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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Star Fox Zero - Let's Rock & Roll Trailer / Release Date April 22nd 2016

Nem said:
curl-6 said:

SFZ had obvious problems when shown at E3, and was liberally criticized. Then it was delayed. Later it resurfaced with significant changes made. 

The logical explanation is that a harsher than expected reception both set back development and altered its trajectory.

That still sounds like an expectations issue and not development issues. It sure did, but again we are not talking about that delay. we are talking about the rumor that said that the games was going to be delayed again due to development troubles. Development troubles and further polish in the graphics are very different things aswell.

Like No man's sky obviously has development troubles because its been delayed for what 2 years now? But Starfox had one delay wich was said to polish the game aka to adress those graphics complaints. Theres no rumors at this point, everything is pretty clear.

Its the rumor that came a couple of weeks ago that said that there were development troubles with the multiplayer and the game was gonna get delayed that have been totally and utterly debunked. I don't think theres any debating that.

IIRC, the rumour from a week or so back didn't say that it was definitely going to be delayed, but that another delay was being considered. So we really can't debunk or confirm that based on what we know now.



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mZuzek said:
Cream147 said:
@Nem - Star Fox has had two delays, first from September to December, then December to April. Just saying.

No. Star Fox was never slated for September. It was slated for "2015", then "Holiday 2015", then November 20th, 2015. Up to that point, nothing constitutes as a delay.

Then, it was delayed, being slated for "Q1 2016", and after that they finally settled on April 22nd, 2016, which has ever since been the release date and it's now pretty much confirmed to be the definitive one. Going from "Q1" to April without officially stating a delay is what I would call a "soft delay", but regardless, it wasn't a big thing, since there was never a confirmed date within Q1 and April is still pretty close.

Yeah, I take it back, I can't find any evidence that it had a release date for September, must be my faulty memory. It was definitely implied to have an earlier release than it's eventual November 20th (again, not December, more bad memory) date which was then delayed in the manner you said.



curl-6 said:

 I actually meant the original Metroid Prime on Gamecube.

It has an incredibly difficult production; draconian work conditions, 80-100 hour work weeks, embezzlement of funds, key staff being kicked out/leaving and being replaced willy nilly, major layoffs...

It's a wonder it even got finished, and a miracle it turned out as great as it did.

curl-6 said:

Yeah, it's hard to believe looking at the final product, (which is one of the best games ever made in my opinion) but apparently it's development was a very rocky road.

Nintendo apparently replaced two of Retro's presidents during the production of Prime due to mismanagement.

A lot of those things above in bold  happened before and because Retro was working on 4 other games prior, all of which were not progressing well.

Those games were:

  1. Car Combat game, 
  2. NFL game, 
  3. Action/Adventure game,  
  4. Raven Blade RPG.

They were also poorly managed and unorganized at the time, in part due to an absentee president.  

During Production of Metroid Prime all the other games were cancelled with a core team being formed to work solely on Prime.  The then president and founder Jeff Spangenberg was replaced with all his shares in Retro being bought by Nintendo.  The former Vice President Steve Barcia then became President and remained President until Metroid Prime was finished.  The Prime Team did work hard and grueling days to get Prime finished, but they made an amazing product when they were done.

Some time after Prime was released the president Steve Barcia was again replaced by Michael Kelbaugh on April 11, 2003 who was a NOA guy who had a lot of experience as a manager.  Some people that were at Retro didn't like that they were getting another new president so soon and who was from outside Retro and left when the new president joined, though a lot stayed.  Retro went on to make 2 more Metroid games and 2 Donkey Kong games.



Seeing as Retro seems to be the topic of the day, Retro were originally Iguana Entertainment from Acclaim who were most noted for developing South Park, the Turok games on N64 and Forsaken, hence their knack for first person games.

Acclaim themselves had a troubled end as their employees only found out the company had gone bust when they turned up for work and were locked out the building, what followed was the now notorious chapter of each and every object in the building (well including the building) as well as IPs being auctioned off Ebay style.



foxtail said:

curl-6 said:

 I actually meant the original Metroid Prime on Gamecube.

It has an incredibly difficult production; draconian work conditions, 80-100 hour work weeks, embezzlement of funds, key staff being kicked out/leaving and being replaced willy nilly, major layoffs...

It's a wonder it even got finished, and a miracle it turned out as great as it did.

curl-6 said:

Yeah, it's hard to believe looking at the final product, (which is one of the best games ever made in my opinion) but apparently it's development was a very rocky road.

