwave said, but to bring attention to the fact that it was Soundwave who said it.

I don't like Soundwave anymore than the next person, but I would classify attempting to deny him an opinion on the matter because of who he is trolling (or more accurately, fascism).

Fascism is a little to harsh claim don't you think?

GhaudePhaede010 said:

Will you do me a favor and provide proof that Wii dropped very fast and sold few software? Because I am looking at Wii console sales and while they dropped, after the first three years the console still averaged 10 million a year; aka around current XBOX One sales. Also, the attach rate is 8.99 so unless you have some evidence that contradicts these two facts, I am going to have to call BS on your post.

 

On topic, can we get Wii's first year top sellers for comparison, please? Otherwise, this topic lacks context. Do people forget Wii had an amazing first year with titles like:

Mario Galaxy.

Metroid Prime 3.

Legend of Zelda.

Battalion Wars 2.

Mario Strikers Charged.

Super Paper Mario.

Fire Emblem.

Resident Evil 4.

Godfather.

Guilty Gear Accent Core.

NBA Live.

Dragon Ball  Z Budakai 2 and 3.

Zack and Wiki.

Naruto Clash of Ninja Revolution.

Manhunt 2.

And a lot more I do not want to post for brevity. It would be best to give us some context for year one sales or sales similar to the time frame. Thanks.

Attach ratio compared to PS3 and X360 is a lot lower, and you also have to consider that any Wii had at least a Wii Sport or similar counted on its sold SW. Even though it sold more HW than PS3 and X360 it sold less SW. And that is also not forgeting the highly squeezed sales in favor of 1st party. So when you look at the sales in total you can see a hefty difference. And I'm quite sure this number have been revised recently because it was around 7-8 last time I checked.

On the HW drop, PS1 and PS2 sold like 1/3 of their amount even after a new gen started, while Wii sold nothing after new gen and even during it's own gen it declined abruptly compared to PS1-3 and X360 (that even peaked a lot later and hold the decline better).

Wii attach rate: 9.54

PS3 attach rate: 11.21

How on earth is that "a lot lower"?

And the fact that most of the sold games were first party is a good thing... Much more profit for Nintendo compared to Sony or Microsoft...

And PS3 also had a lot of bundled software, so don't even bother using that argument.



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

Alkibiádēs said:
DonFerrari said:

Fascism is a little to harsh claim don't you think?

Attach ratio compared to PS3 and X360 is a lot lower, and you also have to consider that any Wii had at least a Wii Sport or similar counted on its sold SW. Even though it sold more HW than PS3 and X360 it sold less SW. And that is also not forgeting the highly squeezed sales in favor of 1st party. So when you look at the sales in total you can see a hefty difference. And I'm quite sure this number have been revised recently because it was around 7-8 last time I checked.

On the HW drop, PS1 and PS2 sold like 1/3 of their amount even after a new gen started, while Wii sold nothing after new gen and even during it's own gen it declined abruptly compared to PS1-3 and X360 (that even peaked a lot later and hold the decline better).

Wii attach rate: 9.54

PS3 attach rate: 11.21

How on earth is that "a lot lower"?

And the fact that most of the sold games were first party is a good thing... Much more profit for Nintendo compared to Sony or Microsoft...

And PS3 also had a lot of bundled software, so don't even bother using that argument.

Have you ignored the part that I said the last time I checked tie ratio it was under 8?

And the bundle, Wii had other bundles, the point is that at least each one had Wii Sport, when bundling started it had a others included. We are only talking official bundles.

And yes, good for Nintendo... funny that you said that, because what is better for Nintendo doesn't mean what is the best for all. A platform where Nintendo get most sales and other doesn't have success help no one, even more when we go to that discussion that 3rd parties hate Nintendo and boycott it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Alkibiádēs said:

Wii attach rate: 9.54

PS3 attach rate: 11.21

How on earth is that "a lot lower"?

And the fact that most of the sold games were first party is a good thing... Much more profit for Nintendo compared to Sony or Microsoft...

And PS3 also had a lot of bundled software, so don't even bother using that argument.

Have you ignored the part that I said the last time I checked tie ratio it was under 8?

And the bundle, Wii had other bundles, the point is that at least each one had Wii Sport, when bundling started it had a others included. We are only talking official bundles.

And yes, good for Nintendo... funny that you said that, because what is better for Nintendo doesn't mean what is the best for all. A platform where Nintendo get most sales and other doesn't have success help no one, even more when we go to that discussion that 3rd parties hate Nintendo and boycott it.

It has been that number for many years now.

PS3 also had official bundles, stop using god damn excuses.

And if third party developers/publishers want to compete with Nintendo then they should start making better games. Even during the SNES days, when Nintendo had the best third party support, first party games dominated the charts.



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

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Alkibiádēs said:
DonFerrari said:

Have you ignored the part that I said the last time I checked tie ratio it was under 8?

And the bundle, Wii had other bundles, the point is that at least each one had Wii Sport, when bundling started it had a others included. We are only talking official bundles.

And yes, good for Nintendo... funny that you said that, because what is better for Nintendo doesn't mean what is the best for all. A platform where Nintendo get most sales and other doesn't have success help no one, even more when we go to that discussion that 3rd parties hate Nintendo and boycott it.

