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Forums - Gaming Discussion - I dont understand the hate Anita Sarkeesian is recieved over Mirrors Edge 2

 

What do you think of Anita

She sucks! 196 61.83%
 
Shes awesome! 18 5.68%
 
Don't care 60 18.93%
 
Sometimes I agree with he... 43 13.56%
 
Total:317
sundin13 said:
TRAVIS!!! said:

Spot on.

So many people don't even bother to watch her videos (in which she, for example, explains how violence against women is often different from violence against men, and how misogyny in games or movies can have negative impacts in real life) and rather just believe in lies that got spread on the internet. 

Sounds like you are the one who hasn't watched her videos. She blatantly misrepresents games, cherry picks to the nth degree and I would say that she lies at times.

Take her discussion of Hitman for instance:

What she says - In Hitman, you as the player are encouraged to murder innocent females and get perverse pleasure out of watching the ragdoll physics as you move their body around. This is proof that the game encourages the sexual repression of women and encourages violence against women

What actually happens - In 2/7ths of 1/20 missions, you have the capability to kill innocent females, as you would be able to do with any innocent male character in the game. In no way does the game encourage players to kill or even interact with these women, and in fact, it actively discourages this behaviour by inflicting rather strict point penalties if you were to kill them. The goal of the level in question is to sneak by them without being noticed, and it is even possible to go a completely different route and never encounter this situation in the first place.

Additionally, it is worth noting that there is virtually no reputable evidence that proves that actions in video games are tied to actions in real life. This was a large debate a few years back (the whole "video game violence causes real world violence") and the overall conclusion by the scientific community is that these accusation hold little to no water. 

I'm sure that sane people don't go out and rape someone because they've seen it in a videogame, just like they don't think it's okay to shoot people because they've played a shooter. I think the problem is that many people don't realize that their behaviour (by that I don't mean sexual violence, simply the way they perceive or treat women) isn't okay. They often don't question these things because they think that's normal and therefore promote harmful, sexist behaviour, perhaps even without any "evil" intentions. On the other hand, most people are well aware of the fact that murder isn't okay, which is why I do find it very silly when people say a person shot someone because videogames.

So, people who play games in which women are treated in a sexist way, might not realize that this is the case and therefore potentially behave like that in real life. Which is why I think it's important that games, movies, whatever, exist that don't contain sexism and portray women in a different way, because that might help people to see things differently, or question certain things.

Anita points out in one of her videos how that sort of sexism does have negative impact for both women and men, and also provides links and resources to back up her claims.

About hitman: What you're referring to is that 2-part "women as background decoration" video, if I remember correctly, so I'm not sure what I can say about this topic that she hasn't already.



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I love to hate that stupid Judeo Christian rhetoric of making sexual objectification a bad thing.... What is wrong with it exactly??? I'd rather see everybody but naked, fucking and perving all around me than the violent crap we say day in day out in modern society.... That puritan BS has to stop....
If anything she should criticizing everything else in the game but the sex... It's the most universally natural thing in those games...

Now that being said if we accept violence, hate, drugs, deviance of all kind why not accept women desecration??? You can't have it both way without accepting that you are preaching for a dogmatic concept... Art is amoral period.... No you have a pretty simple solution to her issue... Stop playing the games that don't fit your ideologue but stop trying to impose it to everyone else....



endimion said:
I love to hate that stupid Judeo Christian rhetoric of making sexual objectification a bad thing.... What is wrong with it exactly??? I'd rather see everybody but naked, fucking and perving all around me than the violent crap we say day in day out in modern society.... That puritan BS has to stop....
If anything she should criticizing everything else in the game but the sex... It's the most universally natural thing in those games...

Now that being said if we accept violence, hate, drugs, deviance of all kind why not accept women desecration??? You can't have it both way without accepting that you are preaching for a dogmatic concept... Art is amoral period.... No you have a pretty simple solution to her issue... Stop playing the games that don't fit your ideologue but stop trying to impose it to everyone else....


Lol Judeo-Christian? Last time I checked Islam had a slightly bigger issue with sexuality than protestant christianity does.

I agree with the gist of your post though. Art is amoral, unless you go out of your way to explicitly make it moralising. We need to have a free market where people can happily enjoy whatever weird stuff they happen to like. And whenever someone comes along claiming that thing X is damaging, as they constantly do, we should make the burden of proof they have to meet in criticising thing X, very very high. Videos laced with cherry picking and vague assertions derived from unmentioned social theories are simply not enough.



Oh yeah she blamed school shootings on ideas of toxic masculinity

That suggests she reckons females and males are not equal.

That proves she believes in feminine superiority.

That is NOT what feminism is about. This conflict proves she is in 'feminism' for another reason.

A feminist asks for money to make 12 videos in 2 years, makes less than half of that in the time period...hmmm

money....
She's in it for the money, she can make a quick buck off the gullible who think she is there to improve gaming



TRAVIS!!! said:

Anita points out in one of her videos how that sort of sexism does have negative impact for both women and men, and also provides links and resources to back up her claims.

