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Forums - PC Discussion - AMD New Polaris GPU Revisions w/50% Better Perf/Watt (NX delay reason?)

JEMC said:
se7en7thre3 said:

fwiw http://www.anandtech.com/show/10710/amd-announces-embedded-radeon-e9260-e9550 

So AMD has the products cited in the wccftech article, so what?

Looking at the anandtech article you linked, you can see that those new products replace another two, produced in 28nm and with an older and less efficient architecture that don't consume that much more power and, in fact, use a lot less power than their desktop counterparts.

For example, taken from that article, the E8950 that is replaced by the newer E9550 is based on the Tonga architecture, features 2048 shaders and is rated at 95W. The desktop version would be the R9 380X that is also based on Tonga and has 2048 shaders, and guess what, it's rated at 190W. And that's despite being a 4GB card compared to the 8GB of the embbeded product!

Summary: using embbeded products to extrapolate the performance or power consumption of the desktop versions doesn't work.

I am definitely no expert on this subject so i appreciate your input; also pemalite and other tech heads here that can chime in and declare whether its possible, or pure bs click bait:

"It’s not clear yet whether AMD will also introduce the new revision to the desktop market. However, in the mobile market where power efficiency rules supreme this could prove to be a pivotal change for the company’s competitiveness in notebooks. Some industry sources are speculating that AMD could introduce the new Polaris 10 and Polaris 11 revisions as part of the company’s graphics refresh next year. To be part of the new product stack alongside the brand new powerful enthusiast-class Vega 10 and Vega 11 GPUs in what we assume we’ll be called the RX 500 series. There’s evidence to believe that this is plausible. The Radeon Technologies Group had revealed earlier this year that the new naming scheme introduced with the RX 400 series had been designed with room for updated revisions in mind, e.g. RX 485, RX 475 and RX 465 graphics cards. 

However, as the desktop isn’t a power critical platform the company is more likely to choose to leverage the higher power efficiency to boost performance by raising clock speeds and maintaining similar TDP levels of current RX 400 series graphics cards. AMD’s new flagship graphics chip code named “Vega 10” is scheduled to debut at the end of the year. Another high-end “Vega 11” GPU is scheduled to launch next year to slot it in between Vega 10 and Polaris 10."



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Slimebeast said:

Yes, I am indeed waiting to see what Zen brings to the table for my future comp. I'm eagerly waiting for Zen and Vega. Nvidia and Intel aren't an option because I am 100% AMD and I trust them. I don't have to get the "performance crown" CPU for gaming. I am certain a $250 Zen will be competitive enuff in modern games and future games versus the popular $300 Intel CPUs next year, and within rufly ~10% in modern games which are so GPU-bound anyway in practical circumstances, especially in 4K which I'm targeting for next year (assuming 4K HDR moniters are released with at least 75Hz).

I was 100% AMD/ATI for years.
But anyone who buys an AMD CPU at the moment is silly. It's a waste of money when the competition has vastly superior alternatives.

I'm still AMD with GPU's. Unless Vega doesn't come to the party, then it might be time to go team Green for the first time since the Geforce 7.

Slimebeast said:

But hey, the 3DS was release like 5 years ago. Hardly does it damage Eurogamer's credibility if they were wrong on that perdiction back then.

Also, the big factor against the AMD theory is that to my knowledge AMD doesn't have any GPU that can fit into a portable sized hybrid console, right?

They do have their Cat Core based APU's which can scale down to those powerlevels. But at that point you are still better off with nVidia's Tegra.

se7en7thre3 said:

I am definitely no expert on this subject so i appreciate your input; also pemalite and other tech heads here that can chime in and declare whether its possible, or pure bs click bait:

"It’s not clear yet whether AMD will also introduce the new revision to the desktop market. However, in the mobile market where power efficiency rules supreme this could prove to be a pivotal change for the company’s competitiveness in notebooks. Some industry sources are speculating that AMD could introduce the new Polaris 10 and Polaris 11 revisions as part of the company’s graphics refresh next year. To be part of the new product stack alongside the brand new powerful enthusiast-class Vega 10 and Vega 11 GPUs in what we assume we’ll be called the RX 500 series. There’s evidence to believe that this is plausible. The Radeon Technologies Group had revealed earlier this year that the new naming scheme introduced with the RX 400 series had been designed with room for updated revisions in mind, e.g. RX 485, RX 475 and RX 465 graphics cards. 

