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How are white people supposed to feel about their own race?

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SuaveSocialist said:
Leadified said:

 So apparently Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Imperial Japan, the Ottoman Empire and all particpating countries of both world wars were all captialist countries that at the same time fought against the capitalist system and the main proponents of capitalism, go figure. I'm almost suprised that the Soviet Union wasn't included as a "capitalist" country. It's rather ironic that Maoists out of all people trying to tell others how evil capitalism is because how many people they claim it killed.

There is some amazing display of ignorance in those links, such as portraying the Arab Slave Trade as capitalism's fault, when capitalism didn't even exist yet, instead they were fedual and mercantillist socities. Capitalism appeared as a response to the latter one.

All these body counts for socialism and captialism serve no real purpose but to fuel internet arguments. If you think socialism is the way to go, all power to you, you can believe in whatever you want but you can do better than the links you just posted.

I guess you missed the very first paragraph as well.  give it another read.

You might want to give mine another read too. But if you're not going to address my post then don't bother replying.



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Leadified said:
SuaveSocialist said:

I guess you missed the very first paragraph as well.  give it another read.

You might want to give mine another read too. But if you're not going to address my post then don't bother replying.

Took the words right out of my mouth.  That first link was merely sourcing the quote, the second sourcing my claim that there are estimates reaching 1.6 Billion.  you didn't refute my claim that higher estimates existed, nor did you even try to refute the most conservative of estimates.  So my initial claim went unchallenged and your little essay tried to red herring the goalposts of an estimate that needn't exist at all for my initial claim to remain true.

As you had nothing to add despite a handy little arrow to my actual point, I will abide your request and not bother replying to you anymore.  Bye!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bye!



SuaveSocialist said:
Leadified said:

You might want to give mine another read too. But if you're not going to address my post then don't bother replying.

Took the words right out of my mouth.  That first link was merely sourcing the quote, the second sourcing my claim that there are estimates reaching 1.6 Billion.  you didn't refute my claim that higher estimates existed, nor did you even try to refute the most conservative of estimates.  So my initial claim went unchallenged and your little essay tried to red herring the goalposts of an estimate that needn't exist at all for my initial claim to remain true.

As you had nothing to add despite a handy little arrow to my actual point, I will abide your request and not bother replying to you anymore.  Bye!

Bye!

I've noticed several of your posts in here being particularly condescending. It isn't becoming, so, ease up!



                                                                                                                                            

SuaveSocialist said:
Leadified said:

You might want to give mine another read too. But if you're not going to address my post then don't bother replying.

Took the words right out of my mouth.  That first link was merely sourcing the quote, the second sourcing my claim that there are estimates reaching 1.6 Billion.  you didn't refute my claim that higher estimates existed, nor did you even try to refute the most conservative of estimates.  So my initial claim went unchallenged and your little essay tried to red herring the goalposts of an estimate that needn't exist at all for my initial claim to remain true.

As you had nothing to add despite a handy little arrow to my actual point, I will abide your request and not bother replying to you anymore.  Bye!

Bye!

I'm not quite sure why you're so flustered over my post and improperly calling out logical fallacies for some reason. All I did was explain in short that the links you have provided are dubious, therefore they're not reliable. If you were willing to have a decent conversation then you would have seen this but apparently this is not your intention here. I don't know what was so offensive to prompt such a reaction but I have nothing more to discuss with you if you're going to act like this.

Bye.



Not very suave.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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SuaveSocialist said:
DonFerrari said:

So we have several centuries atributed to capitalism in the death count on the whole world versus some decades of direct famine death and execution on socialism and you want to use the same balance?

I used the whole world for the case of Capitalism's death toll?  Read my first paragraph again.  The US alone more than doubled the world's death toll for "Socialism".  It also managed to surpass "Socialism's" death toll in less than half the time.  The first link also illustrates that it only takes less than six years for Capitalism in the modern world to systemically cause more deaths than "Socialism" has in its totality--and that's only looking at systemic causes of death!

The second link is the big picture, comparing all the world's capitalism-induced deaths vs "Socialism's".  (Socialism is in brackets because it is Communism that takes the Credit for 100M deaths, not Socialism).

Your cognitive dissonance is showing.

The reason I ignore the "study" you present is because the 100M count of socialism is due to direct execution of people that don't agree with the system inside the country or people that are in the party but are seem as adversary plus the ones killed by the central planning socialism applies. USA couldn't kill 200M inside their own borders even if they tried. War isn't due to capitalism (since socialism and prior to both systems it already occured) so you can only count what was caused by the mechanisms of the system. Famine in africa isn't capitalism (even more when a lot of those countries are socialist).

Final-Fan said:
DonFerrari said:

It isn't painting all with the same brush, is saying that one degree or another group leaders try more to get benefits to themselves than to benefit others. Is all socialists evil? No, but all that arose to absolute power are. They start asking for equal rights and better payment and end as kings.

