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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Edit: Anita Sarkeesian is not helping with the development of Mirrors Edge; Rejoice!

Btw, as for the actual topic.

I don't really see the problem. If she's as inept with video games as people think (believe me, I'm no fan of hers) she will crash and burn on her own (lack of merit).

You never know, she might have taken on board the criticism that has been levelled at her and become a good consultant for them, which is good for everyone.

At the end of the day, EA and EA alone know what they want/expect as a result of her being a consultant, if they feel it was successful, they may choose to continue to work with her. If they don't, they won't. It's really not for whiney internet petitions to try and force this.

I doubt she'll have much in the way of impact on the outcome of the game, it's not as if they'll be "here's our finished game, what do you think?" "oh no no no you can't do this, that and the other, change it all and start again!"

If it was, I guarantee EA would just be "LOL GTF!"

You never know, she might make a positive contribution to Mirror's Edge 2. She's certainly not the single entity that will turn it from a great game to an awful one.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

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McGilliguts said:
o_O.Q said:
i'm just going to point out the 10 000 pound purple elephant in the room that people generally overlook:

equality between men and women is a joke because men and women are inherently different

men are generally more sexually driven, more physically powerful and more violent

whereas women are far more influential than men with regards to the sexual power that they have

yes there can be equal rights between men and women and we have achieved that; but this idea that we can achieve a utopia where men and women are equal is fundamentally flawed

and again this is an underlying flaw in feminism this idea that there are no significant inherent differences between men and women... that behavior is all conditioned by society

no... as with all things in existence there is a mixing of two extremes the environment and biology


Of course we all know this is correct, but we can't really point these things out because they lead to conclusions that society is uncomfortable with. The same thing could be said about race for instance.

However, simply ignoring biological factors leads to unfair policies based upon false ideas of equality - the unwarranted persecution of "priveleged" groups for their successes and the unjustified elevation of historically underprivileged groups to positions of power which they did not earn and are not qualified for.


yes which is where the notion that white men live life in easy mode and so other groups need a leg up while white men are demonised comes from



If you're so worried about her doing a terrible job. Just do nothing.

2 very good reasons:
-She'll probably get fired
-Vote with your dollars. If this is a bad choice by EA, they'll feel it in the wallet and not bring her back for anything else ever



I predict NX launches in 2017 - not 2016

o_O.Q said:

So... uh having a night designated specifically for women where only they are allowed out on the streeets is equal treatement... well what can i say lol i actually can't think of a retort lol

 

"You know, the gender that gets raped hundreds of times more than men."

well i wonder about that myself

isn't it interesting that we are told that rape is the most gruesome terrifying thing anyone can experience yet when the conversation turns to the gang raping of men in prison it then becomes a joke?

i have no statistics to back this one but i'd hazard a guess that if the men who are raped in prison were totalled it would outnumber the number for women raped on the streets

what have feminist who want equality and want rape squashed done for the men in prison... absolutely nothing

 

but anyway with regards to the law  have you actually gone and analysed what they are trying to do? well i guess perhaps it doesn't matter to you either way given your earlier response

 

"It does mostly protect women from getting raped."

 

well no it actually protects men too but ultimately the aggressor is always classed as a man since men do the penetrating

again the point is to enforce the stereotype that men are the sexually deviant violent sex while women are less capable of evil

 

"Many of the laws are there to protect women.  You know why?  Because biologically, men are stronger than women. "

 

ah ok so therefore because men are more capable of certain forms of evil they must have more restrictions placed upon them because of the actions of a relatively small amount of men

lol do you not see that you are backpeddling now? i thought you said feminism was about equality and not about putting more restrictions on men via laws?

let me ask you something how does evil manifest itself in women since they are less capable of violence? have you ever thought about that? ah forget it its irrelevant

 

" Historically, women have been dominated.  This is fact. "


yes women were and men died for them in the millions let us not pretend that women did not benefit from the old arrangement in anyway

women were denied many basic rights by men who if the time called for it were expected to die for women

and i'm not saying that this justifies it in anyway i'm simply making the point that the old arrangement oppressed men also

in those days in times of adversity you can be sure i would have rather been a woman than a man

 

" But you're cherry picking little articles and bits and pieces of these laws and indicating that they COULD be used for bad."

 

i kind of thought that was the point... you asked me to provide examples and i did

 

"Also, Bayonetta is an absolutely ridiculous game in terms of its blatent sexuality."

