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Project Scorpio unlocked to now have 9GB of GDDR5 ram for developers

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Project Scorpio unlocked to now have 9GB of GDDR5 ram for developers

Conina said:
FIT_Gamer said:
Are there any games that would honestly need 9GB of RAM?

Perhaps Star Citizen gets ported to Scorpio ;)

I would love that!  Provided Star Citizen does come out within a year, and it is a good as it seems like it should be. 



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

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Pemalite said:
NATO said:

Do you realize you can buy GDDR5 modules in bulk for under $2 per 500mb module?, so you could bump a systems memory by 4gb for a BOM increase of at most, $16?

Do you think a BOM increase of $16 would increase the consoles price from the rumored $400 mark, to $1000?

*sigh*

That BOM is just for the chips themselves. There are additional costs.

You need a better memory controller to drive more chips, better power delivery, more traces on the motherboard... And if you need higher grade modules that clock higher or hit a lower voltage.. They come at a premium.

But you are right, it wouldn't add hundreds to the overall costs.

indeed but there is a fairly good chance the existing memory controller would handle it just fine since it's based of an APU that has the support for it, but even if it didn't, designing an already customized system around additional ram wouldn't really cause a significant increase to unit cost, just more cost for the R&D of the hardware to begin with, and a little extra on more circuitry and power distribution for the additional modules.

Point is, even if you gave it a really broad and generous estimation of final additional cost per unit, you'd only really be looking at $30-$35, and that would be *very* generous too.

There's a very good reason which i'm sure you'll understand and agree with, as to why they won't do this.

Simply because of balance, they wont put more ram into a system that would very much benefit from it (due to 4k targets), because they know the rest of the system wouldn't really be able to fully utilize it, and including it would also mean that somewhere down the line their next console would need to be significantly better to entice buyers.

No console manufacturer is ever going to release a system that's as cutting edge as they can possibly make it, because there would be no profit in it for them, which is why i'm a PC gamer, you choose what to spend, you choose how good or bad you want things to be.

Just CS go? a $50 second hand rig would suffice, want multi-4k gaming at smooth framerates, it'll cost you but you can do it, no waiting around, no "generation" and for the most part, plug and play upgrades.

Scorpio is, in my opinion, Microsofts bridge console between their Xbox brand and their windows brand, as it moves ever closer to pc, and evidence to me that they're slowly tapering off out of the console market while trying to take as many console gamers with them as they can - ultimately, it's a Microsoft branded, MS-Store locked steambox.



NATO said:

indeed but there is a fairly good chance the existing memory controller would handle it just fine since it's based of an APU that has the support for it, but even if it didn't, designing an already customized system around additional ram wouldn't really cause a significant increase to unit cost, just more cost for the R&D of the hardware to begin with, and a little extra on more circuitry and power distribution for the additional modules.

GPU's and the Console APU's are a little different than what you would see on a Desktop PC that uses ranks on a DIMM/SIMM.

Each memory chip usually has it's own memory bus that connects directly to the memory controller or chipset. So if you double the amount of memory chips, you generally need to double the memory controllers bus width. Console APU's typically aren't built with such forward/backward thinking in the memory controller as it would be transistors going to waste (and thus money) for no benefit.


NATO said:

Point is, even if you gave it a really broad and generous estimation of final additional cost per unit, you'd only really be looking at $30-$35, and that would be *very* generous too.

Agreed.


NATO said:

Simply because of balance, they wont put more ram into a system that would very much benefit from it (due to 4k targets), because they know the rest of the system wouldn't really be able to fully utilize it, and including it would also mean that somewhere down the line their next console would need to be significantly better to entice buyers.

I think cost is a more important factor than balance. If balance was a concern... Scorpio wouldn't be using Jaguar.

Ram is also one of those things that someone is always screaming out wanting more... If you do not include enough... It can have catastrophic consequences. Put to much in... And you are wasting money. Ram itself also possess no hardware for processing so it doesn't actually hardware accellerate or process anything to make them go faster.

Balance is certainly important though, consoles of old were certainly far more balanced machines than today... Such as the Gamecube and the original Xbox.

In Scorpio's case, the vast majority of games on release will be using at most... 5GB of that 9GB pool.  That is 4GB sitting around twiddling it's thumbs and doing nothing. Normally.
Microsoft instead will use whatever memory is free for caching, which is something consoles never typically did before this generation and I am keen to see how that translates into the UI, Apps, Game loading etc'.

NATO said:

No console manufacturer is ever going to release a system that's as cutting edge as they can possibly make it, because there would be no profit in it for them, which is why i'm a PC gamer, you choose what to spend, you choose how good or bad you want things to be.

Exactly. It all comes down to profit. Costs. And balancing those aspects.

NATO said:

Scorpio is, in my opinion, Microsofts bridge console between their Xbox brand and their windows brand, as it moves ever closer to pc, and evidence to me that they're slowly tapering off out of the console market while trying to take as many console gamers with them as they can - ultimately, it's a Microsoft branded, MS-Store locked steambox.

They have been saying that before the Original Xbox dropped onto the market, that console gaming and PC gaming will get closer together and lines will be blurred. :P

Here we are 15+ years later. Haha.

I still see a reason to own both a console and a PC for gaming even with most of their game library being identical.

I am keen to pick up a Scorpio though... It's hardware is what I would have preferred the generation to release with. But I digress. :P



NATO said:
Pemalite said:

That BOM is just for the chips themselves. There are additional costs.

You need a better memory controller to drive more chips, better power delivery, more traces on the motherboard... And if you need higher grade modules that clock higher or hit a lower voltage.. They come at a premium.

But you are right, it wouldn't add hundreds to the overall costs.

indeed but there is a fairly good chance the existing memory controller would handle it just fine since it's based of an APU that has the support for it, but even if it didn't, designing an already customized system around additional ram wouldn't really cause a significant increase to unit cost, just more cost for the R&D of the hardware to begin with, and a little extra on more circuitry and power distribution for the additional modules.

Point is, even if you gave it a really broad and generous estimation of final additional cost per unit, you'd only really be looking at $30-$35, and that would be *very* generous too.

There's a very good reason which i'm sure you'll understand and agree with, as to why they won't do this.

Simply because of balance, they wont put more ram into a system that would very much benefit from it (due to 4k targets), because they know the rest of the system wouldn't really be able to fully utilize it, and including it would also mean that somewhere down the line their next console would need to be significantly better to entice buyers.

No console manufacturer is ever going to release a system that's as cutting edge as they can possibly make it, because there would be no profit in it for them, which is why i'm a PC gamer, you choose what to spend, you choose how good or bad you want things to be.

Just CS go? a $50 second hand rig would suffice, want multi-4k gaming at smooth framerates, it'll cost you but you can do it, no waiting around, no "generation" and for the most part, plug and play upgrades.

Scorpio is, in my opinion, Microsofts bridge console between their Xbox brand and their windows brand, as it moves ever closer to pc, and evidence to me that they're slowly tapering off out of the console market while trying to take as many console gamers with them as they can - ultimately, it's a Microsoft branded, MS-Store locked steambox.

Not to mention that while quite surely Scorpio RAM could be faster than original XBOne one, it's even more sure that it will be current mainstream RAM, not exotic high-end one, so it will require current standard circuitry and controllers just like plain XBOne used standard stuff of its period (also custom chips, yes, but based on back then standard ones).
After all every market segment evolved in four years, so it's possible to get a boost for free simply staying in the same segment and gathering what these years brought to it.



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