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Forums - Sony Discussion - Digital Foundry - Several sources indicate Neo will launch this year

SvennoJ on 20 June 2016
Azzanation said:

Its not about power. XB1s will be the cheapest 4k player on the market which will appeal to many when buying TVs etc. The Neo will be a more expensive device. For none gamers the X1s is heaps more attractive and will most likely dominate thst area. The Scopio will be its own thing since it will not only out power the Neo but will possibly be the leading 4k machine when it comes to quality. 

Your looking at it as a gamers view. Im looking at it on a wider scale. One of the key reasons the PS3 managed to sell well was due to its Blu Ray player which was affordable to many new buyers for Full HD TVs. Many none gamers brought a PS3 for there entertainment system. I see the X1s doing the same thing.

4k is a new market. I also dont think the Neo or the Scorpio will sell heaps. 

There will probably be some people that would consider an X1s as a 4K player (I'm one of them but will wait until the HDR dust settles at least)
Yet your last statement is likely most accurate. The situation is vastly different now than with the ps3. 4K blu-rays are still few and very expensive without a format war driving the price down. While 4k tvs all come with the ability to stream 4K built in. Even this die hard fan of physical media with a huge blu-ray collection must admit that 4K blu-ray is going to be the next Laserdisc :/ By this time last format change I already had a bunch of hd-dvds and blu-rays laying around waiting to buy a player. This time only The revenant sits in my Amazon shopping cart, still $35, not really worth it.

Anyway if it's 300 vs 400 between X1s and Neo, I don't think that that new 4k tv buyer is going to save that extra 100 when the Neo can show much better visuals at 4K. $100 extra for 3x faster machine, that's a good deal. Not that it matters, it's not in MS' interest to sell 4K blu-ray players. It's basically a lost sale like a secondary console. No extra software or subscription income. It's not that interesting for Sony either, no format war to win this time. Plus it seems they rather have you stream their 4K content, Sony still hasn't bothered to release a standalone player.



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Zekkyou on 20 June 2016
Azzanation said:
Zekkyou said:

I'm a bit confused. So what you're saying is, the Neo's primary competition will be a system several times weaker than it (based on current spec expectations), but the Neo won't be able to compete with the Scoprio, a system with a 30%~ (maybe 40%~) advantage? You also make a point of mentioning that the X1S's cheaper price will give it an advantage, but don't make a similar comment for the Neo vs Scorpio. Were the PS3 and 360 not competing because the latter launch earlier? Does the PS4's current hardware advantage mean the X1's not competing with it?

I'm sure you can see why this is all a bit inconsistent, thus understand my confusion.

Its not about power. XB1s will be the cheapest 4k player on the market which will appeal to many when buying TVs etc. The Neo will be a more expensive device. For none gamers the X1s is heaps more attractive and will most likely dominate thst area. The Scopio will be its own thing since it will not only out power the Neo but will possibly be the leading 4k machine when it comes to quality. 

Your looking at it as a gamers view. Im looking at it on a wider scale. One of the key reasons the PS3 managed to sell well was due to its Blu Ray player which was affordable to many new buyers for Full HD TVs. Many none gamers brought a PS3 for there entertainment system. I see the X1s doing the same thing.

4k is a new market. I also dont think the Neo or the Scorpio will sell heaps. 

The bolded doesn't really clear things up for me; you're still making partially reversed arguments for the Neo vs X1S, and the Neo vs Scorpio. You say it's not about power, and yet you state the Scorpio being stronger (it currently seems to be to a similar degree as the PS4 is stronger than the X1) as a reason why it'll be its "own thing". You also acknowledge that the X1S's cheaper price will help it, yet don't seem to think it'll matter for the Neo vs Scorpio (i'm basing that assumption on you still not mentioning it even after i have).

I agree the X1S will be more attractive for none-gamers (though with how small the physical 4k media market is right now, i'd say both the standard PS4 and X1 have the real advantage here), but that doesn't address the above. You seem to think price and power are only an advantage for one side of the battle. That obviously doesn't make any sense, so i was hoping for clarification. 



Azzanation on 20 June 2016
Zekkyou said:
Azzanation said:

Its not about power. XB1s will be the cheapest 4k player on the market which will appeal to many when buying TVs etc. The Neo will be a more expensive device. For none gamers the X1s is heaps more attractive and will most likely dominate thst area. The Scopio will be its own thing since it will not only out power the Neo but will possibly be the leading 4k machine when it comes to quality. 