However, as the desktop isn’t a power critical platform the company is more likely to choose to leverage the higher power efficiency to boost performance by raising clock speeds and maintaining similar TDP levels of current RX 400 series graphics cards. AMD’s new flagship graphics chip code named “Vega 10” is scheduled to debut at the end of the year. Another high-end “Vega 11” GPU is scheduled to launch next year to slot it in between Vega 10 and Polaris 10."

Vega 10 and 11 has been known about for over a year now. It's nothing new.

If Vega launches this year, then it will be a 400 series part. If it releases near the middle of next year it will be a 500 series part.

A Polaris revision is entirely possible. But at this point AMD is probably going to be more interested in fleshing out the entire 400 series rather than reworking current chips, they might take new higher clocking polaris chips and add new cards to their lineup though.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Slimebeast said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

Eurogamer is the source of both the Tegra rumor and the tablet. And Eurogamer said that 3DS would use Nvidia.  So both can reasonably be dismissed together. 

When you then switch the concept in reverse, that it is a home console with a portable component, AMD makes much more sense. I don't think for a second they are trying to stuff competitive chips in a tablet.

But hey, the 3DS was release like 5 years ago. Hardly does it damage Eurogamer's credibility if they were wrong on that perdiction back then.

Also, the big factor against the AMD theory is that to my knowledge AMD doesn't have any GPU that can fit into a portable sized hybrid console, right?

Arufly ~0.5TFLOP GPU performancer by the NX would be certainly enuff to make beautiful looking Nintendo games. It wouldn't be enuff to make multiplatforms look good, but Nintendo isn't reliable on multiplatforms for its success anyway.

If the NX would be on par with Xbox One at 1.3 TFLOPS it would be a huge bonus, even if it was available just in "home console mode", but I don't expect it. It would mean incredible graphics and a major success. But the visual looks of the new open world Zelda suggests the NX will be rufly 0.5 TFLOPs (I know it runs on a Wii U, but judging from the engine design and stuff you can extrapolate and determine how the NX version will look. I think you can clearly see that the game is not being designed with Xbox One level of performance in mind).

The new Zelda to me doesn't look 100% pleasing because it's a bit blurry, but for other Nintendo games like Donkey Kong, Mario and Picmin the NX graphics will be incredible.

Again, the only rumor suggesting it's a tablet is the one suggesting it's Nvidia.  If it's not Nvidia, it's also not a tablet, so AMD "fitting" isn't an issue. 

And yes, the 3DS failure does discredit them. When you show you are willing to publish rumours that are eventually proven wrong, there is reason to doubt anything they publish.

Expect a true home console for NX, with a portable element. 



TheLastStarFighter said:
Slimebeast said:

But hey, the 3DS was release like 5 years ago. Hardly does it damage Eurogamer's credibility if they were wrong on that perdiction back then.

Also, the big factor against the AMD theory is that to my knowledge AMD doesn't have any GPU that can fit into a portable sized hybrid console, right?

Arufly ~0.5TFLOP GPU performancer by the NX would be certainly enuff to make beautiful looking Nintendo games. It wouldn't be enuff to make multiplatforms look good, but Nintendo isn't reliable on multiplatforms for its success anyway.

If the NX would be on par with Xbox One at 1.3 TFLOPS it would be a huge bonus, even if it was available just in "home console mode", but I don't expect it. It would mean incredible graphics and a major success. But the visual looks of the new open world Zelda suggests the NX will be rufly 0.5 TFLOPs (I know it runs on a Wii U, but judging from the engine design and stuff you can extrapolate and determine how the NX version will look. I think you can clearly see that the game is not being designed with Xbox One level of performance in mind).

The new Zelda to me doesn't look 100% pleasing because it's a bit blurry, but for other Nintendo games like Donkey Kong, Mario and Picmin the NX graphics will be incredible.

Again, the only rumor suggesting it's a tablet is the one suggesting it's Nvidia.  If it's not Nvidia, it's also not a tablet, so AMD "fitting" isn't an issue. 

And yes, the 3DS failure does discredit them. When you show you are willing to publish rumours that are eventually proven wrong, there is reason to doubt anything they publish.

