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Forums - Gaming Discussion - To Pixel or not to Pixel, that is the question.

torok said:

I don't live in the US, so it is a normal unlocked phone here and a great option. Anyway, the Pixel phone are also Verizon exclusives in the US, unless you buy them off-contract. The Z Play can also be bought off-contract (with US warranty) in Amazon, so it's basically the same.

The reason why people care about SD card slots it's because phone manufacturers usually demand a huge extra for more storage. Usually, a jump from 32 to 64GB will demand a 50 bucks increase while the real cost is around 6 to 10 bucks. Also, we have some stupid options:

- Pixel phone have 32 or 128GB. 32 is too low for a phone without SD, so you have to jump all the way to 128GB.

- iPhone SE. Either 16GB or 64GB. As 16GB would make the phone as useful as a brick, you have to go all the way up to 64GB.

My X Play has 32GB of internal memory and supports up to 128GB in a SD. So I could get more storage than the high end pixel phone by less. I could even use a fast class 10 card and merge it with my internal memory to get a super storage. Right now, I'm rocking a simpla 16GB card not merged with my storage. I use it to put my musics, films, etc. My internal storage is basically just pics and apps. The SD card allows me to have way more memory paying less and to decide how much I want instead of depending on what the manufacturer thinks it's best for me. I really can't see why having this option is bad. I could get a simple Moto G3, a mid-end Android device, and put a 128GB card on it and it would have more memory than any Pixel phone while costing 1/4 of the price. I think that this sound pretty ridiculous as it really is.

As for updates, the Pixel site says 2 years of OS updates + 1 extra of security patches. It's quite low for a phone that promises a "fully integrated Google experience". As I said, it's basically asking a huge premium and not delivering much more than other manufacturers. I could get Moto phones for half the price with 2-year updates. A Galaxy S7 is cheaper and also includes this. The problem is that you buy the phone now and your only promise is 2 years. When we discover if it will be more or not, it will be too late to worry about this.

Google promised a revolutionary event, but I'm not really seeing any revolution. It's basically the same thing as a Samsung or LG high-end phone. If it works, it's just because Google will put heavy marketing on it. I expected much more, maybe more years of support or something like that. Next year, the S8 will arrive with a better screen, SoC, camera, etc. Hell, maybe even the S7 already beats the Pixels since its screen is better and the Exynos variant may be faster. Even the camera is a mattter of discussion since Pixel doesn't have OIS. It has a higher DxOMark score, but that tests are done with tripods, so the real-world performance may be significantly affected.

In US, you can only buy and use the Z Play on Verizon's network. Pixel can be bought (Verizon, Best Buy and Google Store) separately and used on any carrier.

As for SD Card, I have used 16GB phones without issue and will have this 32GB. I also know very few people who buy SD cards for phones, but of course that is all personal pref and an option is always better than no option I guess.

As for updates, that is the Google policy they introduced last year. It's not new with Pixel and even before that, Google simply didn't have a written policy. Basically, Google has proven they will update as long as they can. Most mid-tier phones only do one or zero updates of the OS. Top-tier will do one or two. (obviously referring to Android only) Difference with Nexus / Pixel is that they will get them first and come with a much higher chance of getting them a 3rd or 4th time.

True, Pixel is not "revolutionary" from other top-tier phones. Personally, I was waiting to see if Z Play would come unlocked in US, but it doesn't, so I chose Pixel. I think the revolutionary point they are wanting to push is Assistant, Fi and a first time ever top-tier stock Android experience. Also, referring to next year is silly as every company, including Google, have newer better phones every year. As discussed earlier in this thread, Pixel is right in-line with other top-tier phones in terms of harware, functionality and price. Difference really is that it comes with a better OS experience.



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Captain_Yuri said:
LurkerJ said:

Thanks for posting this and enlightening people  It gets tiring to refute claims about Apple being cheap with the iPhone components.

You should check my previous post since you seem to like Samsung products, even if you are not a fan of voice assistants, you should know that Samsung has acquired more than Viv, the talent and the minds behind Viv will surely put to use in other areas as well.

No worries. I always feel like Galaxy and iphone devices get unwarranted hate these days. Now don't get me wrong, when the company does something stupid like the lack of a headphone jack or Note 7's exploding battery, then sure, criticize them. But both Apple and Samsung have things in them which set them apart from the rest. And it is the biggest reason (apart from marketing) why its always iphone vs Galaxy and not iphone vs (insert other phone manufacturers). Both are great devices in their respective ways and both will continue to compete with each other because they are the best (subjectively and sales wize) that the industry has to offer.

Yup, not getting an iPhone 7 because of the lack of the headphone jack, when my 6s dies I'll reassess the situation. I obviously want Sammy to continue to improve and keep competitors on their toes, it's unfortunate the Note 7 image got tainted by unintentional mistake, I personally think it's the most interesting Android handset, from a hardware perspective at least.

