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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony looking at hand tracking for Project Morpheus.

 

How would you feel about hand tracking on Project Morpheus?

Love the idea! A must have for immersive VR! 42 41.58%
 
Cool idea, though not a must have. 30 29.70%
 
Meh, could take it or leave it. 11 10.89%
 
Don't want it, waste of time. 18 17.82%
 
Total:101
Dusk on 21 May 2015
teigaga said:
Dusk said:

Here's the thing. It's no different from the kinect. Not really, the difference is that the screen is on your head insead of in front of you. For some reason MS could not come up with practical ways to incorporate normal movement within a game as well as the hand tracking. I honestly think this could have been resolved if they had made a single hand controller or something like that, but it was never done. Another issue with Kinect is that in different lighing conditions and different sized rooms and dependant on how much stuff is in the room affected how well it worked. Even the kinect 2 wasn't accurate enough to track something like a finger point or the like to create directional movement within a game. It would be better perhaps with a glove or something that had some form of ability to control direction. 

well sony have a single hand controller in the form of Nav controller as I mention, alternatively just a standard move control. Above all I think some people are over complicating the matter assuming that this is going to applied to complex games or all games. Microsoft could never incorporate normal movement in kinect, but who's to suggest that the games where this would be applied would have normal movements? Many of Morpheus's demos were on rails anyway, on top of that Kinect1 didn't have head tracking which is essentially act as an accurate analouge stick. Further more how many games did microsoft really push with Kinect? 

Even if this is only applied to a handful of gimmicky experiences it may still very well be worth their time, as those gimmicky experience tend to be the ones that grab the mass market. Imagine a Nintendogs clone in VR, why would you need a controller for it, on top of that would a target audience of kids prefer controller or just you their hands? Again I think people are merely thinking about experiences they want to play and not thinking about the broader picture. 

Your head won't act as an analogue stick. It's pivotal and doesn't bounce back like a normal analogue stick. With a stick you can keep pressing a direction and the motion still flows in that direction, if they were to do that with your head it will induce dizziness, think of staring a direction while spinning on a tire swing. As shown in almost every demo, this works very well with onrails demos, but as far as full 360's, the full body/hips and shoulders has better utilization and the head just as a pivot. 

Since they have the single control scheme with Move and likely updates with it, what is the need for hand tracking. They already track hand movement, and likely better just with the Move, plus with the added bonus of having an actual usable controller. This honestly just seems like a move advanced Kinect, but unfortunately with very similar limitations. Although, if the Kinect would have incorporated a wiimote/nunchuck controller variation to go along with its usage, it really might have been able to do something special, but at the same time it almost negates the kinect for a superior variation of motion control. Yes, the wiimote+ and nunchuck/Move are far superior to the kinect when motion controls are concerned with the exception of some workout games that can track if you are actually doing the exercises correctly.  



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

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Dusk on 21 May 2015
JRPGfan said:

"For some reason MS could not come up with practical ways to incorporate normal movement within a game as well as the hand tracking. I honestly think this could have been resolved if they had made a single hand controller or something like that, but it was never done."

Nintendo got it right with the Wii (not the wii u), the nunchucks are the solution to this, immersion need, not kinect.

The crazy thing is they abandoned their nunchuck (wii mote) motion controllers, that where so good and ahead of its time.

And they did it for the lame gamepad <.< that in turn sucks as a controller.

 

Handtracking is going to be a resource loss, thats going to slow development and result in nothing noteworthy for gameing.

This is Sony stepping on the banana peel, instead of learning from the results kinect showed.

I agree in many ways that the Wii had the best control scheme for what you are talking about. Although, I don't have any hate for the gamepad. A mix of both is really great. There are some games where I have the gamepad in front of me as a map/quick weapon switch while I play with the wiimote and nunchuck (shooters for the most part, BLOPS 2). However, with that said, the BEST shooter experience I have had that even trumps that is with splatoon even though it has only been a couple hours of useage so far. But for many games like the Lego games, the ability to utilize two screens in multiplayer is fantastic, as noted most recently with Lego the Hobbit. My wife and I love playing the Lego games. Light, easy, pick up and play,  just humerous and enjoyable. 

Some games have a normal controller as their best usage, like retro RPG's, but I still shake my head at the missed opportunity of a game like FO3 with the gamepad (pipboy) and Wiimote. Beyond a mouse and keyboard the wiimote would probably be the best way to play a game like Diablo as well. 



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

theprof00 on 21 May 2015

Wow, Sony is literally directly aiming at the h crowd. Smart move, seriously.
Although I'm sure hololens would do just as well inserting random naked people into your livingroom.



The_BlackHeart__ on 21 May 2015

No need for hands tracking. I want a controller that can be tracked. I believe that is better.



Nem on 21 May 2015
Dusk said:
Nem said:
Yes, its a good idea. Right now, even if you see this 3D world from your point of view, you can only interact with it through a controller, wich is counter-intuitive.

They need to keep researching and not send this thing to die rushing it to the market. There is a revolution brewing there, but its still not in a form where it can come out.


It has been found from the Kinect that this doesn't work well. It would actually make more sense with the Move, but even beyond that there are going to be issues with having a headset on, not being able to see your surroundings and a lack of situation awareness. Think there are/were issues with the Wii and smacking others, or breaking lamps, or causing various kinds of damage or whathave you. This will be far worse. 