Your looking at it as a gamers view. Im looking at it on a wider scale. One of the key reasons the PS3 managed to sell well was due to its Blu Ray player which was affordable to many new buyers for Full HD TVs. Many none gamers brought a PS3 for there entertainment system. I see the X1s doing the same thing.

4k is a new market. I also dont think the Neo or the Scorpio will sell heaps. 

The bolded doesn't really clear things up for me; you're still making partially reversed arguments for the Neo vs X1S, and the Neo vs Scorpio. You say it's not about power, and yet you state the Scorpio being stronger (it currently seems to be to a similar degree as the PS4 is stronger than the X1) as a reason why it'll be its "own thing". You also acknowledge that the X1S's cheaper price will help it, yet don't seem to think it'll matter for the Neo vs Scorpio (i'm basing that assumption on you still not mentioning it even after i have).

I agree the X1S will be more attractive for none-gamers (though with how small the physical 4k media market is right now, i'd say both the standard PS4 and X1 have the real advantage here), but that doesn't address the above. You seem to think price and power are only an advantage for one side of the battle. That obviously doesn't make any sense, so i was hoping for clarification. 

With the Xbox Slim coming out in a couple months, it’s going to overshadow both Neo and Scorpio on the price. The 4k market is new and the general public will find the slim the better choice since you can still play current gen games on it plus have a affordable 4k player for their 4k TVs. The Scorpio will be released with no counterpart in 2017 since by then the Neo will be well over a year old (rumoured). Sony will have to release a Neo V2 to compete with it or the Neo will fall short on price with the X1 Slim and won’t be the best premium console on the market due to Scorpio.

Either way I don’t see the Neo or the Scorpio selling well due to the Slim with its general approach to the market and offering the budget basement system. The PS4 can’t play 4k movies which gives a big advantage to the X1S and the Neo will be more expensive then the Slim which puts it in an awkward middle ground. The Scorpio will most likely release with no competition since I can’t see Sony releasing a V2 Neo next year.

Don’t get me wrong here. The Scorpio won’t sell well even with no competition coming out in 2017. The Neo has a fight on its hands with the X1S because there both aiming to win over the 4k buyers. And I am not talking about gaming only, none gamers will look at both the Neo and Slim however the Slim has a major advantage and that will be the price point. The Slim reminds me of the PS2 when the price dropped. The PS2 was so cheap it continued to sell due to it being an affordable DvD player for many homes. Why buy a standalone DvD player when you can get a PS2 with one built it for a super cheap price... Same goes for the Slim, why buy a standalone 4k player when the Slim has one built in at a very cheap price and you get a modern console with all the future apps.

Budget Basement systems will also sell better then Premium model systems, especially when they both do the same things.



Zekkyou on 20 June 2016
Azzanation said:

With the Xbox Slim coming out in a couple months, it’s going to overshadow both Neo and Scorpio on the price. The 4k market is new and the general public will find the slim the better choice since you can still play current gen games on it plus have a affordable 4k player for their 4k TVs. The Scorpio will be released with no counterpart in 2017 since by then the Neo will be well over a year old (rumoured). Sony will have to release a Neo V2 to compete with it or the Neo will fall short on price with the X1 Slim and won’t be the best premium console on the market due to Scorpio.

Either way I don’t see the Neo or the Scorpio selling well due to the Slim with its general approach to the market and offering the budget basement system. The PS4 can’t play 4k movies which gives a big advantage to the X1S and the Neo will be more expensive then the Slim which puts it in an awkward middle ground. The Scorpio will most likely release with no competition since I can’t see Sony releasing a V2 Neo next year.

Don’t get me wrong here. The Scorpio won’t sell well even with no competition coming out in 2017. The Neo has a fight on its hands with the X1S because there both aiming to win over the 4k buyers. And I am not talking about gaming only, none gamers will look at both the Neo and Slim however the Slim has a major advantage and that will be the price point. The Slim reminds me of the PS2 when the price dropped. The PS2 was so cheap it continued to sell due to it being an affordable DvD player for many homes. Why buy a standalone DvD player when you can get a PS2 with one built it for a super cheap price... Same goes for the Slim, why buy a standalone 4k player when the Slim has one built in at a very cheap price and you get a modern console with all the future apps.

Budget Basement systems will also sell better then Premium model systems, especially when they both do the same things.

So the Scorpio has no competition, but you don't think it'll do well because the X1S will be a better general option. It'll be having it sales taken away by something... but it's not competing for sales against that something...? The Neo is though if it launches earlier, other factors be damned, but those factors do count towards the Scorpio being separate...?

