By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump's tax proposal: raise taxes on the poor, give to the rich

kowenicki said:
monocle_layton said:

 

'Buh Obama!'

 

Ok, now what about Trump? Why is it that any criticism avout Trump will always be directed to Obama or Hillary? Stop beating the bush and answer the actual problem.

I thought I was quite clear.  The problem is politicians... all politicians.  

But it is a fair point to ask why Obama got such a free ride, given his incompetence and failure to deliver.  He left a legacy of division leading to a Trump win.  Undeniable.

 

 

 

Well, that's complete bull, and it can be smelled from an ocean away.

Under Obama:

* Ended the recession brought on by the Bush administration.
* Funded the upgrade of the US auto-Industry, preventing it from complete collapse.
* Lowered the deficit year over year from 1.4 trillion USD at the end of the Bush administration down to 400 B USD, or a 72% reduction. And at the same time cut taxes for the working class.
* Healthcare reformation.
* Cut back on expensive US military operations, saving hundreds of billions of US taxpayer dollars.
* Instituted bank regulations to prevent the kind of economic collapsed caused by the Bush administration and their removal of prior regulations.
* Eliminated Osama Bin Laden, after the Bush administration had failed to do so for its entire 8 year administration.
* Raised fuel efficiency standards, which is pro-environment and pro-consumer.
* Reduced carbon emissions through the US. 
* Solved the nuclear crisis with Iran, and has catalyzed the rise of liberal causes in Iran.
* Created more jobs than any other President outside of Bill Clinton. After Bush had the lowest success in 100 years, rivalled only by his father Bush Sr. and Eisenhower (both Republicans).

This is all in spite of Republicans trying to obstruct everything the Democrats were trying to achieve. The major problem with Obama wasn't the Democrats, it was the pig-headed Republican obstructionism.

 

On the other hand, the current Republican administration has achieved nothing, Donald Trump runs his mouth on Twitter like an whiney crybaby, dropping the world opinion of the US substantially. He has had to fire many of his own "expertly handpicked staff" for incompetence. The Republican government has not passed anything, the only things that have happened are Trumps really terrible executive orders to hurt the people of the United States and the country as a whole. He has ordered the launch of several disastrous military offenses in support of Sunni extremist groups and Saudi Arabia, costing American lives.

 

Question: Why are Americans so clueless about their own country? Sometimes I think Western Europe knows more about what's happened in the US than the majority of actual Americans do. Is the news/propaganda umbrella really that terrible in the US? Why is it that Americans think Obama did nothing when the rest of the world can see he achieved quite a lot? Or is this just certain states who are under propaganda umbrellas? Or is it just ignorant republicans?



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Around the Network
Final-Fan said:
Zoombael said:
If you think hard and long about it, it actually makes sense.

Poor/muddle class people may tend to hoard their money, and saved money isn't spend money, less tax for the state. Rich people on the other hand spend more money the more money they have, which in turn is good for state and economy, and good for the little man. See. All is good and well.

I can't tell from your post—are you being sarcastic?  This is literally the opposite of reality as I understand it.  Poor people generally can't afford to save much of their income because of their expenses, and usually turn around and spend the money very quickly, either by buying things they've needed/wanted for a while but couldn't afford yet or paying off debt (increasing their purchasing power).  The people who can hoard their wealth are the ones whose basic expenses (food etc.) make up a smaller proportion of their total income.  The rich. 

Yes.



Hunting Season is done...

Zoombael said:
If you think hard and long about it, it actually makes sense.

Poor/muddle class people may tend to hoard their money, and saved money isn't spend money, less tax for the state. Rich people on the other hand spend more money the more money they have, which in turn is good for state and economy, and good for the little man. See. All is good and well.

Regardless of what else I read in this thread, this is dead wrong. Consumption to wealth/income ratio goes down as the latter group goes up because consumption doesn't increase as quickly as wealth and income.

Wait nevermind. Poe's law I guess.



StarOcean said:
Superman4 said:

 