 

yes because it is bad for women to be overtly sexual correct? isn't that slut shaming? or is it victim blaming? honestly i'm losing track of all of these terms lol

 

 

one thing i must say though is that for someone who isn't here to defend feminism you really do seem to be bending over backwards to do so

 

"So... uh having a night designated specifically for women where only they are allowed out on the streeets is equal treatement... well what can i say lol i actually can't think of a retort lol"

Do you read?  There was a night for women, then a night for men, then a night for couples.  

"i kind of thought that was the point... you asked me to provide examples and i did"

I asked you to provide me examples where my freedoms were compromised. You sent a link of a one time thing in Colombia where the mayor had a "ladies night", then a week later had a "man's night", and then a week later had a "couple's night."  That example proves absolutely nothing. You're ignoring an important aspect of the article because it doesn't fit your argumen. You sent me a definition of rape, and you sent me an article on the california Yes Means Yes law, which redefines how we view rape. You've also decided to only consider specific pieces of each and use your own assumptions to support your view. I'm not naive here.  I know people will use these laws and bills to their advantage.  But the laws themselves aren't feminist in nature.

"isn't it interesting that we are told that rape is the most gruesome terrifying thing anyone can experience yet when the conversation turns to the gang raping of men in prison it then becomes a joke? i have no statistics to back this one but i'd hazard a guess that if the men who are raped in prison were totalled it would outnumber the number for women raped on the streets"

It might outnumber them, or it might not.  And any statstics aren't very useful at best, due to our reluctance as a species to report rapes, but a quick search gave me "1 in 10 rape victims are men. (Rathus, Nevid and Fichner-Rathus, 568)".  So....9 times as many women get raped than men.  Kind of irrelevant though.  By your third link, these prison guys are covered by the definiton of rape. So, what's "feminist" about the definition of rape?

"yes because it is bad for women to be overtly sexual correct? isn't that slut shaming? or is it victim blaming? honestly i'm losing track of all of these terms lol"

And where did I say any of that? Bayonetta is very ridiculous and over the top.  In many ways.  Sexuality is absolutely included in that. To deny it is denying the obvious.  It's neither slut shaming nor victim blaming because IT'S A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER!

"lol do you not see that you are backpeddling now? i thought you said feminism was about equality and not about putting more restrictions on men via laws?"

Where's the backpeddling?  I didn't say anything remotely like that. 

"ah ok so therefore because men are more capable of certain forms of evil they must have more restrictions placed upon them because of the actions of a relatively small amount of men"

Women can be just as evil as men.  But we're stronger.  We're more aggressive (you even said so yourself a few posts back, using the word "violent"). A 250 pound man has more options available to him than a 110 pound woman if both of their goals for the day are to assault someone of the opposite gender.

"well no it actually protects men too but ultimately the aggressor is always classed as a man since men do the penetrating. again the point is to enforce the stereotype that men are the sexually deviant violent sex"

So are men violent or aren't they?  You seem to be a little wishy washy on that. I'm down for whatever laws protect potential victims of sexual violence.  End of story.  I don't necessarily see how the Yes Means Yes law is going to do much of anything, since this is mostly policed by the schools. But schools are required to use the "preponderance of evidence" standard in this law, so who knows? 

"one thing i must say though is that for someone who isn't here to defend feminism you really do seem to be bending over backwards to do so"

Not defending feminism in the least.  I just don't feel like feminism is infringing on my rights in any way. Those examples you gave aren't really convincing me otherwise.  Anyway, I'm done with this.  I don't even feel strongly enough about this to continue.  You clearly have your views. Have fun.



o_O.Q said:
HBninjaX said:

LW2 has no business consulting on video games. She has admitted she's not a gamer and she was formerly employed by a professional pickup artist who talked about women in a derogatory manner.


which pick up artist?


http://guardianlv.com/2014/11/anita-sarkeesian-unmasked-feminist-icon-or-con-artist/



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Oh my god, really? There's a petition for this?

You guys need to find something better do with your time. She'd be one person in a dev team of hundreds, I highly doubt she's going to ruin the game. If, by some chance, Mirror's Edge 2 ends up being less that stellar, the blame for that will fall on the whole team, not just her.

I mean SERIOUSLY, people. There are so. many. problems. that are bigger than this. How about a petition to get Ubisoft and Activision to stop shamelessly gouging consumers with drip-fed DLC? Or one asking the big third-party publishers to stop driving franchises into the ground by releasing a new iteration every year, sometimes twice a year? Or, I don't know, allowing games the same recognition as film and allowing them to be sold if they have an R rating, anywhere in the developed world? Or not having GTAV banned from Target throughout Australia because some concerned parents kicked up a fuss? Or having games actually work properly from the first day of their release?

