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Forums - General Discussion - FBI's decision on hillary Clinton is a joke

herzausstein said:
I dont understand how they don't see intent...

She set up her own email server for her to use. She was secretary of state for goodness sakes. She would've known that much of what she would talk about would at the very least be considered sensitive information if not classified. Things that would come up like the location of agents and names of field agents under her jurisdiction. Beyond that the statute does not require intent it just requires gross negligence which comey pretty much said she did. So he punked out because she is running for president and she is married to a former president and they have powerful connections. At the VERY least what she did should result in stripping her of her security clearance and her ability to ever handle classified information again (which would result in her not being able to be potus). I personally think she should be in jail. As someone that has had to undergo background checks and training on handling classified info what she did goes against everything you are taught.

Gross negligence does require a level of intent, however, or at least awareness. Gross negligence is being informed that something bad could happen and then just not doing anything about it. Imagine something along the lines of a parent knowing that their kids are out playing in the street and just ignoring it. They can't be charged for murder, or manslaughter if their kids get run over, but they were aware that something dangerous could happen and failed to act. That is gross negligence, despite whatever Rudy Giuliani may want to redefine the term as. Convicting her of gross negligence would require proof that she knew that classified emails were being stored on private servers and did nothing about it, and that's ultimately where the hiccup was.



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MTZehvor said:

The magnitude of the mistake is the reason why. People shouldn't lose votes simply for any silly mistake, but if you screw up badly enough, then it becomes very reasonable to doubt that person's ability to be responsible with far more at stake. Clinton was irresponsible in following basic security protocals and put US National Security at risk. If she's been shown to be careless with important in the positions she's held (and careless enough to the point where the FBI director basically said she would have been fired if not for her prestige), then there's reason to suspect that she will be careless as president.

I don't know how true that is, exactly.  Not only can I see Trump doing the same thing (he doesn't even know what he said two days prior) but I can see many of the politicians in Washington doing the same thing.  Old people and technology don't mix all that well.  

I don't care much for her, and I certainly don't think this is a good thing, but damn if I don't want more oversight for all these technologically challenged individuals who run the world.  Why didn't someone say, "hey, stop doing that," during the time she was in office?  That doesn't make any sense.

The truth is, though, stuff like this wouldn't happen to someone as President.  There is too much security, too many people who actually know what they're doing who are the ones handling things.  That's why we had a President who was basically senile and nothing much came of it.  

Just to be clear, I'm not voting for either of them.  Also, she wouldn't have been fired if she were still in office.  This has happened before, actually, with a US Ambassador.  They faced sanctions but were allowed to resign instead.  At the level of office she held, that's the very worse she would have faced but I doubt it would have gone that far.  



They only let it slide because its either her or Trump.



The corruption is strong with this one....



pokoko said:
MTZehvor said:

The magnitude of the mistake is the reason why. People shouldn't lose votes simply for any silly mistake, but if you screw up badly enough, then it becomes very reasonable to doubt that person's ability to be responsible with far more at stake. Clinton was irresponsible in following basic security protocals and put US National Security at risk. If she's been shown to be careless with important in the positions she's held (and careless enough to the point where the FBI director basically said she would have been fired if not for her prestige), then there's reason to suspect that she will be careless as president.

I don't know how true that is, exactly.  Not only can I see Trump doing the same thing (he doesn't even know what he said two days prior) but I can see many of the politicians in Washington doing the same thing.  Old people and technology don't mix all that well.  

I don't care much for her, and I certainly don't think this is a good thing, but damn if I don't want more oversight for all these technologically challenged individuals who run the world.  Why didn't someone say, "hey, stop doing that," during the time she was in office?  That doesn't make any sense.

The truth is, though, stuff like this wouldn't happen to someone as President.  There is too much security, too many people who actually know what they're doing who are the ones handling things.  That's why we had a President who was basically senile and nothing much came of it.  

