By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - NIV (New International Version) and NWT (New World Translation) Exposed

 

Eh?

*Flips table* 2 13.33%
 
*Stares* 8 53.33%
 
*Standing ovation* 4 26.67%
 
Total:14

Okay, on this one I have to say, you're not making sense anymore. Adam is a son of God in the sense that a Creator made His creation, but not in the same sense as Christ. Also, the verses about Satan and Jesus? You're stretching.



Around the Network
BraveNewWorld said:
Leadified said:
BraveNewWorld said:
All Bibles are wrong as they call Yeshua by a false name.


I suppose "Josh" is a not very messiah sounding name.


You don't translate the pronunciation of someones name, only it's spelling to fit the language.

Translation is the biggest problem of holy books as they weren't translated directly from source material and were sometime misinterpreted.


Not true. Languages translate the pronunciation of names all the time. For example, the Danish city "Cöpenhagen" is not pronunced closely at all to what a danish person would call it.



Tachikoma said:
Nintentacle said:
Tachikoma said:

When you can prove it isn't i'll use some of my time proving it is,  until then the burden of proof lies with the one trying to convince others. 

There is no burden of proof. You can prove a negative by taking the positive's claims and showing something that suggest otherwise.





spurgeonryan said:
I have been wrong most of my life. Now that I see this I do not think I can believe in gods anymore. I mean, how could he allow these mistakes?

Because he allowed free-willed creatures to make them.



swbf2lord said:
Okay, on this one I have to say, you're not making sense anymore. Adam is a son of God in the sense that a Creator made His creation, but not in the same sense as Christ. Also, the verses about Satan and Jesus? You're stretching.

Dem removed words doe.



Around the Network

Well I'm an atheist, so it's difficult for me to have an opinion about this.



Add me on Xbox: DWTKarma 

Soriku said:

Well I can certainly tell you Adam and Eve, Noah's flood, Tower of Babel, and Exodus have no historical or scientific basis.

I have to ask, God's best plan to communicate what should be a a very important message, is some crusty old compilation of books? Like he couldn't have found a more convincing way for everyone across all ages to come to conclusion that the Christian god exists? Even if he wants to use a book of all things (which marketer would rely only on a book to market their product these days?), he should've wrote it himself in some magical universal language and added some pizzazz. It should be attached to your body from birth. Also, when you open the book, it should immediately blow your fucking mind. There should be a radiant light and an angelic chorus coming out of it and shit. Instead many people sit there reading it, bored out of their minds. Falling asleep in church and shit. Every once in a while there's a genocide or some sexy time to keep things interested, but I would expect more from THE LORD.


a. Actually, there is scientific evidence of a great flood (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533). Whether or not that proves anything is arguable. 

b. If everything was spelled out and clear, there would be no need for faith. He doesn't want to convince everyone with certainty, he wants you to doubt and he wants you to test your faith. You seemed to have completely missed the point. Everybody acknowledges that religion is, by definition, unscientific. It cannot be proved wrong, and it cannot be proved right. Some people may use that and say "it cannot be proven, therefore I will be an atheist," and that is a perfectly acceptable conclusion to come to. I don't see why people need to try to deny other people of their faith though. 

If you try to use the Bible as an argument against science, I will be among the first to tell you how wrong you are, however, if you try to use science to counter someones faith, I wont really take too kindly to that either. 



Soriku said:

 
Well I can certainly tell you Adam and Eve, Noah's flood, Tower of Babel, and Exodus have no historical or scientific basis.

Neither does the possibility that Johnson Johnson Johnson III is married and has 3 children, 1 orphan, and is middle-class.

I have to ask, God's best plan to communicate what should be a a very important message, is some crusty old compilation of books? Like he couldn't have found a more convincing way for everyone across all ages to come to conclusion that the Christian god exists? Even if he wants to use a book of all things (which marketer would rely only on a book to market their product these days?), he should've wrote it himself in some magical universal language and added some pizzazz. It should be attached to your body from birth. Also, when you open the book, it should immediately blow your fucking mind. There should be a radiant light and an angelic chorus coming out of it and shit. Instead many people sit there reading it, bored out of their minds. Falling asleep in church and shit. Every once in a while there's a genocide or some sexy time to keep things interested, but I would expect more from THE LORD.