The assistant is interesting but knowing Samsung and Google, most likely the Galaxy S devices will get both. Google will try to push their assistant to as many devices as possible because that is the entire point of machine learning. It needs to learn to be effective and it can't do on Pixel devices alone. So when Android N for Galaxy S devices come around, I am sure it will get the Assistant like how it has Google Now and S Voice currently. And then when Samsung is ready to launch their assistant, Galaxy S devices will most likely have both.

I think Samsung is in the best position to make the smart home vision come true, they already make some of the best TVs, fridges, washing machines, air conditioners, smartphones, robotic cleaners, more importantly, they also make the components that make these devices come to life (SSDs, RAM, CPUs, camera sesonsors, motors, etc). I imagine the next step is diving into A.I and implementing it into those products, they can rely on Android advancement of course, but they can also invest in Viv and accelerate those advancement or steer them in a way that compliments their vision better.... or I am just wishfuly thinking



LurkerJ said:
Captain_Yuri said:

No worries. I always feel like Galaxy and iphone devices get unwarranted hate these days. Now don't get me wrong, when the company does something stupid like the lack of a headphone jack or Note 7's exploding battery, then sure, criticize them. But both Apple and Samsung have things in them which set them apart from the rest. And it is the biggest reason (apart from marketing) why its always iphone vs Galaxy and not iphone vs (insert other phone manufacturers). Both are great devices in their respective ways and both will continue to compete with each other because they are the best (subjectively and sales wize) that the industry has to offer.

Yup, not getting an iPhone 7 because of the lack of the headphone jack, when my 6s dies I'll reassess the situation. I obviously want Sammy to continue to improve and keep competitors on their toes, it's unfortunate the Note 7 image got tainted by unintentional mistake, I personally think it's the most interesting Android handset, from a hardware perspective at least.

The assistant is interesting but knowing Samsung and Google, most likely the Galaxy S devices will get both. Google will try to push their assistant to as many devices as possible because that is the entire point of machine learning. It needs to learn to be effective and it can't do on Pixel devices alone. So when Android N for Galaxy S devices come around, I am sure it will get the Assistant like how it has Google Now and S Voice currently. And then when Samsung is ready to launch their assistant, Galaxy S devices will most likely have both.

I think Samsung is in the best position to make the smart home vision come true, they already make some of the best TVs, fridges, washing machines, air conditioners, smartphones, robotic cleaners, more importantly, they also make the components that make these devices come to life (SSDs, RAM, CPUs, camera sesonsors, motors, etc). I imagine the next step is diving into A.I and implementing it into those products, they can rely on Android advancement of course, but they can also invest in Viv and accelerate those advancement or steer them in a way that compliments their vision better.... or I am just wishfuly thinking

Loll I actually havn't thought of it that way! You are right about them being in the best position to make the smart home design come true with all the different products they make. Specially with their Tizen OS which seems to be in every one of their products these days since they can code it to the metal similarly to iOS. It is crazy to think that they started as a fish selling company.



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Captain_Yuri said:

 

Just wanted to point out the difference in water resistance between Pixel and S7 since it was confirmed it has some resistance since we originally thought Pixel had nothing. Pixel is basically the former standard before Samsung started pushing waterproofing last year. I still think its a non-issue but a nice-to-have.

http://www.dsmt.com/resources/ip-rating-chart/

Pixel is IP53

Solids: 5

Dust Protected Ingress of dust is not entirely prevented, but it must not enter in sufficient quantity to interfere with the satisfactory operation of the equipment; complete protection against contact.

Liquids: 3

Spraying water Water falling as a spray at any angle up to 60° from the vertical shall have no harmful effect.

Galaxy S7 is IP68

Solids: 6 (highest)

Dust Tight No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact.

Liquids: 8 (highest - up to 30m)

Immersion beyond 1m The equipment is suitable for continuous immersion in water under conditions which shall be specified by the manufacturer. Normally, this will mean that the equipment is hermetically sealed. However, with certain types of equipment, it can mean that water can enter but only in such a manner that it produces no harmful effects.

 

Also - Pixel is rated as the best smartphone camera ever.

"DxO gave the Pixel a score of 89, which is the highest score they have ever given a smartphone."

http://phandroid.com/2016/10/04/the-pixels-camera-received-the-highest-score-ever-on-dxomark/ 

http://phandroid.com/2016/10/04/google-pixel-photo-samples/



superchunk said:

I for one am very excited to see this. I loved Nexus phones due to remaining pure Android, no bloatware and carrier unlocked.

Great camera, casing, CPU/GPU, storage, upgrades to Google services, vanilla Android and universally unlocked...

