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Senator John McCain casts deciding vote against "Skinny Repeal"

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Healthcare you want for the US

Single Payer (All taxes) 83 57.24%
 
Multi-Payer (Government option) 24 16.55%
 
Heavy regulations (Capita... 6 4.14%
 
Moderate regulation 14 9.66%
 
No regulation 14 9.66%
 
Alternative Medicine 4 2.76%
 
Total:145
sethnintendo said:
barneystinson69 said:

Oh god...

Look, its 1:18 am, so I'm probably going to leave after saying this (in case I say something I regret later on). The bill itself wasn't suppose to be drafted into law, most republicans in the senate didn't like the bill, and only voted for it because they were promised it wouldn't be put into law. The goal of passing this was to ultimately bring this back into the house, and start working on getting amendments into place. This bill itself was a fucking joke, so to say this represented what the GOP wanted is ahrdly accurate.

So what is the point on voting on a bill that won't become law.  They didn't put it up for debate or amendments.  They tried to push this turd through.  It's their own damn fault.  It's like going into to solving a problem with no solution.

And that is why I agree on what John Mccain did! Constantly having to play these political gymnastics is crazy, and it would be better to have cooperation between both parties. I was just rebuffing your statement when you the GOP didn't want lower premiums, because that isn't true. 



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vivster said:
barneystinson69 said:

The GOP wants Obamacare to cost less to taxpayers, and wants lower premiums. Democrats can agree with this, so I don't see what the problem is. I'm hoping things can change, and I thank Mccain for sticking to his promise.

Where did they say this? Obamacare is already barely working due to countless exceptions for people to opt out of it. How the fuck would you make Healthcare better by making tax payers pay even less?

That's like saying "We will fix the infrastructure of the country by cutting income tax to 0%". Because who needs money to pay for services.

Look, costs in general are out of control. Health care in the US is far more expensive to taxpayers and individuals than it should be. Fact is, a single-payer system that is done right ends up being cheaper than having to rely on insurance. I'm sure democrats wouldn't mind if taxpayers would pay less either while keeping Obamacare. How that is done, well maybe trying to fight for lower prices from pharmaceuticals companies would help, but I'm not a politican.



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barneystinson69 said:
vivster said:

Where did they say this? Obamacare is already barely working due to countless exceptions for people to opt out of it. How the fuck would you make Healthcare better by making tax payers pay even less?

That's like saying "We will fix the infrastructure of the country by cutting income tax to 0%". Because who needs money to pay for services.

Look, costs in general are out of control. Health care in the US is far more expensive to taxpayers and individuals than it should be. Fact is, a single-payer system that is done right ends up being cheaper than having to rely on insurance. I'm sure democrats wouldn't mind if taxpayers would pay less either. But back on topic, I honestly don't know how it would be achieved, but you can't tell me this is something democrats wouldn't want.

I'm convinced that at least some democrates understand how an insurance works and why it is better than cutting costs for individuals. An insurance works only if people who do not currently need it pay for it. Making it so that healthy people don't pay defeats the whole purpose. General healthcare costs are definitely out of control but that is a separate issue that needs strong backing to fight against big pharma lobbyists.

See it this way.

Currently no one cares that healthcare is too expensive because it only affects individuals. The majority are after all healthy and don't have to pay the costs. So nothing will ever be done about it.

Easy solution:

Have government pay for the whole thing and make all individuals and companies without exception pay for the cost. Then see how fast politicians are suddenly able to come to the table and do something about out of control costs that they and all of their constituents suddenly have to bear.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Puppyroach said:
Thank goodness that the house and senate has had the most incompetent republicans of our time on place so that they can fail even when they have the majority 🙂.

Well I'm annoyed they haven't come up with something they all agree with, I'm glad they're avoiding passing something broken like ACA.

Having more people with health insurance than ever in US history is not the sign of a broken law.



Puppyroach said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Well I'm annoyed they haven't come up with something they all agree with, I'm glad they're avoiding passing something broken like ACA.

Having more people with health insurance than ever in US history is not the sign of a broken law.

At the cost of higher premiums and deductables for the people actually paying in. While working people who can't afford insurance premiums were hit with ridiculous penalties. Even the dems fully admit ACA is flawed, its not just republicans pointing it out.

We could bring obesity to an all time low if we simply made obesity a crime. That's essentially how ACA works, get insurance or you will be punished. If you don't work or make little money, you'll get free healthcare via the people actually paying in.

You could even get free insurance by simply requesting to work less hours, you would fall into a bracket that doesn't make enough money and qualifies for free healthcare. So some people benefit by simply staying home more.

I want everybody to have access to quality healthcare, but ACA was objectively a shit way to do it. There are ways to make healthcare more affordable in this country, that's not what ACA accomplished.



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vivster said: 

Easy solution:

Have government pay for the whole thing and make all individuals and companies without exception pay for the cost. Then see how fast politicians are suddenly able to come to the table and do something about out of control costs that they and all of their constituents suddenly have to bear.

But think about how many Canadians will suffer by not having a place to go while their country makes them wait!

Another easy solution is let the free market bring the cost of healthcare down. Its amazing what could happen if the government doesn't have a stranglehold.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Puppyroach said:

Having more people with health insurance than ever in US history is not the sign of a broken law.

At the cost of higher premiums and deductables for the people actually paying in. While working people who can't afford insurance premiums were hit with ridiculous penalties. Even the dems fully admit ACA is flawed, its not just republicans pointing it out.

We could bring obesity to an all time low if we simply made obesity a crime. That's essentially how ACA works, get insurance or you will be punished. If you don't work or make little money, you'll get free healthcare via the people actually paying in.

You could even get free insurance by simply requesting to work less hours, you would fall into a bracket that doesn't make enough money and qualifies for free healthcare. So some people benefit by simply staying home more.

I want everybody to have access to quality healthcare, but ACA was objectively a shit way to do it. There are way to make healthcare more affordable in this country, that's not what ACA accomplished.

Yes, it is flawed since the way to go would be universal healthcare. That the premiums were raised for some people is a result of having a private insurance market that has to cater to shareholders and profit. Also, premiums haven't risen as fast as they would have pre-ACA as far as I've heard? So no, it's deeply flawed but definitively not broken.



Mr Puggsly said:
vivster said: 

Easy solution:

Have government pay for the whole thing and make all individuals and companies without exception pay for the cost. Then see how fast politicians are suddenly able to come to the table and do something about out of control costs that they and all of their constituents suddenly have to bear.

But think about how many Canadians will suffer by not having a place to go while their country makes them wait!

Another easy solution is let the free market bring the cost of healthcare down. Its amazing what could happen if the government doesn't have a stranglehold.

Wait what? Really? No wait, I must've read that wrong. Nope, you really said that. Still, cannot believe it though.

The free market is the fucking cause of the price explosion in things related to healthcare. Because the free market knows that people can't live without essentials like healthcare and as such can demand the highest prices. The fuck is the government doing to increase the prices?

Seriously, you cannot possibly believe this.



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I don't care what anyone else says, my respect for John McCain just went up exponentially.



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Skinny repeal? Were they planning on banning skinny people or something?



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