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CGI-Quality said:
quickrick said:

Pretty much. I mean the argument was believing  Nintendo pr numbers he took personal and took to another level on how me and fatslob dont have enough intellect to use math then went on how no one want me her.  like really I effect people that much I only enter sales thread like once a month people are that upset about my predictions.

 

I'm not surprised though on resetera Nintendo fans hate patcher with a passion because of his predictions you would think that he was talking about there family or something 

Admittedly, I get a little frustrated with people who are factually wrong yet continue to pursue the argument, but I also get that you are allowed to be wrong. So long as people keep insults at bay, there won't be any trouble. 

That said, also understand the other side. That sometimes, it can come off as needlessly antagonistic when you jump into a positive Nintendo thread and appear to be on an anti-Switch journey. Not saying that is your goal, but the wording can steer it in that direction (look at how often people quote your 'cliff' talk).  I get the complaints of certain people in that regard. People just need to step back and evaluate their own pieces in it. As chakkra noted, everyone is human here and we're bound to make mistakes. Consider some of the more reasonable critiquing (and even the more harsh ones - they can help too, believe it or not). 

I  can see you're point, in general though i'm just very forgiving person, and don't hold any grudges. like i'm might dislike someone for a hour then its over and even for much bigger reasons in life then talking about console sales, so it's gonna be harder for me grasp. To be be quite frank i'm not even that negative on switch sales, being flat is still amazing sales.

Last edited by quickrick - on 04 December 2018

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chakkra said:
zorg1000 said:

Admitting you're wrong and apologizing doesn't mean much when you just turn around and continue to do the same thing.

Ok first, I don't even understand why he had to apologize.  He made a wrong prediction. And? We all have and we'll all keep doing it.  You know why? because we're humans.  And sure, his predictions can be a little bit more controversial than the average, but as long as he doesn't insult anyone then what's the harm?

And if you all don't like his predictions, why don't you just ignore him? I mean, time will pass and his predictions will be proven wrong (or right) eventually, don't you think?

As per Rol? well, a long time ago I decided not to engage in any kind of discussion with him because I have noticed that almost every argument with him ends the same way:  With him insinuating that the other has an anti-Nintendo bias and that his/her opinions should not be taken seriously because of it.

I have to agree  Rick didn't have to apologise and now we see why. He apologised yet still gets bullied about it endlessly. So he apologised for nothing. 

 

Rick the only advice I can give you. Be proud of yourself, don't apologise to nobody for wrong predictions and don't allow yourself to be backed into a corner. You're a breath of fresh air around here and it would be much more boring without you. Head up chap! 



Kerotan said:
chakkra said:

Ok first, I don't even understand why he had to apologize.  He made a wrong prediction. And? We all have and we'll all keep doing it.  You know why? because we're humans.  And sure, his predictions can be a little bit more controversial than the average, but as long as he doesn't insult anyone then what's the harm?

And if you all don't like his predictions, why don't you just ignore him? I mean, time will pass and his predictions will be proven wrong (or right) eventually, don't you think?

As per Rol? well, a long time ago I decided not to engage in any kind of discussion with him because I have noticed that almost every argument with him ends the same way:  With him insinuating that the other has an anti-Nintendo bias and that his/her opinions should not be taken seriously because of it.

I have to agree  Rick didn't have to apologise and now we see why. He apologised yet still gets bullied about it endlessly. So he apologised for nothing. 

 

Rick the only advice I can give you. Be proud of yourself, don't apologise to nobody for wrong predictions and don't allow yourself to be backed into a corner. You're a breath of fresh air around here and it would be much more boring without you. Head up chap! 

Thanks for the kind of words.



Train wreck said:

Joel Quenneville was fired as the Chicago Blackhawks head coach after winning them three Stanley Cups, Mike McCarthy was let go even though he has a Superbowl ring under his belt. At a certain point, the mods here are going to have to come to a head when dealing with Rol and his MULTIPLE bans. Just because others think he is a good poster and brings a lot to this forum doesn't mean he shouldn't face the ultimate punishment for his bans.

Question for the mods if rols post was backseat modding, isnt this aswell?

If it was backseat modding at all but thats a different matter 



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

chakkra said:
zorg1000 said:

Admitting you're wrong and apologizing doesn't mean much when you just turn around and continue to do the same thing.

Ok first, I don't even understand why he had to apologize.  He made a wrong prediction. And? We all have and we'll all keep doing it.  You know why? because we're humans.  And sure, his predictions can be a little bit more controversial than the average, but as long as he doesn't insult anyone then what's the harm?

And if you all don't like his predictions, why don't you just ignore him? I mean, time will pass and his predictions will be proven wrong (or right) eventually, don't you think?