AFAIK, it is NOT universally unlocked, only those bought direct from Google,
they are also selling them thru carriers such as Verizon and ones found in retail stores may likely be Verizon versions.
In these cases, Verizon can "customize" the OS, and is in control of OS updates
 (although they will likely benefit since exact hardware spec is being targetted for updates by Google).

So really, the question is what is specially attractive here vs. Nexus phones or similar near-vanilla phones (e.g. Motorolla as mentioned)
Specific hardware differences per model, but drawing from all manfacturers (Moto, Xiaomi, etc) should close to match any spec.

superchunk said:

Due to the weak point of a SD card connector and the type of SD Card you use, the data transfer ... is noticeable[y weak]. 

Most SD cards are weak.  If performance is important to you, get a high-spec card.  Not really inherent to removable/SD card concept. 
People mentioned Samsung's UFS, and in fact they are introducing removable cards using that spec, with speeds equivalent to SSD.
Certainly, one also needs a high-spec reader to use those fully, but that does not mean that built-in is the only option for performance.



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superchunk said:
Captain_Yuri said:

 

Just wanted to point out the difference in water resistance between Pixel and S7 since it was confirmed it has some resistance since we originally thought Pixel had nothing. Pixel is basically the former standard before Samsung started pushing waterproofing last year. I still think its a non-issue but a nice-to-have.

http://www.dsmt.com/resources/ip-rating-chart/

Pixel is IP53

Solids: 5

Dust Protected Ingress of dust is not entirely prevented, but it must not enter in sufficient quantity to interfere with the satisfactory operation of the equipment; complete protection against contact.

Liquids: 3

Spraying water Water falling as a spray at any angle up to 60° from the vertical shall have no harmful effect.

Galaxy S7 is IP68

Solids: 6 (highest)

Dust Tight No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact.

Liquids: 8 (highest - up to 30m)

Immersion beyond 1m The equipment is suitable for continuous immersion in water under conditions which shall be specified by the manufacturer. Normally, this will mean that the equipment is hermetically sealed. However, with certain types of equipment, it can mean that water can enter but only in such a manner that it produces no harmful effects.

 

Also - Pixel is rated as the best smartphone camera ever.

"DxO gave the Pixel a score of 89, which is the highest score they have ever given a smartphone."

http://phandroid.com/2016/10/04/the-pixels-camera-received-the-highest-score-ever-on-dxomark/ 

http://phandroid.com/2016/10/04/google-pixel-photo-samples/

Firstly. IP53 is such a weak sauce rating that its not even worth mentioning. Virtually every smartphone may as well have that rating hence why Google or any other smartphone manufacturer doesn't bother to mention it. You can't even find that rating on Google's tech specs on their site, thats how meaningless it is.

Secondly, DxO's smartphone ratings are questionable at best. When the HTC 10 was being announced, HTC used DxO's benchmark site. DxO gave the HTC 10's camera the same score as the Galaxy S7's camera. But guess what? When the phones came out, in virtually every other site, the Galaxy S7's camera performed a lot better than the HTC 10's camera ever could.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/139069-dxo-mark-is-another-smartphone-benchmark-you-can-ignore

And also not to mention that is only 1 site... They don't govern whether it's the best camera or not. And even if it was, it does trade blows with the S7's camera which sits at 88 on their site vs 89. And the S7 has OIS which the pixel doesn't hence in real world tests that isn't produced by a questionable site, it should be a lot more stable.



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

mutantsushi said:
superchunk said:

I for one am very excited to see this. I loved Nexus phones due to remaining pure Android, no bloatware and carrier unlocked.

Great camera, casing, CPU/GPU, storage, upgrades to Google services, vanilla Android and universally unlocked...

AFAIK, it is NOT universally unlocked, only those bought direct from Google,
they are also selling them thru carriers such as Verizon and ones found in retail stores may likely be Verizon versions.
In these cases, Verizon can "customize" the OS, and is in control of OS updates
 (although they will likely benefit since exact hardware spec is being targetted for updates by Google).

So really, the question is what is specially attractive here vs. Nexus phones or similar near-vanilla phones (e.g. Motorolla as mentioned)
Specific hardware differences per model, but drawing from all manfacturers (Moto, Xiaomi, etc) should close to match any spec.

superchunk said:

Due to the weak point of a SD card connector and the type of SD Card you use, the data transfer ... is noticeable[y weak]. 

Most SD cards are weak.  If performance is important to you, get a high-spec card.  Not really inherent to removable/SD card concept. 
People mentioned Samsung's UFS, and in fact they are introducing removable cards using that spec, with speeds equivalent to SSD.
Certainly, one also needs a high-spec reader to use those fully, but that does not mean that built-in is the only option for performance.