About hitman: What you're referring to is that 2-part "women as background decoration" video, if I remember correctly, so I'm not sure what I can say about this topic that she hasn't already.


I'm not going to go into an in depth critique of her works here, but I think its fairly obvious that she misrepresents games extremely often. She often seems to pretend that these things are exclusive to women in these games and that the treatment of women in wholly different from the treatment of men, when more often than not, this just isn't true. Often, in the games that she shows women being treated badly in, it is simply a case of NPCs being treated badly. Often, the male and female NPCs even share identical animation, however, somehow she believes that it is sexist when you have the ability to kill a woman in a video game, but perfectly fine to kill a man in the exact same way.

Also worth noting, there is a large difference between portraying behavior and condoning behaviour, which Anita doesn't seem to understand. Showing a stripper or a prostitute in a game is in no way sexist, as she seems to think, it is often just a way to color the world, and more often than not, it isn't trying to color the world in an attractive light. In no way does this send the message like this is the way women should be treated, in these dystopian societies or sub societies that she continually attacks. If anything, I'd say it says the opposite. There are a good deal of games which portray sexualized women to good effect in creating the world and I think it should be noted that this is in no way sexist. Even more so when talking about period pieces like Red Dead Redemption or pseudo-period pieces like Dishonored and God of War



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garywood said:
endimion said:
I love to hate that stupid Judeo Christian rhetoric of making sexual objectification a bad thing.... What is wrong with it exactly??? I'd rather see everybody but naked, fucking and perving all around me than the violent crap we say day in day out in modern society.... That puritan BS has to stop....
If anything she should criticizing everything else in the game but the sex... It's the most universally natural thing in those games...

Now that being said if we accept violence, hate, drugs, deviance of all kind why not accept women desecration??? You can't have it both way without accepting that you are preaching for a dogmatic concept... Art is amoral period.... No you have a pretty simple solution to her issue... Stop playing the games that don't fit your ideologue but stop trying to impose it to everyone else....


Lol Judeo-Christian? Last time I checked Islam had a slightly bigger issue with sexuality than protestant christianity does.

I agree with the gist of your post though. Art is amoral, unless you go out of your way to explicitly make it moralising. We need to have a free market where people can happily enjoy whatever weird stuff they happen to like. And whenever someone comes along claiming that thing X is damaging, as they constantly do, we should make the burden of proof they have to meet in criticising thing X, very very high. Videos laced with cherry picking and vague assertions derived from unmentioned social theories are simply not enough.

Games are art indeed but most of them must meet a few standards to look like a pseudo form of our reality. That's why it could be argued that it's not completley free. Games are also designed to sell to their demographics and each one dictates a set of of flexible standards. Gore, violence, sex and one dimensional token must-be-insanely-attractive female characters that are badly writen. This representation that mimics reality might not damage the male player psyche or his morals but it can bore and alainate female gamers.

I'm generalizing here maybe but that's what games, the thing I just called art, is doing as a whole. if you take these games individually you can see that they did their own thing with their characters but if you take them as whole then it's gonna feel like they're all following one guide book for approaching female characters.

 



.- -... -.-. -..

I don't know who she is and recently is the first time I heard of her.



Wright said:

I don't want the same woman who called Ico a sexist game to do anything at all in the videogame industry. I don't care if she can make up baddas women; her whole philosophy doesn't help gaming at all, but a very appointed agenda and her own interest (and wallet).


This



sundin13 said:
TRAVIS!!! said:

Spot on.

So many people don't even bother to watch her videos (in which she, for example, explains how violence against women is often different from violence against men, and how misogyny in games or movies can have negative impacts in real life) and rather just believe in lies that got spread on the internet. 

Sounds like you are the one who hasn't watched her videos. She blatantly misrepresents games, cherry picks to the nth degree and I would say that she lies at times.

Take her discussion of Hitman for instance:

What she says - In Hitman, you as the player are encouraged to murder innocent females and get perverse pleasure out of watching the ragdoll physics as you move their body around. This is proof that the game encourages the sexual repression of women and encourages violence against women

What actually happens - In 2/7ths of 1/20 missions, you have the capability to kill innocent females, as you would be able to do with any innocent male character in the game. In no way does the game encourage players to kill or even interact with these women, and in fact, it actively discourages this behaviour by inflicting rather strict point penalties if you were to kill them. The goal of the level in question is to sneak by them without being noticed, and it is even possible to go a completely different route and never encounter this situation in the first place.

Additionally, it is worth noting that there is virtually no reputable evidence that proves that actions in video games are tied to actions in real life. This was a large debate a few years back (the whole "video game violence causes real world violence") and the overall conclusion by the scientific community is that these accusation hold little to no water. 



So she said that about hitman? Ugh. If I remember correctly, none of the targets are female and you can kill any npc you come across.

She's awesome. I love gaming, but in its current state, sexism, homophobia and racism are rampant. I'm glad she has the guts to say the things she does. People who aren't affected by these things are the people who bash her (mostly out of ignorance and partially out of denial). What can I say? Haters gonna hate.