It has been that number for many years now.

PS3 also had official bundles, stop using god damn excuses.

And if third party developers/publishers want to compete with Nintendo then they should start making better games. Even during the SNES days, when Nintendo had the best third party support, first party games dominated the charts.

If 3rd party games are so bad why do they sell so much on other platforms and why does Nintendo fan complain they aren't released on their console?

Yes PS3 had official bundles. But nowhere would the amount oficially bundle compare to Wii Sport alone, much less when considering other bundles that would basically equate what PS3 and X360 had.

And if the number was 8 for several years my bad, because I remember the SW sales around 750M not near 1B.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Soundwave said:

We've seen demographic break downs of the Switch that say as much from Nintendo directly, but we see it even more and more with up to date software trends on the system ... 

Look at the top 10 software for October:

Nintendo Switch

  1. Super Mario Odyssey
  2. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
  3. Mario Kart 8
  4. Fire Emblem: Warriors
  5. Pokken Tournament DX
  6. Splatoon 2
  7. Mario & Rabbids: Kingdom Battle
  8. FIFA 18
  9. NBA 2K18
  10. Dragon Ball: Xenoverse 2
Interesting take there is not only are things like 1,2 Switch no where close to long tail sellers, they've completely fallen off the top 10. ARMS which was Nintendo's other "motion gaming" experiment for the Switch, which is marketed like a Wii game has also collapsed out of the top 10. The new Just Dance 2018 also failed to make the Switch top 10. 
But you do see things like FIFA, NBA2K, and Fire Emblem Warriors present. Nintendo should be very careful how they proceed IMO the system is doing well because there's a good amount of content for the traditional gaming audience and the device is marketed at that crowd. If they veer too far away from this and try to rely on casuals they are going to get themselves into trouble. 
4/10 top games being 3rd party (Mario/Rabbids is published by Ubi Soft) is not a bad mix for a Nintendo system either. 

The blue ocean strategy was made there home console line, which were not selling to there satisfactory, they felt they couldn't compete with sony, so they looked for a new audience, when the heck was there handheld line about blue ocean? there handhelds always old great, 3ds sold very good but not great for nintendo, so there stepping there game, and going the sony route with there handheld, where it can be more then handheld.   



Soundwave is right, a blue ocean strategy is not needed for success ...

A blue ocean stops being a blue ocean once every demographic and markets are catered to ...

There's no reason to believe why mobile devices couldn't cater to former customers of Nintendo's non-traditional franchises such as Brain Age, Nintendogs or even Wii Sports with alternate reality functionality (gyms are also competitors too) and it could even extend to other simulation games too like Animal Crossing ...



fatslob-:O said:

Soundwave is right, a blue ocean strategy is not needed for success ...

A blue ocean stops being a blue ocean once every demographic and markets are catered to ...

There's no reason to believe why mobile devices couldn't cater to former customers of Nintendo's non-traditional franchises such as Brain Age, Nintendogs or even Wii Sports with alternate reality functionality (gyms are also competitors too) and it could even extend to other simulation games too like Animal Crossing ...

The problem with Soundwave's entire theory is the notion that a console can sustain itself on hardcore fans alone. That's never the case. Most of the most successful consoles of all time like the PlayStation and DS, reached those insane 100m+ numbers because they appealed to audiences outside of what we consider "gamers". So this notion that Nintendo can banish all of their casual series, even games like Animal Crossing to just smartdevices is unhealthy for their business.

Plus, it's delusional to think the Switch only appeals to the "core gamer", when the console was designed to be friendly and accessible to those who don't even play home console games. Now, I will say that Nintendo's strategy is different from the Wii in that Nintendo is no long using a dedicated home console to introduce people to Video Games as a medium, that job has been taken by Smartphones. But you'd be a fool to think their overall creative and commercial phillosophy from the past 10 years has changed with the Switch. 



DonFerrari said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

I asked you to post proof. Like actual proof. Because again, I am looking at the attach rates of 360 (7.5) and PS3 (4.6) and they are lower than Wii. Even if you take Wii Sports out of the pack-in bundles, the attach rate is still 8 (Wii Sports was not bundled with every Wii and was not bundled at all in Japan). But again, if you can post proof, I will slide to the side.

Your second comment again needs proof. As I stated, Wii sold, an average of 10 million a year past its prime. Nothing to scoff at.

Where did you got 7.5 and 4.6??? VGC have then at 11.74 and 11.21.http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/Tie-Ratio/Global/

Are you in this community or not? The data is in here. But in any case. A good friend of ours keep all graphics for us. Will call him, Shadow 1980 and he will show you how much each leading console sold after peak and after next gen.

I do not use vgchartz numbers because I have never found them reliable. This site also has Wii's numbers higher than any other site I searched but we can use your numbers. I used this site's information from my google search: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Software_tie_ratio

 

However, I will not argue the numbers you provided because you have delivered what I asked. All I asked was for proof of your claims. Even if you are correct, it is a less than two game per console difference; hardly enough to justify your position. Also, you never showed me any information that proves the console sales dropped so badly that it proved the point you were trying to make. Even by the numbers you are using, your position is unsupported.



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