I'm not going to deny it, I'm one of the ones that thinks this whole VR thing is a waste of time, but the weird part is that I like the Wii and Kinect because I tend to like new experiences, but I honestly think this is just a sinking ship. 


Yeah, but thats what i mean. They need to keep researching until they find an interface that actually works and feels intuitive.



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teigaga on 21 May 2015
Dusk said:
teigaga said:

well sony have a single hand controller in the form of Nav controller as I mention, alternatively just a standard move control. Above all I think some people are over complicating the matter assuming that this is going to applied to complex games or all games. Microsoft could never incorporate normal movement in kinect, but who's to suggest that the games where this would be applied would have normal movements? Many of Morpheus's demos were on rails anyway, on top of that Kinect1 didn't have head tracking which is essentially act as an accurate analouge stick. Further more how many games did microsoft really push with Kinect? 

Even if this is only applied to a handful of gimmicky experiences it may still very well be worth their time, as those gimmicky experience tend to be the ones that grab the mass market. Imagine a Nintendogs clone in VR, why would you need a controller for it, on top of that would a target audience of kids prefer controller or just you their hands? Again I think people are merely thinking about experiences they want to play and not thinking about the broader picture. 

Your head won't act as an analogue stick. It's pivotal and doesn't bounce back like a normal analogue stick. With a stick you can keep pressing a direction and the motion still flows in that direction, if they were to do that with your head it will induce dizziness, think of staring a direction while spinning on a tire swing. As shown in almost every demo, this works very well with onrails demos, but as far as full 360's, the full body/hips and shoulders has better utilization and the head just as a pivot. 

Since they have the single control scheme with Move and likely updates with it, what is the need for hand tracking. They already track hand movement, and likely better just with the Move, plus with the added bonus of having an actual usable controller. This honestly just seems like a move advanced Kinect, but unfortunately with very similar limitations. Although, if the Kinect would have incorporated a wiimote/nunchuck controller variation to go along with its usage, it really might have been able to do something special, but at the same time it almost negates the kinect for a superior variation of motion control. Yes, the wiimote+ and nunchuck/Move are far superior to the kinect when motion controls are concerned with the exception of some workout games that can track if you are actually doing the exercises correctly.  

Again no one said anything about full 3D movements, your head would act like a cursor which is what one analogue stick does in First and Third persons games and its something kinect never had. You're still talking about a 1 size fits all approach, whereas I'm talking about making the option available to devs and sonys marketing team. No one will argue against nav controller and move stick, that is obviously the main control scheme for any complex experience and the most responsive experience but its also $40 more in accessories and not as intuitive a sell as functional gesture controls for simpler experiences which are garuneteed as we've seen with sonys demos. You're right it has it limitations but that has nothing to do with its potential appeal. Think about about educational games, interactive stories, pet simulators, full body arcade games.

The argument that its worth nothing as far as the selling potential of VR is not something any of us can really say with much backing, the argument that it has potential whilst also being unlikely to cost sony an arm and leg in investment however if far more agreeable, no?



GamechaserBE on 21 May 2015
twintail said:
The_BlackHeart__ said:
No need for hands tracking. I want a controller that can be tracked. I believe that is better.


Which is how it works already and will continue to work.

Why are ppl acting like hand tracking is the only way you will be able to use the Morpheus? 


Because their will be that guy at marketing/management who thinks gamers wants to buy and play with an extra motion control thing..

Probably leading up to games that can not use a controller...     



teigaga on 21 May 2015
GamechaserBE said:
twintail said:


Which is how it works already and will continue to work.

Why are ppl acting like hand tracking is the only way you will be able to use the Morpheus? 


Because their will be that guy at marketing/management who thinks gamers wants to buy and play with an extra motion control thing..

Probably leading up to games that can not use a controller...     


I would hope by now sony is smarter then that. They're not going to sell move remotes and then make ton of motion controlled games which don't allow you to use them. 



Normchacho on 21 May 2015
Nem said:
Normchacho said:


Just out of curiosity, why don't you think Morpheus is ready to go on sale?


Because at the moment, its just a screen in your face. An unconfortable huge device attached to your head for hours will get unconfortable aswell. Its a disaster waiting to happen.

For this tech to work, it needs to work better. This new motion technology marriage is a good idea and it needs to be less cumbersome.


Well...all VR is going to be screen on your face, how else would you be able to see anything? Actually, so far people have been saying that the Morpheus is really comfortable and Sony seem to have gone to great lengths to make sure it was easy to wear.

Obviously as time goes on the headsets will get smaller and more comfortable, but the first impressions that we've been getting have been saying that it isn't really an issue with the current hardware.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

JRPGfan on 21 May 2015
Normchacho said:
Nem said:


Because at the moment, its just a screen in your face. An unconfortable huge device attached to your head for hours will get unconfortable aswell. Its a disaster waiting to happen.

For this tech to work, it needs to work better. This new motion technology marriage is a good idea and it needs to be less cumbersome.


Well...all VR is going to be screen on your face, how else would you be able to see anything? Actually, so far people have been saying that the Morpheus is really comfortable and Sony seem to have gone to great lengths to make sure it was easy to wear.

Obviously as time goes on the headsets will get smaller and more comfortable, but the first impressions that we've been getting have been saying that it isn't really an issue with the current hardware.

Yep people compaire it to oculus rift and say its much more comfortable to use.