Expect a true home console for NX, with a portable element. 

Yes, expect Nintend to put the 60 million sector of their hardware to the back seat, so their thriving home console business can be the primary ... uh wait ... 

Eurogamer isn't the only one reporting this. IGN and Peer Schnedier have verified it with their own sources. Peer Schneider has been covering Nintendo online for longer than some people have been alive on this board. Wall Street Journal, LPVG, Semi Accurate are also saying Nvidia based Tegra processor. 

Even Julien Chieze, who SuperMetalDave64 was touted as a main source is now also saying that NX is a hybrid device with the detachable controllers. 

The day dreaming over AMD tech is the same as the Wii U/Wii 2/Project Cafe days when a certain porition of the Nintendo fanbase whipped themselves into a frenzy by convincing themselves Nintendo had to use the AMD 4850 (a 1 TFLOP GPU) because "it just made sense". The actual Wii U turned out to be nowhere near that. It's nice AMD has this tech. Nintendo won't be using it though. 



Soundwave said:

Yes, expect Nintend to put the 60 million sector of their hardware to the back seat, so their thriving home console business can be the primary ... uh wait ... 

Eurogamer isn't the only one reporting this. IGN and Peer Schnedier have verified it with their own sources. Peer Schneider has been covering Nintendo online for longer than some people have been alive on this board. Wall Street Journal, LPVG, Semi Accurate are also saying Nvidia based Tegra processor. 

Even Julien Chieze, who SuperMetalDave64 was touted as a main source is now also saying that NX is a hybrid device with the detachable controllers. 

The day dreaming over AMD tech is the same as the Wii U/Wii 2/Project Cafe days when a certain porition of the Nintendo fanbase whipped themselves into a frenzy by convincing themselves Nintendo had to use the AMD 4850 (a 1 TFLOP GPU) because "it just made sense". The actual Wii U turned out to be nowhere near that. It's nice AMD has this tech. Nintendo won't be using it though. 

Completely off-topic, but sometimes I hope Nintendo launches a home and a handheld console just to see how you and Miyamotoo would react.

You know, just for fun.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

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globalisateur said:
I hope Nintendo will chose Nvidia for their tablet. AMD would be a terrible choice. And it's too late for using that tech for NX anyways.

Eh... they have 5 months, it's plenty of time to start production imho...



JEMC said:
Soundwave said:

Yes, expect Nintend to put the 60 million sector of their hardware to the back seat, so their thriving home console business can be the primary ... uh wait ... 

Eurogamer isn't the only one reporting this. IGN and Peer Schnedier have verified it with their own sources. Peer Schneider has been covering Nintendo online for longer than some people have been alive on this board. Wall Street Journal, LPVG, Semi Accurate are also saying Nvidia based Tegra processor. 

Even Julien Chieze, who SuperMetalDave64 was touted as a main source is now also saying that NX is a hybrid device with the detachable controllers. 

The day dreaming over AMD tech is the same as the Wii U/Wii 2/Project Cafe days when a certain porition of the Nintendo fanbase whipped themselves into a frenzy by convincing themselves Nintendo had to use the AMD 4850 (a 1 TFLOP GPU) because "it just made sense". The actual Wii U turned out to be nowhere near that. It's nice AMD has this tech. Nintendo won't be using it though. 

Completely off-topic, but sometimes I hope Nintendo launches a home and a handheld console just to see how you and Miyamotoo would react.

You know, just for fun.

I personally would probably prefer it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense logically (some Nintendo fans are in denial about this, but a Nintendo console at this stage would get slaughtered by the PS4+Neo/XB1+Scorpio) but beyond that there's too many sources saying hybrid and there are also curious comments from Nintendo where they keep referring to the NX in the singular tense. 

Also I'm old enough to have seen this song and dance before, with both the Wii and Wii U there was a vocal group of Nintendo fans that hyped the chipset for both machines (then Project: Revolution and Project: Cafe respectively) to be a lot better than what they actually ended up being because better technology was available at the time so naturally "it would make sense" for Nintendo to use that. 

I even remember Perrin Kaplan, of Nintendo of America at the time, getting roasted and called all types of ugly names when she said Revolution (Wii) would only be 2-3x the power of the GameCube and some people throwing a little shit-fit and saying she had no idea what she was talking about. 

