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Forums - Politics Discussion - 11 officers shot, 1 bystander shot during protests over recent shootings

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/07/08/authorities-tenn-highway-gunman-motivated-police-shootings/86868164/

And now Tennessee.



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thismeintiel said:
method114 said:
I can't believe there are people in her justifying the shooting of Tamir Rice a 12 year old kid playing in the park. As soon as the cop opens his door he shoots that kid. Your a disgusting person if your ok with cops treating kids like this. If we want to handle adults like this ok fine they should know better but fucking 12 year old kids? What is wrong with some of you?

And I think it is disgusting to demonize cops when you have hindsight on your side.  Would you have felt the same if it turned out to be a real gun?  If you say yes, you are being niave.  If you say no, then there's your answer.  The cops thought it was real.  Maybe you should rewatch the WHOLE video of that incident, again.  How he bullies people with the gun.  The way he holds it ready in both hands as he walks towards the cops that are pulling up.  Kids aren't always the innocent darlings we wish to make them out to be.

EDIT:  Actually, I have to write a small correction.  Tamir didn't actually have the gun out.  Oh no.  He had it in his hoodie pocket.  As the cops are pulling up, (in the enhanced version) you can clearly see him reaching into the pocket to pull the gun out, that is when they fire.  So, the cops were told the kid had a gun, threatening people, then when they pull up he's walking towards them pulling the gun out of his pocket.  And you people with hindsight on your side like to say he was "only playing" and they should have known it was a toy.  I say this nicely, go pound sand.  That kid knew exactly what he was doing.  He was playing gangsta and got shot doing it.

The fact that you can sit here and say "the kid knew exactly what he was doing" is what's wrong with you. He was 12 years old. He didn't know exactly what he was doing cause if he did he would know it's stupid to pull the gun out infront of cops. I'm not saying the cops should have known. I'm saying they should have given him the benefit of the doubt. Even my CHL instructor told me the same thing and he was disgusted by the shooting.

I don't know what the age limit should be for giving the benefit of the doubt is but 12 is certainly in that age range. At the end of the day it's obvious we wont agree. To you the cops valuing their own lives over the childs is perfectly fine. IMO  they shouldn't have and if it was me I guarantee you I wouldn't have pulled the trigger. The thought of having killed a child without knowing whether it was a gun or not is much worse then death IMO. I'd rather just be dead than kill some innocent kid.



thismeintiel said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

Where is the half truth lol. Because I didn't say it looked like a real gun it makes it a half truth? How explain that to me? Whenever this discussion is brought up ALL the facts are always talked about which is this child was playing in the park by himself with a toy gun that looked real. Going up to random people acting like he shot them. Those are the facts....guess what else is a fact he died because of a trigger happy cop. Not because he was as you said "acting like a thug"  as you put it. I have to ask do you have kids? Because 99% of kids play around like they are shooting stuff and people all the time. The child may not have fully understood the situation with the cops and kept playing in his mind. So that means death? No my friend thatis not acceptable.

Well if you shot a child who you thought had a gun would you not come out and say you felt miserable? Isn't that the human thing to do if that is how you feel? And it is funny how you assume the BLM movement would not have believed them...part of the outrage was because of the lack of remorse from what happened.

Did you read that story? This man allegedly(not sure if that part is true) tried to hit the officers with his car and they opened fire and were even assumed to have a grudge against the man. Those officers were ARRESTED AND CHARGED with murder....did any of that with Tamir Rice or the most recent two shootings? Did the chilld shoot at the officers with the toy gun and justify the killing? Were they arrested and charged with murder? It is funny how you say people only see half truths but pulled up a video that goes against what you were saying because it showed the opposite of what has been happening when blacks are killed by white cops. They get off with a slap on the wrist and get to go home to their families. These officers were charged and arrested. You can't see the difference here? That's the argument that has been being made.