People are bored out of their minds while reading because of the hardness of their hearts. As for better proof, Abraham put it well: "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."





Guess no one heard of Gilgamesh? Ya know the original flood tale that Noah was ripped off of. Too many people incorrectly treat the fables in the bible as literal events instead of the colorful lesson filled fictional stories that they actually are.



http://www.youtube.com/v/AoOOpLpcF28 http://www.youtube.com/v/CphFZGH5030

All Hail the Jester King. The King is back, and I am still a dirty girl prof ;)

Soriku said:
sundin13 said:

a. Actually, there is scientific evidence of a great flood (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533). Whether or not that proves anything is arguable. 

b. If everything was spelled out and clear, there would be no need for faith. He doesn't want to convince everyone with certainty, he wants you to doubt and he wants you to test your faith. You seemed to have completely missed the point. Everybody acknowledges that religion is, by definition, unscientific. It cannot be proved wrong, and it cannot be proved right. Some people may use that and say "it cannot be proven, therefore I will be an atheist," and that is a perfectly acceptable conclusion to come to. I don't see why people need to try to deny other people of their faith though. 

If you try to use the Bible as an argument against science, I will be among the first to tell you how wrong you are, however, if you try to use science to counter someones faith, I wont really take too kindly to that either. 


What is the point of faith? What does it accomplish? I thought it was a matter of going to heaven or hell here. God, if he even exists, could stand to be less transparent.

Also, what's wrong with using science to counter faith? Are you insinuating faith shouldn't be questioned, especially when it's based on little to no basis in reality?


a. I've known quite a few people who gave gotten their lives back on track with the help of religion. People always like to talk about all the harm of religion but ignore all of the people who got back on track because of it or have done plenty of good in its name. Religion helps many people center their own moral compass (not saying religion is required to be a good person of course).

Basically, when you are a person of faith, you are saying that you will follow the moral compass imparted upon you by the bible (although there are some antiquated ideals that get propagated by people who forget that hate is not encouraged by the bible). You will do good whenever possible.

If god was transparent, it wouldn't be much of a test would it? It would be like giving someone all of the answers for a quiz and then acting like that quiz actually told you anything. Our faith is our answer to that test...if the test was too easy, it wouldn't tell us anything, so the test is really hard. (PS: My own personal belief is that a good person may go to heaven regardless of whether they hold correct beliefs...but thats partially just me)

b. As I said, religion can't be countered with science. You can say "there is evidence that the world is billions of years old" and the religious people can counter that by saying "well, God created the earth with age" and be on with their day. Thats not to say that religion should go unquestioned, but those questions should be personal. I said in the other thread that everyone should define their own religion. They should take in the facts around them and make their own conclusion. They should look at the bible and other religious texts and science and come to their own conclusion. 

I don't think much good comes from challenging the religion of others...discussion is fine as long as it is open ended and inquisitive instead of attacking. You shouldn't say "your religion is false because we haven't found archeological evidence of the Tower of Babel", but you are free to say "How do you explain the lack of archeological evidence of the Tower of Babel". One tries to take impart your own beliefs on another person and the other attempts to get them to think. I have had some great discussions with people who believed different things than me because we both threw open ended questions at each other and explained our answers. We should, as religious folk, think about our religion and being blindly religious should be a sin because you are just ignoring the gift of critical thinking that we were given by God (or evolution). That being said, when we say we are religious, we don't deserve to be called stupid or ignorant or be jumped on by a bunch of blind followers who know less about evolution/science than I do...

I know that was a bit of a mess of a response, but I hope that made some semblance of sense. 

PS: The bible, regardless of its religious merits is a masterpiece of literature...sure, there are sections (namely the lineages...blegh) that are dreadfully boring, but overall, theres a lot of good stuff