LurkerJ said:
Are we really gonna prented that Doomsday is the only and the main villain in BvS just so that you can make a point? Not to mention, you negated the point you were trying to make by acknowledging the fact that Doomsday is a monster. Come on! Lex Luthor made BvS for me. What a stellar perfomance, the writers outdid themsevles here. It's a shame other characters were shoehorned, and I am mainly complaining about Wonder Woman here.The Flash and Aquaman were briefly mentioned, they weren't forced into the major plot like Wonder Woman was. They didn't receive much screentime. The producers only let us know that they exist somewhere on earth. I wish Wonder Woman was brought up in a similar fashion. Instead, she was forced into a movie she had no business being in. They should've let Bruce Wayne browse through Lex's data and view these laughabe short clips with one extra clip for WW. It wouldn't have made the clips less laughable, but at least it would've spared us the messy inclusion of WW in Lex's party and the subsequent events which include WW returning the harddrive to Bruce Wayne politely. What a lady lol People should complain more about Wonder Woman and less about Flash and Aqua. Every minute dedicated to her was diluting a great script and possibly, a great movie. Flash and the others clips last for 30 seconds? big deal.
You say the flaws are much more severe on the other side, yet, Spider-man was definitely more forced, and to a lesser degree, Ant-man. Zemo is definitely the weakest excuse of a villain I've ever seen. Although, I agree Cap and Iron Man tried harder to resolve their issues than B&S did. But as you can see, similar problems sometimes were more of an issue in CW. One more thing, people saying BvS had no sense of humor couldn't be more wrong, I much prefer the sense humor delivered to us by Perry White than the average sitcomish humor that Marvel movies oozes with. Just because you prefer the latter, it doesn't make the former non-existent. Finally, the line "no one stays good in this world" is one of the many memorable lines in BvS. It's a truth and it's one that's relatable to the real world. You hated it, I loved it. |
1. No, we're not going to pretend that Doomsday is the only villain. But, if we're going to focus on secondary antagonists, Doomsday and Zemo are the best comparison. If the complaint is about Zemo not having a motivation, then we should talk about how Doomsday literally has no motivation. Yeah he's a monster, but it was Snyder's decision to make the final conflict revolve around a pointless generic monster.
The focus of the movie is the conflict between Iron Man and Captain America. Iron Man, not Zemo, is the antagonist of this movie, and his motivations are incredibly clearly defined. Having Zemo have a really strong presence and acting as a serious threat in and of himself would do nothing but shift the focus. We could have had an "oh it's just a misunderstanding, let's team up to fight the real bad guy", which they teased, but that would have been a disappointing conclusion. If the movie wound up with them following up on the red herring and having Cap and Iron Man team up to fight Zemo and his Winter Soldiers, I would have been incredibly disappointed. Zemo did what he was supposed to do, and if you stop thinking of super hero movies in a strict "heroes fight villains" capacity, then there's really no issue.
2. Going to have to agree to disagree on Jesse Eisenberg. I really wasn't into the cooky portrayal. In addition to it not being anything like Lex is in the comics, it was also just off putting. Just didn't feel organic to me. Kind of feel like they wanted a Jokerish vibe, but this is Lex Luthor...
3. My thing with the Flash and Aquaman is... why even bother? At least Wonder Woman has some role in the plot. Flash and Aquaman literally serve no purpose aside from saying "hey remember Justice League is coming out". That makes them feel more shoehorned. Although, you are right that Wonder Woman being scrapped would have made for a better movie.
4. Ant-man wasn't really forced. Him and Falcon met in Ant-man, and at the end of the movie we knew Falcon was looking for him. It's pretty reasonable for Falcon to have found out about what Scott actually did, I'm sure the major explosions at a major weapons facility gets on the Avengers radar, and it made sense they'd be looking for people to help them. Spider-man was more forced than Ant-man but the explanation for him sort of holds up. At any rate, the main plotline of Civil War was developed enough that they were able to take about 7 or 8 minutes to introduce a new character
The issue with Batman v Superman including Wonder-Woman is not necessarily Wonder Woman herself, but what she brings and takes away from the movie. In Civil War, pretty much all of the characters are defined. The only ones who need to be introduced are Zemo, Panther, and Spider-man. We don't need time to establish who Iron Man or War Machine or Falcon are. In contrast, we hardly know anyone in Batman v Superman. We know Lois and Superman, but even they aren't that well defined yet. We need to get to know Batman, Lex, Wonder Woman, Doomsday, and Alfred, among others.
Marvel wants to introduce Spider-man to build hype for his movie. Shoehorned? Perhaps, but since we have about a dozen movies worth of exposition they have time to indulge. Batman v Superman is still trying to establish the world and the characters. DC is trying to do what Marvel is doing with their twelfth movie in their second movie.
5. "No one stays good in this world" is just a less interesting way of saying "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" from a much better film. The big difference is that line was delivered by Two-face, a character who is marked by his fall from grace and moral ambiguity.
In this movie the line is delivered by Super-man. The character who has always represented nobility and unflinching morality. He's also the character with A BIG FUCKING S ON HIS CHEST THAT IS SUPPOSED TO SYMBOLIZE HOPE! He's not supposed to be the character that tells shit like it is, he's the character that is supposed to inspire humanity to greater heights. Don't tell me a character is supposed to represent hope and then have him act as the absolute antithesis of hope. It's like if in the next Spider-man movie he says "with great power comes money and bitches. Fuck responsibility."
Also, don't tell me that the movie I'm about to go see is about Batman and Superman and then show me versions of each character that are hardly recognizable. People go to see the movies cause they love Superman. When you take out all the shit that makes Superman super, then they're going to be disappointed. If you want to make a movie about a god-like character with a skewed moral compass, fine. Just don't call that character Superman.
6. Let's just grant that Spider-man is more shoehorned and Zemo is a weak villain. So, two issues where the flaws were bigger in Civil War. That's really nothing compared to Batman v Superman's horrible editing, dream sequences in dream sequences, the main conflict starting for a stupid reason and ending for a stupider one, complete disregard for the source material, the fact that not only does Clark not make any real effort to talk Batman out of the fight but does not have anything even approaching an actual conversation in the two + hour movies, cramming a second storyline into the last fraction of the movie just so they can have a Superman dies moment (just give WonderWoman the spear. She's a better fighter, is outclassing Doomsday, and can use it better since it doesn't weaken her), and so on.
The issues are simply way bigger in Batman v Superman.