I explain that quality of life followed industrialization and better wages followed more value (and wealth) being created. You can't share what you don't have.

1.  So you're saying "they are all greedy and selfish, but not to the exact same degree".  That's not exactly refuting my point.  By now it seems to me the basis for your position is "power corrupts", which could easily be applied to the corporations you seem to claim the unions are victimizing, or the government, or anyone. 

2.  Decent wages followed industrialization at quite a distance, coincidentally right when unionization gained steam?  The same happened with society addressing horrible work conditions, wage slavery, et cetera? 

1. Unless you want to refute human kind then you can't put that it's invalid. No, power don't corrupt, corrupts seek power to use it that way. I couldn't care less about the corporations or unions. The only problem is that the direct effect of demanding more from the corporations get throw back at the society right away. Again, it's impossible to give what you don't have, and since corporations need to make profit, if you raise the costs (like by demanding bigger wages) you will raise the price and the society will have to pay it, and then the same money will value less.

2. Sure the way things were 150 years ago are still the same right now right?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
Final-Fan said:

1.  So you're saying "they are all greedy and selfish, but not to the exact same degree".  That's not exactly refuting my point.  By now it seems to me the basis for your position is "power corrupts", which could easily be applied to the corporations you seem to claim the unions are victimizing, or the government, or anyone. 

2.  Decent wages followed industrialization at quite a distance, coincidentally right when unionization gained steam?  The same happened with society addressing horrible work conditions, wage slavery, et cetera? 

1. Unless you want to refute human kind then you can't put that it's invalid. No, power don't corrupt, corrupts seek power to use it that way. I couldn't care less about the corporations or unions. The only problem is that the direct effect of demanding more from the corporations get throw back at the society right away. Again, it's impossible to give what you don't have, and since corporations need to make profit, if you raise the costs (like by demanding bigger wages) you will raise the price and the society will have to pay it, and then the same money will value less.

2. Sure the way things were 150 years ago are still the same right now right?

1.  It's naive to think that there's a 1:1 relationship between raising or lowering wages and what corporations charge the public for their goods and services.

2.  You have yet to explicitly admit that unions EVER had a good effect on the workforce.  Will you do so now? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
DonFerrari said:

1. Unless you want to refute human kind then you can't put that it's invalid. No, power don't corrupt, corrupts seek power to use it that way. I couldn't care less about the corporations or unions. The only problem is that the direct effect of demanding more from the corporations get throw back at the society right away. Again, it's impossible to give what you don't have, and since corporations need to make profit, if you raise the costs (like by demanding bigger wages) you will raise the price and the society will have to pay it, and then the same money will value less.

2. Sure the way things were 150 years ago are still the same right now right?

1.  It's naive to think that there's a 1:1 relationship between raising or lowering wages and what corporations charge the public for their goods and services.

2.  You have yet to explicitly admit that unions EVER had a good effect on the workforce.  Will you do so now? 

1. And I didn't said it's a 1:1... so do would you say it's a 1:1 relationship between raising wages and % of union?

2. I didn't denied they had good effect, I'm saying what their inner interest is based on their leaders behavior.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

How are white people supposed to feel about their race? I don't know about anyone else. But I don't feel anything. I am me and that is as far as it goes.

Should I be ashamed/embarrassed of my race's past? Good lord no. It is just something we really should be learning from (yet so many seemingly prefer to be inspired by it)

Is my wealth and prosperity built on the back of other races being exploited? Probably not. I'd say it's more likely from the industrialisation that was pioneered (and hugely fought against) on my back yard that led to that. Though there's been one hell of a rebalancing since the Luddites era.

Do I give a flying f**k how over entitled people who feel their ancestors faced injustice in the past and so everyone should bow down to them and give special treatment? Nope.

People are just really selective with history and trying to treat people differently due to their ancestral origins is divisive and continues to perpetuate a divided and racist society which is something I would personally love for us all to be able to get past.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

DonFerrari said:
Final-Fan said:

1.  It's naive to think that there's a 1:1 relationship between raising or lowering wages and what corporations charge the public for their goods and services.

2.  You have yet to explicitly admit that unions EVER had a good effect on the workforce.  Will you do so now? 

1. And I didn't said it's a 1:1... so do would you say it's a 1:1 relationship between raising wages and % of union?

2. I didn't denied they had good effect, I'm saying what their inner interest is based on their leaders behavior.

1.  Fair enough.  No, although I think the relationship between a union-influenced workplace and general worker protection and benefits is closer than in the other comparison. 

2.  I had the impression that your position was that unions today are basically just out to line their own pockets and do little or nothing to benefit workers in practice.  If that's not your position, then okay, and other than that I'm not even sure where this line of inquiry is going any more, to be honest. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!