By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo lowers forecast from 55 billion yen profit to 25 billion yen loss

TK14 on 17 January 2014

Iwata's official financial statements at a press conference just held in Japan:

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=220598



Upcoming Games To Get

Definite: Kirby Star Allies (Switch), Mario Tennis Aces (Switch), Fire Emblem (Switch), Yoshi (Switch), Pokemon (Switch), Kingdom Hearts 3 (PS4), Monster Hunter World (PS4)

Considering: Fe (Switch), Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze (Switch), The World Ends With You (Switch), Ys VIII (Switch), Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition (PS4), Kingdom Hearts 2.8 Remix (PS4), The Last Guardian (PS4), Shadow of the Colossus HD (PS4), Anthem (PS4), Shenmue 3 (PS4), WiLD (PS4)

Around the Network
Soundwave on 17 January 2014
superhippy420 said:
I still don't think the Wii U's problems have anything to do with hardware specs or the tablet controller, but has everything to do with the lack of big 1st party games, and Iwata should be taking the blame for this. 3rd Party games have never sold / carried Nintendo's consoles, and they could have pretty much every 3rd party game out there and it still wouldn't matter. People want Nintendo games for their Nintendo Console. The "Wii" franchise (Sports,Fit,Play), Mario,Zelda,Mario Kart, Smash Bros,Donkey Kong,Animal Crossing. Metroid,Kirby,Starfox,F-Zero,Pikmin and all of their other franchises have always been 1 - 2 million sellers and none have ever moved consoles, but have been solid software sellers for Nintendo when their base is there. For Nintendo in their 1st full year to only release (of their big franchises) 2 rehashes (NSMBU,Wind Waker HD), and 1 semi-sequel(SM3DW) is pathetic. For as much as I love SM3DW, it should have been a brand spanking new Mario game that we have never seen before like SMB,SMW,SM64, Sunshine,and Galaxy. I do think Nintendo will do much better in 2014, but they better bring atleast 4 more games on top of Smash,Kart,DK,Bayonetta,X,and Hyrule Warriors. Also Wonderful 101 was a huge mistake, maybe with a big install base it would have done better, but to try to move consoles with it was a big miscalculation. The 3DS fell below expected sales, but it's still making Nintendo money no doubt. It's biggest problem is it has not found its NSMB/Nintendogs/Brain Age to really pump up sales, but thats what happens when you don't take a few chances with some new IP's.


The whole "we're going to make a console almost one full generation behind the others!" formula just doesn't work without a blockbuster type of controller to go with it. 

That's where that whole house of cards falls apart. 



ZyroXZ2 on 17 January 2014
kowenicki said:
ZyroXZ2 said:
kowenicki said:
ZyroXZ2 said:
Hmmm, maybe I don't fully understand the financial jargon from the links, but if they posted a loss rather than a profit, couldn't a large portion of these losses actually be DEVELOPMENT costs?! We all know the 2014 schedule for Wii U is packed with both announced AND unannounced (or at least only acknowledged to exist, nothing has been shown) games being developed straight from Nintendo's pockets. If we know WHAT is causing the loss, it may not be as bad as it seems...

Think about it, what if they're posting a loss because 2014 is about to blow our minds with how much money they've been pouring into development of games during this 2013 fiscal year?!


its rather obvious wahts causing the loss.  The WiiU forecast has been slashed massively.

So they were expecting much higher revenus and profits on the back of the WiiU that is now not going to happen.

There is no way to make this look ok.  Its terrible.  The markets will kick them, although the stock is already poor.

The Wii U is still sold at a loss, no?  All the profits would have been made on selling MULTIPLE games per system (not just one), and since most Wii Us sold during the holidays are bundles, I kind of see each Wii U sold in which NO separate game is purchased as being a loss...  Hence, the Wii U selling even MORE, but NOT selling enough separate, unbundled games, would only have resulted in greater operating losses, right?

is it?  who says?

and the games (remeber, the majority are first party) are massive profit drivers.  if you arent selling WiiU's you arent selling games for it either.

You are reaching here, the most logical and reasonable conclusion is the results are down due to poor sales. 

I'm not reaching at all here.  There has been no updated to the cost of production of the Wii U, and though it naturally gets cheaper over time, it's still largely presumed to be sold at a loss.

http://n4g.com/news/1150824/wii-u-is-not-profitable-after-one-game-sale

Then, to make matters worse, they cave into the demand for a price drop, and drop the price $50.  This would naturally imply the console STILL remains a loss to sell.  Then they bundled it with NSMBU+NSLU (or even the WWHD bundle), giving initial buyers of those systems little-to-no reason to go out and buy TWO games (because one game doesn't make the system profitable).  I see each console selling at a loss right there, so IF the system had sold two or three times more, that could have potentially NEVER resulted in the profit forecast anyway.  Them selling lower than expected may not have been the source of such massive losses, which is WHY I've been conjecturing that there have been decisions to pump additional money into marketing and current development projects...

