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Forums - Politics Discussion - 11 officers shot, 1 bystander shot during protests over recent shootings

Nuvendil said:
KiigelHeart said:

I watched a video of this incident and I honestly can't believe these cops are considered professional. They have a reason to believe a suspect is carrying a gun and they pull over right next to him wtf? Police is supposed to control the situation, there was no-one in immediate danger so you keep your distance and look for solution. Shooting a 12-year-old kid should be an absolute last resort, there are projectile weapons, tasers and good old verbal karate.

Some of these videos of American cops are unbelieveable to watch, like this Tamir Rice video. I refuse to believe they always handle situations this badly and this is not meant to be anti-police post. I've been a police for over 8 years now and I have respect for cops all around the world, it ain't easy shit we do.

No, they don't normally handle situations this way.  The majority of police interventions and actions are above board, the far far majority.  And the vast majority of cops don't discharge their fire arm in the line of duty at all during their careers.  Shoot, in 2015 the total number of times guns were fired in NY by officers was 65.  And the NYPD is enormous, 35,000 strong.  And the number of police involved shootings has in general been on the decline for years, along with the violent crime rate.  Also, keep in mind every state is different in size, regs, demographics.  So some states are lower than others.  

Sometimes it's a tragic collision of circumstances, like one man who was shot when officers mistook him for a murderer who was known to be loose and armed in the area.  The man fit the description and when the police confronted him he ignored police orders to keep his hands where they could see them and instead reached into his pocket.  Officers fired,it turned out he was going for a phone.  They followed procedure, sometimes crap happens (incidentally, if an officer has his weapon drawn do what he says and definitely don't reach behind your back, under your shirt, or into your pocket).  

Other times it's bad judgement or tragic confusion.  Police involved in bad shootings usually do lose their badges and then are exposed to civil actions.  The worst are taken to criminal court but most DAs know that it is very hard to get a jurry to convict as it requires a unanimous verdict of guilty etc etc.  

In short, yes these incidents are absolutely the FAR minority.  However, two things to keep in mind.  One, US media is HUGE and very, very loud and incidents in the States get broadcast around the world on some level whereas frankly, European crime goes pretty unnoticed over here.  Second, the US is a very big country with a very large population so numerically, there are more of these incidents than in most countries.  That's just a statistical inevitability.  Doesn't help that gunregulation is such a hot button topic and thus every single solitary shooting gets dragged out on the national and international stage to be used as ammo for one side or the other.  Also, cops doing their jobs well rarely warrants news.  So the bad stuff gets blasted over the news and the good stuff flies under the radar.  Which is par for the course for most things reall.  

Yet Europe, Japan, Canada, etc. even proportionate to their population have no where near the police killings that the US has. 

Nor is the imprisonment of its own citizens a multi-billion dollar industry that it is in the US. 

The US is fucked up when it comes to this issue. This is not normal. 

England & Wales combined had 55 police killings in the last 24 years ... the US had 59 in the first 24 days of 2015 ... that is fucked up. Germany had 3 people killed by police in 2014 and 2015 combined. 



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all these shooting on black civilians and police is sad and i hope it comes to the end

according to some silly conspiracy theories I read that this is the first event of many that will be done so that the gun agenda can be pushed and give the government reason to declare martial law and postpone/cancel the GOP/DNC conventions so that no election happens and Obama stays in power

I need to stay off that side of the internet o.o



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method114 said:
tokilamockingbrd said:
The killer clearly saw it as revenge. But, do you really think if there were no BLM movement he would not have been inspired "to take actions in his own hands". So BLM did not cause it clearly, but the demonetization of cops within the movement may have had some influence on the killer. Hate speech by those with no violent intention themselves many times inspires violence by the fringe. Hate speech against Cops, Blacks, Jews, Gays, etc it all ends the same.

anytime we allow a group to preach hate unchecked it will eventually lead to someone taking things into their own hands. from the moment BLM started I knew this would happen. In fact it already has, when the movement was just getting big a shooter in NYC killed 2 cops, just because.