Nintendo apparently replaced two of Retro's presidents during the production of Prime due to mismanagement.

A lot of those things above in bold  happened before and because Retro was working on 4 other games prior, all of which were not progressing well.

Those games were:

  1. Car Combat game, 
  2. NFL game, 
  3. Action/Adventure game,  
  4. Raven Blade RPG.

They were also poorly managed and unorganized at the time, in part due to an absentee president.  

During Production of Metroid Prime all the other games were cancelled with a core team being formed to work solely on Prime.  The then president and founder Jeff Spangenberg was replaced with all his shares in Retro being bought by Nintendo.  The former Vice President Steve Barcia then became President and remained President until Metroid Prime was finished.  The Prime Team did work hard and grueling days to get Prime finished, but they made an amazing product when they were done.

Some time after Prime was released the president Steve Barcia was again replaced by Michael Kelbaugh on April 11, 2003 who was a NOA guy who had a lot of experience as a manager.  Some people that were at Retro didn't like that they were getting a another new president so soon and who was from outside Retro and left when the new president joined, though a lot stayed.  Retro went on to make 2 more Metroid games and 2 Donkey Kong games.

Yeah, I'm aware of all this, I just forgot that Prime was out by the time Barcia was replaced by Kelbaugh.

I'm pretty sure production was well underway on Prime at the time of the embezzlement, layoffs, etc. Production on Prime began in 2000, and Jeff was kicked out with Nintendo's purchase of Retro in 2002, for instance.

I feel like I'm just dragging the thread off topic here though.



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Dude I am so excited its not even funny.



Own:Nes,Snes,N64,Gamecube,Wii,WiiU,Gameboy Pocket,Gameboy Advance SP,DS,DSi,3DS XL,Sega Genesis,Sega Dreamcast,PS1,PS2,PS3,PSP,PSVita and Xbox 360.

Looking to get: Original Xbox 

A significant portion of my soul died with the first "SMT X FE" footage reveal.

Add me on PSN: afnanthekooltrex 

Check out my YouTube channel:  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzZ6P0251NWOf7WUTsHmw_Q

curl-6 said:

Yeah, I'm aware of all this, I just forgot that Prime was out by the time Barcia was replaced by Kelbaugh.

I'm pretty sure production was well underway on Prime at the time of the embezzlement, layoffs, etc. Production on Prime began in 2000, and Jeff was kicked out with Nintendo's purchase of Retro in 2002, for instance.

I feel like I'm just dragging the thread off topic here though.

I still think the mass of those layoffs were due to the cutting of the 4 game projects and dissolving those 4 extra teams.  The embezzlement happening in the chaos of those changes.

The reports said that Retro had anywhere between 200 employees (source IGN) and 120 employees (source Kelbaugh) at the height of production for those 4 failed game projects.

The last of the 4 failed projects was cut at the end of July (19th) 2001, after which they solely worked on Metroid Prime.  9½ months later (May 2, 2002) Nintendo buys out Retro and replaces Spangenberg and 6½ months after that (November 17, 2002) Metroid Prime is released. 

From the credits for Metroid Prime it seems to show around 41 full time employees directly working on the game at Retro.  That makes me think going from 4 full teams to 1 team accounts for most of the massive drop in staff (200/120 to ~41).  

A lot of people were just let go after projects were terminated.



I wonder when I could pre-order the First Print Edition. It's nowhere to be seen in Amazon :(



foxtail said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah, I'm aware of all this, I just forgot that Prime was out by the time Barcia was replaced by Kelbaugh.

I'm pretty sure production was well underway on Prime at the time of the embezzlement, layoffs, etc. Production on Prime began in 2000, and Jeff was kicked out with Nintendo's purchase of Retro in 2002, for instance.

I feel like I'm just dragging the thread off topic here though.

I still think the mass of those layoffs were due to the cutting of the 4 game projects and dissolving those 4 extra teams.  The embezzlement happening in the chaos of those changes.

The reports said that Retro had anywhere between 200 employees (source IGN) and 120 employees (source Kelbaugh) at the height of production for those 4 failed game projects.

The last of the 4 failed projects was cut at the end of July (19th) 2001, after which they solely worked on Metroid Prime.  9½ months later (May 2, 2002) Nintendo buys out Retro and replaces Spangenberg and 6½ months after that (November 17, 2002) Metroid Prime is released. 

From the credits for Metroid Prime it seems to show around 41 full time employees directly working on the game at Retro.  That make me think going from 4 full teams to 1 team accounts for most of the massive the drop in staff (200/120 to ~41).  