If it was only Eurogamer, I would understand caution, but there are like 5-6 other sources now saying that and these are reputable sites, not little fan sites either. 



Soundwave said:
JEMC said:

Completely off-topic, but sometimes I hope Nintendo launches a home and a handheld console just to see how you and Miyamotoo would react.

You know, just for fun.

I personally would probably prefer it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense logically (some Nintendo fans are in denial about this, but a Nintendo console at this stage would get slaughtered by the PS4+Neo/XB1+Scorpio) but beyond that there's too many sources saying hybrid and there are also curious comments from Nintendo where they keep referring to the NX in the singular tense. 

Also I'm old enough to have seen this song and dance before, with both the Wii and Wii U there was a vocal group of Nintendo fans that hyped the chipset for both machines (then Project: Revolution and Project: Cafe respectively) to be a lot better than what they actually ended up being because better technology was available at the time so naturally "it would make sense" for Nintendo to use that. 

I even remember Perrin Kaplan, of Nintendo of America at the time, getting roasted and called all types of ugly names when she said Revolution (Wii) would only be 2-3x the power of the GameCube and some people throwing a little shit-fit and saying she had no idea what she was talking about. 

If it was only Eurogamer, I would understand caution, but there are like 5-6 other sources now saying that and these are reputable sites, not little fan sites either. 

There will be a screen. There will be detachable controllers. It just won't be a tablet that plugs into the Tv, but rather a console that you can take the screened controller with you and do unique things.



JEMC said:
Soundwave said:

Yes, expect Nintend to put the 60 million sector of their hardware to the back seat, so their thriving home console business can be the primary ... uh wait ... 

Eurogamer isn't the only one reporting this. IGN and Peer Schnedier have verified it with their own sources. Peer Schneider has been covering Nintendo online for longer than some people have been alive on this board. Wall Street Journal, LPVG, Semi Accurate are also saying Nvidia based Tegra processor. 

Even Julien Chieze, who SuperMetalDave64 was touted as a main source is now also saying that NX is a hybrid device with the detachable controllers. 

The day dreaming over AMD tech is the same as the Wii U/Wii 2/Project Cafe days when a certain porition of the Nintendo fanbase whipped themselves into a frenzy by convincing themselves Nintendo had to use the AMD 4850 (a 1 TFLOP GPU) because "it just made sense". The actual Wii U turned out to be nowhere near that. It's nice AMD has this tech. Nintendo won't be using it though. 

Completely off-topic, but sometimes I hope Nintendo launches a home and a handheld console just to see how you and Miyamotoo would react.

You know, just for fun.

This made me smile. I don't think that Nintendo would make a console out of spite, but it still is funny.



TheLastStarFighter said:
Soundwave said:

I personally would probably prefer it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense logically (some Nintendo fans are in denial about this, but a Nintendo console at this stage would get slaughtered by the PS4+Neo/XB1+Scorpio) but beyond that there's too many sources saying hybrid and there are also curious comments from Nintendo where they keep referring to the NX in the singular tense. 

Also I'm old enough to have seen this song and dance before, with both the Wii and Wii U there was a vocal group of Nintendo fans that hyped the chipset for both machines (then Project: Revolution and Project: Cafe respectively) to be a lot better than what they actually ended up being because better technology was available at the time so naturally "it would make sense" for Nintendo to use that. 

I even remember Perrin Kaplan, of Nintendo of America at the time, getting roasted and called all types of ugly names when she said Revolution (Wii) would only be 2-3x the power of the GameCube and some people throwing a little shit-fit and saying she had no idea what she was talking about. 

If it was only Eurogamer, I would understand caution, but there are like 5-6 other sources now saying that and these are reputable sites, not little fan sites either. 

There will be a screen. There will be detachable controllers. It just won't be a tablet that plugs into the Tv, but rather a console that you can take the screened controller with you and do unique things.

That's basically ... a gaming tablet. 

And it won't "plug in" to the TV, because it's 2016 and we don't need for it to plug into the TV, it can wirelessly stream to a receiver/dock/dongle, Nintendo already invested in this technology for Wii U but Chromecast also does it (as do many other devices). 

Such a device is not going to have a AMD GPU that consumes 45-50 watts of electricity either. That would kill even a giant laptop sized battery in 45 minutes.