Compared to any of those issues, this just looks like petty nonsense.



CladInShadows said:
o_O.Q said:

So... uh having a night designated specifically for women where only they are allowed out on the streeets is equal treatement... well what can i say lol i actually can't think of a retort lol

 

"You know, the gender that gets raped hundreds of times more than men."

well i wonder about that myself

isn't it interesting that we are told that rape is the most gruesome terrifying thing anyone can experience yet when the conversation turns to the gang raping of men in prison it then becomes a joke?

i have no statistics to back this one but i'd hazard a guess that if the men who are raped in prison were totalled it would outnumber the number for women raped on the streets

what have feminist who want equality and want rape squashed done for the men in prison... absolutely nothing

 

but anyway with regards to the law  have you actually gone and analysed what they are trying to do? well i guess perhaps it doesn't matter to you either way given your earlier response

 

"It does mostly protect women from getting raped."

 

well no it actually protects men too but ultimately the aggressor is always classed as a man since men do the penetrating

again the point is to enforce the stereotype that men are the sexually deviant violent sex while women are less capable of evil

 

"Many of the laws are there to protect women.  You know why?  Because biologically, men are stronger than women. "

 

ah ok so therefore because men are more capable of certain forms of evil they must have more restrictions placed upon them because of the actions of a relatively small amount of men

lol do you not see that you are backpeddling now? i thought you said feminism was about equality and not about putting more restrictions on men via laws?

let me ask you something how does evil manifest itself in women since they are less capable of violence? have you ever thought about that? ah forget it its irrelevant

 

" Historically, women have been dominated.  This is fact. "


yes women were and men died for them in the millions let us not pretend that women did not benefit from the old arrangement in anyway

women were denied many basic rights by men who if the time called for it were expected to die for women

and i'm not saying that this justifies it in anyway i'm simply making the point that the old arrangement oppressed men also

in those days in times of adversity you can be sure i would have rather been a woman than a man

 

" But you're cherry picking little articles and bits and pieces of these laws and indicating that they COULD be used for bad."

 

i kind of thought that was the point... you asked me to provide examples and i did

 

"Also, Bayonetta is an absolutely ridiculous game in terms of its blatent sexuality."

 

yes because it is bad for women to be overtly sexual correct? isn't that slut shaming? or is it victim blaming? honestly i'm losing track of all of these terms lol

 

 

one thing i must say though is that for someone who isn't here to defend feminism you really do seem to be bending over backwards to do so

 

"So... uh having a night designated specifically for women where only they are allowed out on the streeets is equal treatement... well what can i say lol i actually can't think of a retort lol"

Do you read?  There was a night for women, then a night for men, then a night for couples.  

"i kind of thought that was the point... you asked me to provide examples and i did"

I asked you to provide me examples where my freedoms were compromised. You sent a link of a one time thing in Colombia where the mayor had a "ladies night", then a week later had a "man's night", and then a week later had a "couple's night."  That example proves absolutely nothing. You're ignoring an important aspect of the article because it doesn't fit your argumen. You sent me a definition of rape, and you sent me an article on the california Yes Means Yes law, which redefines how we view rape. You've also decided to only consider specific pieces of each and use your own assumptions to support your view. I'm not naive here.  I know people will use these laws and bills to their advantage.  But the laws themselves aren't feminist in nature.

"isn't it interesting that we are told that rape is the most gruesome terrifying thing anyone can experience yet when the conversation turns to the gang raping of men in prison it then becomes a joke? i have no statistics to back this one but i'd hazard a guess that if the men who are raped in prison were totalled it would outnumber the number for women raped on the streets"

It might outnumber them, or it might not.  And any statstics aren't very useful at best, due to our reluctance as a species to report rapes, but a quick search gave me "1 in 10 rape victims are men. (Rathus, Nevid and Fichner-Rathus, 568)".  So....9 times as many women get raped than men.  Kind of irrelevant though.  By your third link, these prison guys are covered by the definiton of rape. So, what's "feminist" about the definition of rape?

"yes because it is bad for women to be overtly sexual correct? isn't that slut shaming? or is it victim blaming? honestly i'm losing track of all of these terms lol"

And where did I say any of that? Bayonetta is very ridiculous and over the top.  In many ways.  Sexuality is absolutely included in that. To deny it is denying the obvious.  It's neither slut shaming nor victim blaming because IT'S A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER!

"lol do you not see that you are backpeddling now? i thought you said feminism was about equality and not about putting more restrictions on men via laws?"