A lot of people were just let go after projects were terminated.

That would account for a lot of the people who left, but there were quite a few who departed Prime midway through. For example, IGN's article credits James Dargie as a source, saying he did modelling, texturing, UI, and animation for the game, but left partway through, and was not credited in the final game as much of his work was redone by others.

Another told IGN that the situation in late 2000 early 2001 was pretty bad:

"Over time I became amazed at the sense of paranoia that permeated everything at Retro. There were security cameras mounted every twenty feet in our halls, and it was common knowledge that they were for keeping track of the employees rather than protecting against anyone breaking in. Apparently the network administrator had to provide a daily sheet detailing the Internet use of every employee." Our source continues, "We were micromanaged on little things like how long we took for lunch. Retro had made a big point of hiring seasoned industry veterans to work there, but there was a major drawback to that: they had a company full of people who knew they could get better jobs elsewhere, and they often did. The common line was that employees were 'not staying at Retro in droves'. It was not uncommon to have new employees leave two or three weeks after starting. It honestly felt a little like living in a communist block country: you kind of didn't know who to trust, who would rat on you, that sort of thing."

http://au.ign.com/articles/2004/12/18/a-retrospective-the-story-of-retro-studios?page=8



curl-6 said:
foxtail said:

I still think the mass of those layoffs were due to the cutting of the 4 game projects and dissolving those 4 extra teams.  The embezzlement happening in the chaos of those changes.

The reports said that Retro had anywhere between 200 employees (source IGN) and 120 employees (source Kelbaugh) at the height of production for those 4 failed game projects.

The last of the 4 failed projects was cut at the end of July (19th) 2001, after which they solely worked on Metroid Prime.  9½ months later (May 2, 2002) Nintendo buys out Retro and replaces Spangenberg and 6½ months after that (November 17, 2002) Metroid Prime is released. 

From the credits for Metroid Prime it seems to show around 41 full time employees directly working on the game at Retro.  That makes me think going from 4 full teams to 1 team accounts for most of the massive drop in staff (200/120 to ~41).  

A lot of people were just let go after projects were terminated.

That would account for a lot of the people who left, but there were quite a few who departed Prime midway through. For example, IGN's article credits James Dargie as a source, saying he did modelling, texturing, UI, and animation for the game, but left partway through, and was not credited in the final game as much of his work was redone by others.

Another told IGN that the situation in late 2000 early 2001 was pretty bad:

"Over time I became amazed at the sense of paranoia that permeated everything at Retro. There were security cameras mounted every twenty feet in our halls, and it was common knowledge that they were for keeping track of the employees rather than protecting against anyone breaking in. Apparently the network administrator had to provide a daily sheet detailing the Internet use of every employee." Our source continues, "We were micromanaged on little things like how long we took for lunch. Retro had made a big point of hiring seasoned industry veterans to work there, but there was a major drawback to that: they had a company full of people who knew they could get better jobs elsewhere, and they often did. The common line was that employees were 'not staying at Retro in droves'. It was not uncommon to have new employees leave two or three weeks after starting. It honestly felt a little like living in a communist block country: you kind of didn't know who to trust, who would rat on you, that sort of thing."

http://au.ign.com/articles/2004/12/18/a-retrospective-the-story-of-retro-studios?page=8

I don't know but that quote makes whoever is saying it seem a little hyperbolic and paranoid, but maybe with some reason.

I think once development hit a certain mark people stopped being paranoid and things went smoother for the solidified team.  

Here's an excerpt from Mike Sneath, who was a senior artist on Metroid Prime and his interview with shinesparkers.net below:

ShineSparkers.net: 

You were working on Metroid Prime from the very start to the very end of development. Tell us about the highs and lows of your time working on the game, and how you and the rest of the team felt during those times?

Mike Sneath:

The hardest part of working on Metroid was all the stuff that was going on with the other projects in the company.  People were being laid off every few months and games were being cut or threaten to be cut.  That was the low for me because it’s very stressful to go work when you’re wondering if you might be the next person to be let go. I think that was the low for alot of people on the team too because it wasn’t until we got to about the half way point in the development when we finally knew that ok we are going to finish this and everything is going to be ok.

When Nintendo told us that we had to show a playable level for E3 from that point on everything got feeling good about working on Metroid.  The reason that was high point for me is because when publisher tells your team they want to show the game you’re working on at E3 then you know they’re happy with the project.