The half truth is how you approach the story.  You really just want it to be about a black kid playing in the park with a toy gun that was shot by a trigger happy cop.  You actually watch the vid you get the whole picture.  The kid was bullying people, not playing, with an airsoft pistol that looked exactly like a real gun.  And unless you have some sick perversion for the word play or you are just using that word to continue to push your narrative, he was not playing.  He was threatening to shoot them with what they thought was a real gun.  The police are called.  The second the kid sees the cops coming, he starts walking towards them, pulling the gun out of his pocket to point at them.  The cops open fire, fearing it was real.  No trigger happy about it.  If it had been a real gun he could have killed one of them or both.  The fact we know it wasn't real AFTER THE FACT, changes nothing.  The kid acted stupidly and got shot for it.  The cops acted how they would if that kid was yellow, white, brown, or was an adult.  You don't point a gun at a cop and expect him to do nothing, just it MIGHT not be real.  Personal responsibility.

And yes, they were charged, something that happens to a lot white cops, too.  My point was that something like that could happen to a white kid and the nation wouldn't bat an eye.  That proves my point.  The problem your side seems to have is that you only see things through the prism of hindsight and therefore people should go to jail.  The law doesn't work that way and thank God it doesn't.  A grand jury's job is to actually look at evidence and the definition of what the defendant is charged with and determine if there is enough to charge them on.  If not, it's dropped.  If so, it goes to court.  They don't judge him on mob rule.  Or the feels.  Or hindsight.  And the two recent stories just happened.  Have they even reached a decision, yet?

I think we will just have to agree to disagree here. Just different views on how things have been being handled by cops in general lately.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

thismeintiel said:
NobleTeam360 said:

That's what I've been wondering since last night lol. BLM was protesting peacefully, and somehow i see comments everywhere claiming they should be marked as a terrorist group and other stupid shit. 

Considering many BLM protestors get angry and hostile (even booing politicians and forcing them to apologize) whenever some say ALM, which, yes, includes black lives, it's not hard to conclude that many value black lives over any other.  Saying some of the nastiest things to anyone who question them.  It also doesn't help that in some of these situations they have jumped to conclusions and perpetuate falsehoods about the situation.  "Hands up, don't shoot" comes to mind. 

Of course, I'm sure there are plenty that are part of it who are more even-minded.  It just seems some of the people they send to be spokesmen for them don't come off the best. 

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/problem-saying-all-lives-matter

 

not sure why i even posted that for you... being dismissive and hurtful to the black community seems like your intention.



method114 said:
thismeintiel said:

And I think it is disgusting to demonize cops when you have hindsight on your side.  Would you have felt the same if it turned out to be a real gun?  If you say yes, you are being niave.  If you say no, then there's your answer.  The cops thought it was real.  Maybe you should rewatch the WHOLE video of that incident, again.  How he bullies people with the gun.  The way he holds it ready in both hands as he walks towards the cops that are pulling up.  Kids aren't always the innocent darlings we wish to make them out to be.

EDIT:  Actually, I have to write a small correction.  Tamir didn't actually have the gun out.  Oh no.  He had it in his hoodie pocket.  As the cops are pulling up, (in the enhanced version) you can clearly see him reaching into the pocket to pull the gun out, that is when they fire.  So, the cops were told the kid had a gun, threatening people, then when they pull up he's walking towards them pulling the gun out of his pocket.  And you people with hindsight on your side like to say he was "only playing" and they should have known it was a toy.  I say this nicely, go pound sand.  That kid knew exactly what he was doing.  He was playing gangsta and got shot doing it.

The fact that you can sit here and say "the kid knew exactly what he was doing" is what's wrong with you. He was 12 years old. He didn't know exactly what he was doing cause if he did he would know it's stupid to pull the gun out infront of cops. I'm not saying the cops should have known. I'm saying they should have given him the benefit of the doubt. Even my CHL instructor told me the same thing and he was disgusted by the shooting.