 

It's not and never has been about people not liking his predictions, it's about him being needlessly negative about all things involving Switch to the point that I dont see how anyone doesnt see it as trolling/flaming.

How many times has he gone into a thread about some positive sales milestone and instantly tried to downplay it? A lot. He has admitted to not being a fan of Switch/Nintendo yet like 90% of his posts are about it, that makes him the new Lawlight.

Considering that he has been banned like a dozen times in his first year for trolling/flaming while talking about Switch shows that's it's not "bad predictions" that people are getting fed up with, it's his overall negative attitude and toxic personality.

 

Edit: also the thing he apologised for wasnt because of a prediction, it was about using hyperbole. His original fall off a cliff comment had alot of people questioning it and he later said what he actually meant was it would be flat YoY and apologised for the confusion.

Did this lead to him toning back on the hyperbole? Nope. He has since made the same mistake multiple times, made an exaggerated claim then when it was questioned he backtracked and stated what he really meant.

An example, he stated most people thought Switch would dominate PS4 this year. That statement was put into question and someone showed that in a prediction thread it was a pretty even split between the two and most thought it would be close regardless of winner.

After being shown his statement was wrong, he switched it to he was talking about a different forum, which again someone went into the prediction thread on that forum and only could find a handful of predictions that could be considered domination by Switch.

That's what I meant by apologizing doesnt mean much when you turn around and do the same thing over again.

Last edited by zorg1000 - on 04 December 2018

When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
chakkra said:

Ok first, I don't even understand why he had to apologize.  He made a wrong prediction. And? We all have and we'll all keep doing it.  You know why? because we're humans.  And sure, his predictions can be a little bit more controversial than the average, but as long as he doesn't insult anyone then what's the harm?

And if you all don't like his predictions, why don't you just ignore him? I mean, time will pass and his predictions will be proven wrong (or right) eventually, don't you think?

 

It's not and never has been about people not liking his predictions, it's about him being needlessly negative about all things involving Switch to the point that I dont see how anyone doesnt see it as trolling/flaming.

How many times has he gone into a thread about some positive sales milestone and instantly tried to downplay it? A lot. He has admitted to not being a fan of Switch/Nintendo yet like 90% of his posts are about it, that makes him the new Lawlight.

Considering that he has been banned like a dozen times in his first year for trolling/flaming while talking about Switch shows that's it's not "bad predictions" that people are getting fed up with, it's his overall negative attitude and toxic personality.

 

Edit: also the thing he apologised for wasnt because of a prediction, it was about using hyperbole. His original fall off a cliff comment had alot of people questioning it and he later said what he actually meant was it would be flat YoY and apologised for the confusion.

Did this lead to him toning back on the hyperbole? Nope. He has since made the same mistake multiple times, made an exaggerated claim then when it was questioned he backtracked and stated what he really meant.

An example, he stated most people thought Switch would dominate PS4 this year. That statement was put into question and someone showed that in a prediction thread it was a pretty even split between the two and most thought it would be close regardless of winner.

After being shown his statement was wrong, he switched it to he was talking about a different forum, which again someone went into the prediction thread on that forum and only could find a handful of predictions that could be considered domination by Switch.

That's what I meant by apologizing doesnt mean much when you turn around and do the same thing over again.

I'll admit i over did it with being negative, but i seen my errors, and calmed down, and didn't get banned for like 4 months straight. then the last 2 bans was for trying to have fun with a  prediction, and then flaiming roll. imo you seem real bitter and holding a grudge like i killed your dog or something, and like people said i don't even have to apologize it was just a bad prediction on my end, i was trying to be  polite. 

Last edited by quickrick - on 04 December 2018

quickrick said:
zorg1000 said:

It's not and never has been about people not liking his predictions, it's about him being needlessly negative about all things involving Switch to the point that I dont see how anyone doesnt see it as trolling/flaming.

How many times has he gone into a thread about some positive sales milestone and instantly tried to downplay it? A lot. He has admitted to not being a fan of Switch/Nintendo yet like 90% of his posts are about it, that makes him the new Lawlight.

Considering that he has been banned like a dozen times in his first year for trolling/flaming while talking about Switch shows that's it's not "bad predictions" that people are getting fed up with, it's his overall negative attitude and toxic personality.

 

Edit: also the thing he apologised for wasnt because of a prediction, it was about using hyperbole. His original fall off a cliff comment had alot of people questioning it and he later said what he actually meant was it would be flat YoY and apologised for the confusion.

Did this lead to him toning back on the hyperbole? Nope. He has since made the same mistake multiple times, made an exaggerated claim then when it was questioned he backtracked and stated what he really meant.

An example, he stated most people thought Switch would dominate PS4 this year. That statement was put into question and someone showed that in a prediction thread it was a pretty even split between the two and most thought it would be close regardless of winner.