The reason I use liberal to describe CNN and such is because up until Trump I considered myself more a Liberal-Democrat than anything else. I voted for Bill Clinton and Obama, Hell I voted for Al Gore. I agree with Some of what Bernie says and still think that if the DNC didn't screw him over that he would have won over Trump. What lost me about that party and really my state ( California ) is that I actually paid attention this time around. I read every last detail of everything on the Ballot, who was for and against each measure and came to the realization that the Democrats and Liberals, in this state at least are generally idiots. They put no thought into the ramifications of what they want to accomplish. Every last measure on the ballot that was funded and supported by Democrats took away voters rights and ability to have a say. When reading them I thought there was no way any Democrat would pass such idiotic measures but alas, every single one passed. Watching CNN plainly lie about what Trump said in his debates...which I watched in their entity, turned me to Fox to see what they had to say. I never really watched Fox before this election. Fox was actually pretty much on point with what Trump said and even Hillary. They bashed some of what he said because they didn't want him to win either and still bash him on occasion. CNN however did nothing of the sort. They would take snippets of the speech, out of context and incomplete and twist them into something they weren't and debate about it for an hour. Then Ana Navarro decided to start calling Trump a racist and saying he called all Mexicans murderers and Rapists. I watched that entire speech from start to finish, Live and thats not what he said. She has continued to say that same false narrative every time she is on the show. If you watch Fox its not that way, they bash Hillary yes, but they also bash Trump and a lot of other republicans on various issues. They will give those same people credit when they deserve it and unlike CNN wont take another backhanded jab right after any praise if any is given at all. CNN even twisted what he said about good people being on both sides during that protest where the women was run over. Not all of the people were violent or racist, it only takes a few to start trouble just ask Antifa. Fox does have some people that are far right in their beliefs but honestly for the most part the shows I watch are far better than the trash CNN is spewing these days. Hell, watching the election results on CNN when Hillary got off to an early lead was comical. They were all giddy and I told ya so up until Trump started to take some states he wasn't supposed to, then they switched the tone to "its still early" and "he will have to sweep these to have a chance". They didnt even want to call it in Trumps favor once it was clear he had won.

The thing is, do you want a bad Rep like Trump in office? You called yourself a Lib/Dem. If you are theres no way I could see you truly supporting him unless its out of protest. If you want a good Republican, John Kasich is a great one to follow. I don't see Bernie running in 2020. I think a decent Dem to look at for 2020/2024 is Joe Kennedy. But hey, that's my 2 cents. And really, Fox is still bad. Politics-wise. I'll always maintain that Fox and CNN make really good non-political peices though.

I support Trump on various issues. I am extremly dissapointed on his religious stance at this point since in the past religion has not been something he ever spoke about to my knowledge. I am for immigration reform and believe that if you are here illegaly you need to either become legal or leave. If you have been here 20 years and are still not legal, its time to go. I dont believe in the DACA program. I dont believe in giving drivers licenses to illegals or shielding them from deportation. To me it doesnt matter if they are from Sweden or Mexico, if you are not legally here you dont belong here. I am also not for mass refugee intake. We are bringing in millions of "refugees" giving them money and housing and making them citizens while we have homeless vets and homeless people in general that are citizens living on the streets. I also agree that we need to tax imports higher and make it more lucrative for businesses to stay in the US. Any smart company goes where its cheaper, unfortunatly that is outside the US right now and the companies have been leaving for years. Until we make it cheaper to do business in the US we will never see that tax revenue from those companies and will continue to lose jobs to other countries. 

I am also for universal healthcare. The problem is the goverment including the Dems will never do it. Bernie has the right idea but nobody will listen to him. Raise everyones taxes by 5-10%, eliminate all insurance companies, Medicare, Medicade etc. and create a health department in goverment that will only handle payments to hospitals and doctors. Have no stipulations on whats covered, everything is covered regardless of pre-existing etc. Everyone will pay far less per year than they do now for insurance and end up with 100% medical coverage.  I dont however believe in the ACA since that just puts the power in the insurance companies hands and makes rates go up while coverage goes down. 

If the dems can put someone up that isnt going to come after everyones guns, raise taxes for no reason, doesnt want to allow illegals to continue to live here without citizenship, wants to bring companies and jobs back to the US and stop spending money on BS social programs and things like the Paris Climate accord, not bring race into every conversation and agrees with eliminating any race based laws then I will vote for them. If not then Ill vote Trump even though I belive in seperation of church and state, a womens right to chose etc.  



S.T.A.G.E. said:
TurboElder said:

He already did.

"U.S. economy accelerated during first full Trump quarter"
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/28/news/economy/gdp-second-quarter-trump-economy/index.html

THose quarters were not because of trump but because of actual businesses holding the market together. Trump blindly attributed stock market rises to himself and stated that they would somehow affect the national debt. Seriously....I don't know what else to say.

Trump actually did help the stock market. Whether it turns out to be long term or not we will have to wait and see. His stance on policies is a big driver in stock price. If however he doesnt get what he wants or changes his stance then the market will drop. Companies have high hopes right now that they will make more money in a Trump economy.



Around the Network

It sounds like good Capitalism if it is true. Then there will be a trickle down effect and magically everyone will eventually become rich.