Edit: I should note that it's largely assumed that it would have to be a first-party title that drives reasonable profits for the Wii U.  Someone who buys the NSMBU+NSLU bundle and then goes out and buys CoD:Ghosts+Batman:AO is probably an overall loss on that purchase for Nintendo right there...



Check out my entertainment gaming channel!
^^/
DanneSandin on 17 January 2014
Soundwave said:
DanneSandin said:
Soundwave said:
DanneSandin said:

I think that if/when Nintendo releases a gaming tablet it'll work with the WII U, and they'll release a Wii U sku without the gamepad, and you'll be able to use your Nintendo Tablet instead. But this would mean that they'd need to develop games for 3 different kind of platforms, and they can barelt keep up with two consoles...


I think honestly at this stage Wii U is almost like small potatoes for Nintendo. They'll ride it out and give it the token Mario Kart + Smash + Zelda + whatever else is in development for it and let that be that. 

What they need is a new bonafied hit product line. Wii U is never going to be the money maker Nintendo wants it to be. 

I suspect a Nintendo tablet that can run 3DS games in HD resolution along with legacy games and even some scaled down Wii U ports (DKC: TF, Mario Kart 8, etc.) could perform well for them (within reasonable expectations, don't expect an iPad killer or something ridiculous) without neccessarily demanding completely new software development. 

I'm just curious how a 3DS port would work on a tablet... Would you divede the screen in two, kind of like how the 2DS functions? I think it would be a smarter move to port over some Wii U games, rather than 3DS games. The 3DS is still making money for Nintendo, so why would they wanna cut into those profits? Better port over Wii U games and make the tablet function WITH the Wii U; that way you won't take away sales from the 3DS, and you would boost the software sales of the Wii U and even potantially the Wii U itself.

It wouldn't really cut into profits though it would just offer more ways to play the same game. Like MH3U on Wii U doesn't cut into MH3U's profits on the 3DS ... it's the same game, Capcom makes the same money, it's just up to the consumer which version suits their needs better. 

On a tablet I think I'd probably just rework the layout so that it's just one screen, with some secondary touch functions. But it probably wouldn't require a ton of work, many 3DS games simply use the second screen for superfulous functionality. 

The risk is that the 3DS would stop selling entirely if the tablet had the same games, and why would you want to cut into those profits when you can take sales from the WIi U and in the same time boost the software sales for that very console? I still think that making a tablet that works with Wii U is a better idea than having 3DS ports... You could boost Wii U sales by taking away the gamepad, and thus cutting the price of the console, and if you have a Nintendo tablet it could function as a gamepad. $200 Wii U + $200 Tablet > $300 Wii U+gamepad...



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

superhippy420 on 17 January 2014
Soundwave said:
superhippy420 said:
I still don't think the Wii U's problems have anything to do with hardware specs or the tablet controller, but has everything to do with the lack of big 1st party games, and Iwata should be taking the blame for this. 3rd Party games have never sold / carried Nintendo's consoles, and they could have pretty much every 3rd party game out there and it still wouldn't matter. People want Nintendo games for their Nintendo Console. The "Wii" franchise (Sports,Fit,Play), Mario,Zelda,Mario Kart, Smash Bros,Donkey Kong,Animal Crossing. Metroid,Kirby,Starfox,F-Zero,Pikmin and all of their other franchises have always been 1 - 2 million sellers and none have ever moved consoles, but have been solid software sellers for Nintendo when their base is there. For Nintendo in their 1st full year to only release (of their big franchises) 2 rehashes (NSMBU,Wind Waker HD), and 1 semi-sequel(SM3DW) is pathetic. For as much as I love SM3DW, it should have been a brand spanking new Mario game that we have never seen before like SMB,SMW,SM64, Sunshine,and Galaxy. I do think Nintendo will do much better in 2014, but they better bring atleast 4 more games on top of Smash,Kart,DK,Bayonetta,X,and Hyrule Warriors. Also Wonderful 101 was a huge mistake, maybe with a big install base it would have done better, but to try to move consoles with it was a big miscalculation. The 3DS fell below expected sales, but it's still making Nintendo money no doubt. It's biggest problem is it has not found its NSMB/Nintendogs/Brain Age to really pump up sales, but thats what happens when you don't take a few chances with some new IP's.


The whole "we're going to make a console almost one full generation behind the others!" formula just doesn't work without a blockbuster type of controller to go with it. 

That's where that whole house of cards falls apart. 

Your average consumer couldnt care less about hardware specs.  If that was the Case Vita would be outselling the 3DS by 40 million, the Gamecube would have destroyed the PS2, and Sega would still be a console manufacture.    The house of cards fell apart when Nintendo refused to speed up game development.  Pikmin was delayed, Donkey Kong was delayed, Wii Fit U was delayed, Mario Kart has taken too long, and Smash Bros has taken way too long.  I love Sakurai, but to have him balanced Smash Bros by himself in 2014 is retarded.   I know that game is his baby, but let him manage a team, not do the thing by himself.  Iwata should be canned, the guy is running a gaming company with franchises / properties that sell themself and he is finding a way to screw it up.