After being shown his statement was wrong, he switched it to he was talking about a different forum, which again someone went into the prediction thread on that forum and only could find a handful of predictions that could be considered domination by Switch.

That's what I meant by apologizing doesnt mean much when you turn around and do the same thing over again.

I'll admit i over did it with negative, and didn't get banned for like 4 months straight. then the last 2 bans with for trying to have fun with  prediction, and then flaiming roll. imo you seem real bitter and holding a grudge like i killed your dog or something, and like people said i don't even have to apologize it was just a bad prediction on my end, i was trying to be  polite. 

I'm not bitter nor do I hold a grudge, I was explaining to chakra that it's not "bad predictions" that have caused so many to dislike you and it's not the reason you constantly get in trouble here.

And you're right, you didn't have to apologise but like I said you didnt apologise for a prediction, you apologised for using hyperbole which led to confusion. You still constantly make hyperbolic statements then after being questioned finally state what you "really meant". An apology isn't sincere if you continue to do the thing you apologised for in the first place.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

padib said:

On Rol's side:

Use self-control, and use these posts as a channel towards clearer thinking.

On QuickRick's side:

Limite the influence of bias and make an effort to look at things as objectively as possible. Be careful that if you don't, your posts may be seen as hateful.

You know...  I feel like both of your solutions can be applied to both posters.

Heck, I feel like they can be applied to all of us here.



padib said:
Train wreck said:

Joel Quenneville was fired as the Chicago Blackhawks head coach after winning them three Stanley Cups, Mike McCarthy was let go even though he has a Superbowl ring under his belt. At a certain point, the mods here are going to have to come to a head when dealing with Rol and his MULTIPLE bans. Just because others think he is a good poster and brings a lot to this forum doesn't mean he shouldn't face the ultimate punishment for his bans.

Train wreck you really triggered me with this post but I will channel the provocation into a decent counter-post.

Firstly, Rol is one of the most intelligent posters on this forum. To some users he is synonymous to vgchartz. I am not saying to defend his rude behavior at times, or to say he should be reckless, but I think that desiring him to be gone from the forums is wrong.

I think he is simply fed up with folks who bring this place to low levels of thought and argumentation. Remember, why do we visit vgchartz? Why do we go on forums? By definition a forum is a place to speak and be heard, to listen and be spoken to. The ultimate goal is therefore communication and understanding.

In trying to stay positive, let's put away schoolyard thinking, let's stop offering arguments that are built on pre-defined conclusions due to preference, bias and wanting something to fail because it's different. This is something we see a lot on game forums and it's wrong. 

Perhaps there is some way to rise above that kind of clash, perhaps those who are willing to argue intelligently can look at posts that are less stimulating as pure challenges, as a means to bring to light truths in a much more powerful way, like a kind of proof by contradiction.

I think that's the heart of the issue: frustration with mentalities that are shallow and make people miserable about their personal preferences.

Edit: Of course, we need to stress the solution, and this is my personal opinion.

On Rol's side:

Use self-control, and use these posts as a channel towards clearer thinking.

On QuickRick's side:

Limite the influence of bias and make an effort to look at things as objectively as possible. Be careful that if you don't, your posts may be seen as hateful.

I honestly feel rol is the kind of person that does constantly  bring this place to a low level. anytime someone disagrees with him, its a war, and he throws a temper tantrum, thinks the person arguing with him is a idiot or inferior to his intellect, throws personal insults i mean he was at war with mods at one point because they didn't agree with his point of view, even threatened a mod IRRC.  



If you want to compare Rol's moderation history with somebodies, you simply have to look at the reasons they're usually in trouble.

The vast majority of Rol's "trouble" comes from him attacking people who are usually, for the most part, being problematic themselves. He has the odd moderation for trolling, though those moderations usually don't come down to malicious intent and they're more jokes that can be misinterpreted. He's rarely if ever been disruptive to discussion or other communities.

The majority of trouble surrounding quickrick (and previously Kerotan) came from problems caused with other communities, and the fact that they're unwilling to admit when they were wrong. Pushing things to a point where they earn a bad name for themselves and any real negativity posted by them is seen as an attack.

Being that obtuse and dense, to the point where other people get into trouble for repeatedly responding and calling out bullshit, means that those posters are the cause of the problem. A backwards ruleset and backwards moderation has protected these kinds of users for years while punishing those who call out the trolls. This has been a problem through every mod team and every rule set.

The answer isn't to just swipe it under the carpet and hope the stink disappears with time. The answer is to cut out the problem at the source, just like I decided to do with Kerotan. Ethomaz can be another example. Lawlight another.

Stop hiding behind a broken, dated ruleset.

Give me the reign if you're too afraid to do what needs to be done.

Last edited by Carl - on 05 December 2018