Superman4 said:
StarOcean said:

The thing is, do you want a bad Rep like Trump in office? You called yourself a Lib/Dem. If you are theres no way I could see you truly supporting him unless its out of protest. If you want a good Republican, John Kasich is a great one to follow. I don't see Bernie running in 2020. I think a decent Dem to look at for 2020/2024 is Joe Kennedy. But hey, that's my 2 cents. And really, Fox is still bad. Politics-wise. I'll always maintain that Fox and CNN make really good non-political peices though.

I support Trump on various issues. I am extremly dissapointed on his religious stance at this point since in the past religion has not been something he ever spoke about to my knowledge. I am for immigration reform and believe that if you are here illegaly you need to either become legal or leave. If you have been here 20 years and are still not legal, its time to go. I dont believe in the DACA program. I dont believe in giving drivers licenses to illegals or shielding them from deportation. To me it doesnt matter if they are from Sweden or Mexico, if you are not legally here you dont belong here. I am also not for mass refugee intake. We are bringing in millions of "refugees" giving them money and housing and making them citizens while we have homeless vets and homeless people in general that are citizens living on the streets. I also agree that we need to tax imports higher and make it more lucrative for businesses to stay in the US. Any smart company goes where its cheaper, unfortunatly that is outside the US right now and the companies have been leaving for years. Until we make it cheaper to do business in the US we will never see that tax revenue from those companies and will continue to lose jobs to other countries. 

I am also for universal healthcare. The problem is the goverment including the Dems will never do it. Bernie has the right idea but nobody will listen to him. Raise everyones taxes by 5-10%, eliminate all insurance companies, Medicare, Medicade etc. and create a health department in goverment that will only handle payments to hospitals and doctors. Have no stipulations on whats covered, everything is covered regardless of pre-existing etc. Everyone will pay far less per year than they do now for insurance and end up with 100% medical coverage.  I dont however believe in the ACA since that just puts the power in the insurance companies hands and makes rates go up while coverage goes down. 

If the dems can put someone up that isnt going to come after everyones guns, raise taxes for no reason, doesnt want to allow illegals to continue to live here without citizenship, wants to bring companies and jobs back to the US and stop spending money on BS social programs and things like the Paris Climate accord, not bring race into every conversation and agrees with eliminating any race based laws then I will vote for them. If not then Ill vote Trump even though I belive in seperation of church and state, a womens right to chose etc.  

Well again you'd be agreeing more with what Republicans want to do than Trump. Any Republican President would have stood for those things. And I agree with immigration being enforced. But I also believe the immigration process should be faster and smoother than it is. It in itself is broken. DACA, I disagree with you there. For example I know people who were part of DACA who only spoke english. They'll be absolutely fucked going back to China. Esp since they've been in America since they were children. It's really not their fault that they were brought to the country illegally. Refugees, that's a matter that doesn't matter much to me. 

Universal healthcare is not something thatll pass unless we get a leftist President and congress that'll pass it. Dems are right wing. Just less right than Republicans. So neither want it. It wont pass anytime soon. 

I feel like Democrats will either push a Trump-like person, which imo is a bad idea. Or they'll do an anti-Trump. Which is a normal level headed restrained person. Aka standard President. I also think another Republican may challenge Trump. 



Locknuts said:
Cut taxes for everyone. Shrink the government.

Cant do either when you're $17 trillion in debt and aiming to raise the military budget by $54 billion.



It's exactly fucking Macron's politics now. Reverse Robin Hood.



Machiavellian said:
kowenicki said:

I thought I was quite clear.  The problem is politicians... all politicians.  

But it is a fair point to ask why Obama got such a free ride, given his incompetence and failure to deliver.  He left a legacy of division leading to a Trump win.  Undeniable.

 

 

 

What lead to a Trump win was Hillary.  She was just to weak and had way to much baggage even against someone like Trump.  Also if you think Obama brought division in the US, you probably live on the side that never new it existed for decades.  Nothing you see today is something that just happens.  Just like any condition it has been brewing for years.  

Also, not sure why Obama making money has anything to do with inequality.  Inequality means peoople do not have the means to move from where they at because of systems in place to keep them from succeeding.  Examples would be white males making more money in the same position as a Female.

Also everything you listed is the going price for a President to speak.  How making money and charging the usual price for your services has anything with inequality, I am not seeing how this adds up.

Anyone making more money in the same position as someone else is just poor negotiation. If a man makes more thana women, the women settled for less money. Knowing what you are OK with making along with what industry standards are on Salary goes a long way in determining your salary. I have started a couple different places with a higher salary than both men and women in my same position, it all comes down to what you negotiated for and what you were willing to accept. People forget that its ok to counter a job offer with a higher salary and to turn it down if its not what you are ok with. Employers will try to get an employee for the lowest salary they can, male or female.