I don't know what the age limit should be for giving the benefit of the doubt is but 12 is certainly in that age range. At the end of the day it's obvious we wont agree. To you the cops valuing their own lives over the childs is perfectly fine. IMO  they shouldn't have and if it was me I guarantee you I wouldn't have pulled the trigger. The thought of having killed a child without knowing whether it was a gun or not is much worse then death IMO. I'd rather just be dead than kill some innocent kid.

I think the problem is you are seeing this kid as innocent, whereas I do not.  Children that age and younger can, and have, commited horrible crimes.  Now, if he had actually been playing and not intentually bullying passersby, threatening them with a gun, I know I'd feel different.  But this kid felt that having a good time meant bullying random strangers and pointing a gun at cops. He wasn't so innocent.

Botton line, we all have personal responsibility.  And I can say for certain that at age 12 I knew damn better than to act like I was going to shoot a cop that was obviously there for me.  Especially, concelling my weapon so there was 100% no way they could tell it was fake.

But, you are right.  We will have to agree to disagree.  I have to get going, now, anyway.  Appointments to keep.  Still, wish you all the best.



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I'll come clean: I'm not the biggest fan of cops overall; my skin crawls everytime one walks past me. But these officers had nothing to do with what happened on Missouri (I believe) and Louisiana, and killing them won't change a thing for the better. I feel pretty sad for the families of the murdered cops because they most likely were good cops.



Mr_No said:
I'll come clean: I'm not the biggest fan of cops overall; my skin crawls everytime one walks past me. But these officers had nothing to do with what happened on Missouri (I believe) and Louisiana, and killing them won't change a thing for the better. I feel pretty sad for the families of the murdered cops because they most likely were good cops.

Close Minnesota, two states north.



AlfredoTurkey said:
hershel_layton said:

I guess that's America.

Nope. More like "I guess that's stupidity". This stuff is global and not confined to the US in anyway.

I understand that America is not the only country with such issues. It was more of a sarcastic statement.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

TheBlackNaruto said:
thismeintiel said:

Yep, and those young black males were doing nothing wrong or stupid at the time. /s

Soooooooo because they were doing something wrong/stupid they deserved to get shot by a careless cop? Like the 12yr old black kid who was shot in the park because he was playing with a toy? Or the one who was just shot in a traffic stop because he was reaching for his license? You mean doing stuff wrong/stupid like that? :-/?

No, huge difference.

 

The kid with the fake gun didn't deserve to die at all. While it could've been prevented if it had the orange tip, the cops didn't deserve to be brutal like that.

 


As for this case, they are actually committing a crime. They have shot innocent police officers not related to any of the cop killings from the past several years.

 

This is a case where, yes, the black people are at fault. You can't go around shooting people who are innocent. The cops who have killed innocent blacks throughout the years aren't on the right. However, these shooters aren't as well. Stupid mistake that won't get anywhere closer to improvements in the police department



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

Soooooooo because they were doing something wrong/stupid they deserved to get shot by a careless cop? Like the 12yr old black kid who was shot in the park because he was playing with a toy? Or the one who was just shot in a traffic stop because he was reaching for his license? You mean doing stuff wrong/stupid like that? :-/?

No, huge difference.

 

The kid with the fake gun didn't deserve to die at all. While it could've been prevented if it had the orange tip, the cops didn't deserve to be brutal like that.

 


As for this case, they are actually committing a crime. They have shot innocent police officers not related to any of the cop killings from the past several years.

 

This is a case where, yes, the black people are at fault. You can't go around shooting people who are innocent. The cops who have killed innocent blacks throughout the years aren't on the right. However, these shooters aren't as well. Stupid mistake that won't get anywhere closer to improvements in the police department

Oh I agree the person who did the shooting at the innocent officers is 100% at fault but the reply I made was in reference to him making it seem like the people that got shot by the cops seemingly earned it and were always doing something that warranted it. But I agree in THIS case yes the shooting of the officers was insane and I hate seeing death like this.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23