Yes but you can also say that cops have contributed to this as well. Do you really think this would have happened if they weren't shooting innocent people? Lets get something straight right now the cops have killed innocent people, have lied, have set people up, used excessie force etc. All of these things including what your saying contributed to this. We can argue about individual cases all day long and which cases were right which were wrong but at the end of the day no one can deny that the cops have done all of these things and more.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/delta-pay-759k-man-caught-planted-coke-bag-article-1.2461634

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/27/floyd-dent-police-beating-cocaine_n_6952646.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/georgia-teen-holding-wii-remote-shot-cops-front-door-family-lawyer-article-1.1619842

Also the cop who killed an innocent kid who just answered the door with a wii remote was let go.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/georgia-cop-wont-be-charged-shooting-death-teen-n158306

My brother in law is a cop. In the past 2 years he has had 2 fellow officer in his district(a fairly smalltown district at that) killed by black men. He was close to one of them. He would be lying if he said he was able to put that out of the back of his mind when he was dealing with a black man. That does not mean he wants to shoot them, it means he fears for his own life and that could effect the way he escalates force. 



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tokilamockingbrd said:

My brother in law is a cop. In the past 2 years he has had 2 fellow officer in his district(a fairly smalltown district at that) killed by black men. He was close to one of them. He would be lying if he said he was able to put that out of the back of his mind when he was dealing with a black man. That does not mean he wants to shoot them, it means he fears for his own life and that could effect the way he escalates force. 

No offence dude but if he's that affected he shouldn't be policing.



It seems everyone has moved on to Pokemon Go, demonstrations are still ongoing though.
Awesome picture of Baton Rouge

Luckily mostly peaceful so far.



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shooting cops at a rally is literally the opposite way to get your point across. peacefully rally and maybe people will listen. and I don't love the cops, the police organizations, in general because plenty of them are corrupt. that said- plenty of everyday cops behave honorably and just do their job. Half the reason they're overly on edge and aggressive with people in traffic stops and stuff is probably due to paranoia and worry from things like this

in the end its a simple thing- if you're complaining about shootings then doing your own shootings is hardly gong to fix the problem. sad 



PwerlvlAmy said:
all these shooting on black civilians and police is sad and i hope it comes to the end

according to some silly conspiracy theories I read that this is the first event of many that will be done so that the gun agenda can be pushed and give the government reason to declare martial law and postpone/cancel the GOP/DNC conventions so that no election happens and Obama stays in power

I need to stay off that side of the internet o.o

Take out the last part and it sounds like it can possible happen

 

 

While I never heard anything about Obama staying in office, I am hearing a lot of people discuss the possibility of martial law. Don't think it'll happen anytime soon though 



 

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hershel_layton said:
PwerlvlAmy said:
all these shooting on black civilians and police is sad and i hope it comes to the end

according to some silly conspiracy theories I read that this is the first event of many that will be done so that the gun agenda can be pushed and give the government reason to declare martial law and postpone/cancel the GOP/DNC conventions so that no election happens and Obama stays in power

I need to stay off that side of the internet o.o

Take out the last part and it sounds like it can possible happen

 

 

While I never heard anything about Obama staying in office, I am hearing a lot of people discuss the possibility of martial law. Don't think it'll happen anytime soon though 

All the Martial Law talk is BS sensationalism.  There would need to be ten times that cop shootings and riots for nationwide Martial Law to even be considered, much less seriously considered, much less put in place.  I mean shoot, we didn't have Martial Law in 1992 when the violent crime rate was far, far higher than now.  Shoot, there wasn'the even declaration of nationwide Martial Law in the 60s or 70s, only a brief use of it in one state, that being Alabama.  

Also the Constitution clearly states in Article 1, Section 9 that "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."  Martial Law goes hand in hand in this country with suspension of that right and therefore there must be such a case as specified in the Constitution.  Also, the Posse Comitatus Act forbids military involvement in domestic law enforcement without congressional approval.  The idea that Martial Law is on the verge of being declared right now is beyond absurd.



SvennoJ said:

It seems everyone has moved on to Pokemon Go, demonstrations are still ongoing though.
Awesome picture of Baton Rouge

Luckily mostly peaceful so far.

The circlejerk around this picture is dumbfounding.



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outlawauron said:
SvennoJ said:

It seems everyone has moved on to Pokemon Go, demonstrations are still ongoing though.
Awesome picture of Baton Rouge

Luckily mostly peaceful so far.

The circlejerk around this picture is dumbfounding.

I think I've seen her before, but I have no idea whats going on in that picture. It looks super serious :o