Verizon has always had control of when an update hits its phones with the only exception being Apple. This is partly why Nexus phones were only once sold directly by Verizon. Google wanted Verizon to budge on that like they did for Apple. With Pixel, Google realized it was better to allow Verizon the final approval for updates vs having full control so that they will be on biggest US carrier up front (and others later). But the are no OS changes beyond pre-installed Verizon apps which I'm sure you can delete as you could on last Verizon Nexus. As with any phone on Verizon (or other US carrier) you can pay phone off and ask to be carrier unlocked (even iPhone is carrier locked if you buy directly from that carrier).

Then of course you can buy from Google directly, which is what I was referring to as universally unlocked and the way it will sell internationally.  

I have no interest in buying an SD card. I use Google's services and have never ran out of room with 16GB, don't see why 32GB will be an impact on my usage style. Though I do see why some may find that a benefit, especially if they don't use Google's free services (unlimited backup, unlimited music, etc) to their fullest extent or use a lot of apps. More to the point, regardless of the highest quality SD card you buy, you still have a bigger risk of it failing, slower connection than an internal memory design.



Captain_Yuri said:

Secondly, DxO's smartphone ratings are questionable at best. When the HTC 10 was being announced, HTC used DxO's benchmark site. DxO gave the HTC 10's camera the same score as the Galaxy S7's camera. But guess what? When the phones came out, in virtually every other site, the Galaxy S7's camera performed a lot better than the HTC 10's camera ever could.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/139069-dxo-mark-is-another-smartphone-benchmark-you-can-ignore

And also not to mention that is only 1 site... They don't govern whether it's the best camera or not. And even if it was, it does trade blows with the S7's camera which sits at 88 on their site vs 89. And the S7 has OIS which the pixel doesn't hence in real world tests that isn't produced by a questionable site, it should be a lot more stable.

The articles I posted stated the same thing as you did regarding the HTC 10 and stated we'll need to wait for real-world comparisons, which is why I also provided a lot of sample pics.

Additionally, your link says the rating has merit, but they prefer how the camera functions... i.e. its usefullness not just the score. Obviously, we'll have to wait to see how its usefullness compares to what Sammy uses in its cameras (and frankly I think iPhone does a tremendous job with this... their UX is fantastic). Using my wife's S6... I don't think it is all that great. iPhone UX is certainly better IMO and better than stock Android as well. Guess we'll have to wait and see how Pixel handles this.

As for your repeated OIS, http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/10/04/google_s_new_pixel_phone_features_an_impressive_camera.html

We'll need to wait-and-see when it launches.



superchunk said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Secondly, DxO's smartphone ratings are questionable at best. When the HTC 10 was being announced, HTC used DxO's benchmark site. DxO gave the HTC 10's camera the same score as the Galaxy S7's camera. But guess what? When the phones came out, in virtually every other site, the Galaxy S7's camera performed a lot better than the HTC 10's camera ever could.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/139069-dxo-mark-is-another-smartphone-benchmark-you-can-ignore

And also not to mention that is only 1 site... They don't govern whether it's the best camera or not. And even if it was, it does trade blows with the S7's camera which sits at 88 on their site vs 89. And the S7 has OIS which the pixel doesn't hence in real world tests that isn't produced by a questionable site, it should be a lot more stable.

The articles I posted stated the same thing as you did regarding the HTC 10 and stated we'll need to wait for real-world comparisons, which is why I also provided a lot of sample pics.

Additionally, your link says the rating has merit, but they prefer how the camera functions... i.e. its usefullness not just the score. Obviously, we'll have to wait to see how its usefullness compares to what Sammy uses in its cameras (and frankly I think iPhone does a tremendous job with this... their UX is fantastic). Using my wife's S6... I don't think it is all that great. iPhone UX is certainly better IMO and better than stock Android as well. Guess we'll have to wait and see how Pixel handles this.

As for your repeated OIS, http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/10/04/google_s_new_pixel_phone_features_an_impressive_camera.html

We'll need to wait-and-see when it launches.

Yea but sample pics aren't exactly what I would call solid proof. There are tons of sample pics from tons of other smartphones that aren't even at the top which look great. Doesn't mean they are...

The rating does have some merit but it is questionable none the less. I highly doubt a camera without OIS is more useful than a camera with OIS... Not sure whats so bad about Samsung's Camera app either considering the high praise about it from virtually every reviewer. Or is it just "I don't like it cause I don't like Samsung" sorta deal.

And yes, we all saw google's press event. And we all know EIS is a thing that has been around for a while. There is a difference between google's internal testing vs real world and same goes for every other smartphone. The Galaxy S7 has both EIS and OIS where as Pixel only has EIS. A great version of EIS certainly but it still only has EIS. Optical image stablization will always produce more better results than Electronic will due to the fact that the camera itself is moving in OIS. EIS also generally has a loss in image quality and resolution comparatively, specially in low light. But sure, we shall see as the phone continues to lack things other flagships have...

https://www.motionelements.com/blog/articles/eis-or-ois-your-guide-to-image-stabilization-systems



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

I think the phone is awesome.