Where's the backpeddling?  I didn't say anything remotely like that. 

"ah ok so therefore because men are more capable of certain forms of evil they must have more restrictions placed upon them because of the actions of a relatively small amount of men"

Women can be just as evil as men.  But we're stronger.  We're more aggressive (you even said so yourself a few posts back, using the word "violent"). A 250 pound man has more options available to him than a 110 pound woman if both of their goals for the day are to assault someone of the opposite gender.

"well no it actually protects men too but ultimately the aggressor is always classed as a man since men do the penetrating. again the point is to enforce the stereotype that men are the sexually deviant violent sex"

So are men violent or aren't they?  You seem to be a little wishy washy on that. I'm down for whatever laws protect potential victims of sexual violence.  End of story.  I don't necessarily see how the Yes Means Yes law is going to do much of anything, since this is mostly policed by the schools. But schools are required to use the "preponderance of evidence" standard in this law, so who knows? 

"one thing i must say though is that for someone who isn't here to defend feminism you really do seem to be bending over backwards to do so"

Not defending feminism in the least.  I just don't feel like feminism is infringing on my rights in any way. Those examples you gave aren't really convincing me otherwise.  Anyway, I'm done with this.  I don't even feel strongly enough about this to continue.  You clearly have your views. Have fun.


yeah the men's curfew point was my mistake i had actually read this article that doesn't actually mention the men's night

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/08/us-foundation-colombia-womensrights-idUSKCN0HX1EP20141008

and a google search for a corresponding men's night in the city comes up with nothing

but yeah i'm done with this also most men are too filled with guilt over being male to really bother with these things anyway 

  



binary solo said:
Zoombael said:
binary solo said:
Why try to get her kicked off? Surely having her on the dev team is a good thing. Don't you want her to put her money where her mouth is?

Either it will prove that great and compelling games can be made with zero content that can be alleged to be sexist. Or it will prove that she is shit at actually working on game content because her ideas and demands are simply unmarketable. Either way the industry gets to move on.

I support Anita Sarkeesian being on the dev team. Clearly she won;t be writing or directing or designing. She's obviously a "gender content" consultant. So in the end the elements of a game that are supposedly meant to be most important (gameplay) should not at all be influenced or affected by her. So why are people actually concerned? Is it just because they hate her? Yeah, I think it is.


Aaand Mirrors Edge was sexist in what way?

Can you point out where I said Mirror's Edge is sexist? Can you point out where Anita Sarkeesian has levelled an accusation of sexist tropes against Mirror's Edge? Perhaps she, and EA, chose Mirror's Edge as a "safe" project for her to work on because there is essentially nothing objectionable from a feminist perspective, and she can get some inside appreciation and understanding of game development with very little chance of her actually fucking up the game.


As you are clearly supporting her cause there must be something wrong with ME (from a feminist perspective *roll eyes*). Otherwise there is no reason to give her rear cover. Pro or contra. As simple as that. Since you're pro-femnazi you got to have a valid argument why she should be involved in game development at all. Not some hankypanky appeasement BS.



Hunting Season is done...

atomicblue said:
Oh my god, really? There's a petition for this?

You guys need to find something better do with your time. She'd be one person in a dev team of hundreds, I highly doubt she's going to ruin the game. If, by some chance, Mirror's Edge 2 ends up being less that stellar, the blame for that will fall on the whole team, not just her.

I mean SERIOUSLY, people. There are so. many. problems. that are bigger than this. How about a petition to get Ubisoft and Activision to stop shamelessly gouging consumers with drip-fed DLC? Or one asking the big third-party publishers to stop driving franchises into the ground by releasing a new iteration every year, sometimes twice a year? Or, I don't know, allowing games the same recognition as film and allowing them to be sold if they have an R rating, anywhere in the developed world? Or not having GTAV banned from Target throughout Australia because some concerned parents kicked up a fuss? Or having games actually work properly from the first day of their release?

Compared to any of those issues, this just looks like petty nonsense.

It's not as much as her ruining the game as it is that Devs are actually listening to her.  That just legitimizes FF and it could be the start of a potential trend.  

Sure the publishers and triple A game devs have issues but I believe in voting with your dollars.  Whatever you reward you get more of.  It's that simple.  I don't buy Ubisoft games or CAll of Duty games out of principle (and because I saw the direction the games were going early on)

The people that banned GTA V aren't concerned parents, they're the same people that agree with Anita.  We call them Social Justice Warriors and their number one goal is to destroy fun.  Keep taking that blue pill tho



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