Just to be clear, I'm not voting for either of them.  Also, she wouldn't have been fired if she were still in office.  This has happened before, actually, with a US Ambassador.  They faced sanctions but were allowed to resign instead.  At the level of office she held, that's the very worse she would have faced but I doubt it would have gone that far.  

As for the why no one told her to stop, probably because no one knew. I would imagine the FBI didn't routinely make a habit of checking in on the secretary of state's inbox.

And as for president, perhaps there wouldn't be an email-esque mistake, but there could quite easily be mistakes of greater caliber, especially when no one is bothering to check the president's actions and make sure they're grounded in reality. I'm assuming George W. Bush is the senile president you're referring to, and if that's the case, a whole lot came from his tenure. ISIS's origins can be traced back to the fame/notoriety Bush and Colin Powell gave to Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi during the invasion of Iraq, which allowed Zarqawi's group, AQI, to expand rapidly and split off from Al-Qaeda. Eventually it would become ISIS during the beginning of the Syrian Civil War.

Even if the president you're referring to isn't Bush, I think the example goes a long way towards showing that a president can still do quite a bit of damage even with others supposedly checking their actions for mistakes. The question is do people make serious mistakes in their work. If the answer is yes, then I'm at the very least skeptical about their ability to stop making mistakes later on.



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BlkPaladin said:
Johnw1104 said:

lol her husband was President and got to spend an hour eating lunch with the Attorney General and now she's being chauffered around in Air Force One by Obama... she has a powerful friend or two.

One of the funny things about this is one of the charges Bill Clinton was impeached for was mishandling of Top Secret docutments, but in this case he left a "for you eyes only" file out in the public part of the white house. And another thing he wasn't impeached by the Repulicans, while they brought the charges against him, it was Democratic ran Senate that impeached him. In impeachment hearings the house acts as the proscutor and the senate as the judge who passes the final judgment. At the end they impeached him on most of the charges that were brought against, they decided on not removing him because it would cost a lot of money to put a new president in who whould be replaced that following year.

 

Someone mentioned Nixon. He choose to leave office rater then have the country spend millions of dollars impeaching him.

needs a Link , because I couldn't find any information about that so called impeachment , the only one is the monica lewinsky impeachment.

I'm 100% sure the last thing on Nixon's mind was saving the taxpayers money.  



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hershel_layton said:

https://www.rt.com/usa/349600-clinton-treatment-fbi-emails/

 

Now look, I don't want to jump to any assumptions(or name calling). However, after reading this article, this is what I learned:

 

Hillary clinton mishandled government secrets. However, even though others were severely punished for doing the same, she ONLY GETS A WARNING.

 

Absolutely ridiculous. This is the person who wants to be the president of the United States. This only makes my hatred for Clinton grow even more. 

 

Imagine if Edward Snowden or Assange did this. They'd probably be killed and never seen ever again. 

 

To think that someone who is considered "extremely careless" by the FBI may run the most powerful country in the world...it's frightening. Truly frightening. 

 

"The similarity of such case to the Clinton controversy doesn’t seem to be lost on Comey. The FBI chief strongly stated that others who behaved as Clinton did wouldn’t necessarily get off the hook like the former secretary did."

 

The FBI can go fuck off for all I care. Why is this not talked about by the media? They're literally saying that you can be given a penalty for the same crime Hillary got off the hook for. Where's CNN to talk about this? 

 

Hillary talks shit about Edward Snowden exposing government secrets. Only approves it for when she benefits. What a hypocrite. Shows the person she truly is

So, you want Donald Trump in charge of nuclear weapons?

Hillary Clinton is the US's only chance from stopping that right now. And I am sure the FBI knows more than some angry forum poster who has zero knowledge or experience in with the law. You didn't even know that not only did Assange and Snowden mishandle government info, but they leaked TONS of it, and neither one of them is dead.

But regardless, as long as you don't have some insane demigog maniac in charge of nukes, then that is all that matters. Otherwise, it's irrelevant who is president of the United States, it doesn't effect anything important.