I think it'd be best if we just let this discussion rest, because this is making less sense to me with every exchange ^^;



Azzanation on 20 June 2016
Zekkyou said:
Azzanation said:

With the Xbox Slim coming out in a couple months, it’s going to overshadow both Neo and Scorpio on the price. The 4k market is new and the general public will find the slim the better choice since you can still play current gen games on it plus have a affordable 4k player for their 4k TVs. The Scorpio will be released with no counterpart in 2017 since by then the Neo will be well over a year old (rumoured). Sony will have to release a Neo V2 to compete with it or the Neo will fall short on price with the X1 Slim and won’t be the best premium console on the market due to Scorpio.

Either way I don’t see the Neo or the Scorpio selling well due to the Slim with its general approach to the market and offering the budget basement system. The PS4 can’t play 4k movies which gives a big advantage to the X1S and the Neo will be more expensive then the Slim which puts it in an awkward middle ground. The Scorpio will most likely release with no competition since I can’t see Sony releasing a V2 Neo next year.

Don’t get me wrong here. The Scorpio won’t sell well even with no competition coming out in 2017. The Neo has a fight on its hands with the X1S because there both aiming to win over the 4k buyers. And I am not talking about gaming only, none gamers will look at both the Neo and Slim however the Slim has a major advantage and that will be the price point. The Slim reminds me of the PS2 when the price dropped. The PS2 was so cheap it continued to sell due to it being an affordable DvD player for many homes. Why buy a standalone DvD player when you can get a PS2 with one built it for a super cheap price... Same goes for the Slim, why buy a standalone 4k player when the Slim has one built in at a very cheap price and you get a modern console with all the future apps.

Budget Basement systems will also sell better then Premium model systems, especially when they both do the same things.

So the Scorpio has no competition, but you don't think it'll do well because the X1S will be a better general option. It'll be having it sales taken away by something... but it's not competing for sales against that something...? The Neo is though if it launches earlier, other factors be damned, but those factors do count towards the Scorpio being separate...?

I think it'd be best if we just let this discussion rest, because this is making less sense to me with every exchange ^^;

Makes perfect sense to me. X1S will dominate the sales race for 4k players while Neo and Scorpio will sell less due to its price. Its like selling a Ferrari to the genral audience when a VW Polo is the modern go to car. Power isnt everything and definitly isnt a selling point for the general public.

No Worried will rest this convo.



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drkohler on 20 June 2016
Azzanation said:
...long theory deleted why X1S will win the 4k crowd

Did it ever occur to you that Sony/Whoever can at any time simply throw standalone 4k BR players onto the market that will be cheaper than an X1 Slim (simply because they don't carry the whole "games hardware baggage")? I don't think the idea that "4k tv owners must also be gamers hence they buy a X1S" is the reality.



JRPGfan on 20 June 2016

Do people really want Ultra HD 4k blu ray that much?



Azzanation on 20 June 2016
drkohler said:
Azzanation said:
...long theory deleted why X1S will win the 4k crowd

Did it ever occur to you that Sony/Whoever can at any time simply throw standalone 4k BR players onto the market that will be cheaper than an X1 Slim (simply because they don't carry the whole "games hardware baggage")? I don't think the idea that "4k tv owners must also be gamers hence they buy a X1S" is the reality.

My guess is that Sony will most likely release a 4k player in the standalone PS4 because they need something to compete with the Slims budget player, however i see them focusing more on the Neo since thats where the VR and future lies. Since Scorpio is a long way off i see MS riding the 4k wave with the X1S for some time.



thismeintiel on 20 June 2016
twintail said:
I dont see Sony releasing Neo anywhere near VR tbqh

February seems like a good release date to me (even January after PSX). Gives one expensive hardware some breathing room and gets a new hardware refresh out before NX.

But whatever I guess... depends on their expectations for both Neo and VR>

I'm sure there are plenty of people who aren't interested very much in VR at $399, but greatly interested in an upgraded PS4 for $399.  I'm one of them.  I'd rather get the Neo now, especially if it'll upscale all my games to 4K, and wait til the PSVR is $199-$249.



 

Train wreck on 20 June 2016

Is this one of those globally in the US situations? I do not see a scenario where in places outside the US and UK (where if I had to guess ~80% of the XB1 sales comes from) the xbox brand will ever matter, so no matter what they come out with, Sony, with whatever hardware they have available, will always sell more