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Jumpin said:
hershel_layton said:

https://www.rt.com/usa/349600-clinton-treatment-fbi-emails/

 

Now look, I don't want to jump to any assumptions(or name calling). However, after reading this article, this is what I learned:

 

Hillary clinton mishandled government secrets. However, even though others were severely punished for doing the same, she ONLY GETS A WARNING.

 

Absolutely ridiculous. This is the person who wants to be the president of the United States. This only makes my hatred for Clinton grow even more. 

 

Imagine if Edward Snowden or Assange did this. They'd probably be killed and never seen ever again. 

 

To think that someone who is considered "extremely careless" by the FBI may run the most powerful country in the world...it's frightening. Truly frightening. 

 

"The similarity of such case to the Clinton controversy doesn’t seem to be lost on Comey. The FBI chief strongly stated that others who behaved as Clinton did wouldn’t necessarily get off the hook like the former secretary did."

 

The FBI can go fuck off for all I care. Why is this not talked about by the media? They're literally saying that you can be given a penalty for the same crime Hillary got off the hook for. Where's CNN to talk about this? 

 

Hillary talks shit about Edward Snowden exposing government secrets. Only approves it for when she benefits. What a hypocrite. Shows the person she truly is

So, you want Donald Trump in charge of nuclear weapons?

Hillary Clinton is the US's only chance from stopping that right now. And I am sure the FBI knows more than some angry forum poster who has zero knowledge or experience in with the law. You didn't even know that not only did Assange and Snowden mishandle government info, but they leaked TONS of it, and neither one of them is dead.

Julian Assange didn't "leak" anything from the US government. He's the guy that runs Wiki Leaks, for crying out loud. They publish leaks, they don't steal classified information. The government wouldn't let him handle anything.



Dude on reddit said it better than I ever could:

u/KineticEngineer:

At least according to Comey's statement, the security culture at State was shit. I 100% believe this because (a) the inspector general position went unfilled for years, and (b) State IT, like other federal IT, is underfunded and glacially slow to change. HRC is the poster girl for a much bigger problem.

Also, I'm not surprised this didn't rise to the level of a criminal act. Laws about technology tend to be bad fits and out of date. The people making those laws tend to be about HRC's age and social category. I've told friends for months that if this isn't illegal, it should be, but it's so arcane that only top experts can say what is currently legal and what isn't. And it appears to be legal, despite being the worst publicly advertised IT security breach in US government history.

The thing is, there are different standards for computer security than there are for the legal system. In law, innocent until proven guilty, and in this specific situation, intent matters a lot. For computer security, it isn't "Innocent until Proven Guilty"; it's "The Enemy Knows the System." The hilarious irony here is that if the server had just been slightly more secure, there might have been evidence of intrusion. Cooper's complete incompetence meant that invading actors left no trace, so Comey can only say that hacking was "possible," even though we all know it happened again and again.

Honestly, I hope Comey testifies in front of Congress. It's Congress that blocked appointment of an Inspector General, and it's ongoing budget turf wars that leave IT budgets looking like crap.

Not to excuse anything HRC did. But this problem goes well beyond her, and we need to see the forest, not just the tree in the pantsuit.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



Dyllyo said:
Look, the GOP has already wasted several years, numerous investigations and $8 million in tax payers dollars on this crap. Isn't it POSSIBLE that she is innocent? In fact, that's all the GOP seems to do: obstruct government.

You heard the GOP is pissed at the FBI, right? They want to launch ANOTHER investigation. It's pointless, it's a waste of time. They're JUST doing it because she's a democrat. Bush deleted 5 million emails, killed 5,000 Americans, and 112,000 Iraqi civilians...but no one gives a shit about that apparently.

Wasn't the last investigation made up of 5 GOP/4 Dems? Obviously Republicans are trying to get Hillary, but to act as if it's just a giant witch hunt is hilarious. She's guilty, but the FBI isn't charging her because she didn't mean to break the law several times.



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