Around the Network
Mr Puggsly on 17 January 2014



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly on 17 January 2014
Aerys said:
That shows 3rd party are important, even if some fans think otherwise, nintendo cant make profit on home console without 3rd party


The real problem is the tablet control. It pushed away casuals.

More 3rd party isn't going to bring the masses to Wii U.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

ZyroXZ2 on 17 January 2014
kowenicki said:
ZyroXZ2 said:
kowenicki said:
ZyroXZ2 said:
kowenicki said:
ZyroXZ2 said:
Hmmm, maybe I don't fully understand the financial jargon from the links, but if they posted a loss rather than a profit, couldn't a large portion of these losses actually be DEVELOPMENT costs?! We all know the 2014 schedule for Wii U is packed with both announced AND unannounced (or at least only acknowledged to exist, nothing has been shown) games being developed straight from Nintendo's pockets. If we know WHAT is causing the loss, it may not be as bad as it seems...

Think about it, what if they're posting a loss because 2014 is about to blow our minds with how much money they've been pouring into development of games during this 2013 fiscal year?!


its rather obvious wahts causing the loss.  The WiiU forecast has been slashed massively.

So they were expecting much higher revenus and profits on the back of the WiiU that is now not going to happen.

There is no way to make this look ok.  Its terrible.  The markets will kick them, although the stock is already poor.

The Wii U is still sold at a loss, no?  All the profits would have been made on selling MULTIPLE games per system (not just one), and since most Wii Us sold during the holidays are bundles, I kind of see each Wii U sold in which NO separate game is purchased as being a loss...  Hence, the Wii U selling even MORE, but NOT selling enough separate, unbundled games, would only have resulted in greater operating losses, right?

is it?  who says?

and the games (remeber, the majority are first party) are massive profit drivers.  if you arent selling WiiU's you arent selling games for it either.

You are reaching here, the most logical and reasonable conclusion is the results are down due to poor sales. 

I'm not reaching at all here.  There has been no updated to the cost of production of the Wii U, and though it naturally gets cheaper over time, it's still largely presumed to be sold at a loss.

http://n4g.com/news/1150824/wii-u-is-not-profitable-after-one-game-sale

Then, to make matters worse, they cave into the demand for a price drop, and drop the price $50.  This would naturally imply the console STILL remains a loss to sell.  Then they bundled it with NSMBU+NSLU (or even the WWHD bundle), giving initial buyers of those systems little-to-no reason to go out and buy TWO games (because one game doesn't make the system profitable).  I see each console selling at a loss right there, so IF the system had sold two or three times more, that could have potentially NEVER resulted in the profit forecast anyway.  Them selling lower than expected may not have been the source of such massive losses, which is WHY I've been conjecturing that there have been decisions to pump additional money into marketing and current development projects...


for pity sake

millions fewer WiiU sales expectd, and now millions fewer 3ds sales expected... but the loss is due to sofware development costs.

you are reaching, trust me.

I'm really not: http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=220598

Here's a portion I've copy and pasted from it:

"As for advertising expenses, and research and development expense forecasts, we made revisions to increase them by eight billion yen and 15 billion yen respectively from their forecasts made at the beginning of this fiscal year. We expect advertising expenses to increase due to the effect of the expenses incurred in foreign currencies to be converted into Japanese yen by using weaker yen rates. The estimated increase of research and development expenses is based on reflecting our ongoing enhancement of the development structure, and new research and development activities. These increases contributed to lowered estimated profit forecasts.
"

Edit: I think you're missing my overall point.  I HIGHLY doubt such a MASSIVE turn to losses is just "lower than expected sales".  I think everyone is so quick to jump on the Nintendo-doomed bandwagon that they simply point at low sales and say "see?! Nintendoomed because it's not selling enough!"...



Check out my entertainment gaming channel!
^^/
Soundwave on 17 January 2014
superhippy420 said:
Soundwave said:
superhippy420 said:
I still don't think the Wii U's problems have anything to do with hardware specs or the tablet controller, but has everything to do with the lack of big 1st party games, and Iwata should be taking the blame for this. 3rd Party games have never sold / carried Nintendo's consoles, and they could have pretty much every 3rd party game out there and it still wouldn't matter. People want Nintendo games for their Nintendo Console. The "Wii" franchise (Sports,Fit,Play), Mario,Zelda,Mario Kart, Smash Bros,Donkey Kong,Animal Crossing. Metroid,Kirby,Starfox,F-Zero,Pikmin and all of their other franchises have always been 1 - 2 million sellers and none have ever moved consoles, but have been solid software sellers for Nintendo when their base is there. For Nintendo in their 1st full year to only release (of their big franchises) 2 rehashes (NSMBU,Wind Waker HD), and 1 semi-sequel(SM3DW) is pathetic. For as much as I love SM3DW, it should have been a brand spanking new Mario game that we have never seen before like SMB,SMW,SM64, Sunshine,and Galaxy. I do think Nintendo will do much better in 2014, but they better bring atleast 4 more games on top of Smash,Kart,DK,Bayonetta,X,and Hyrule Warriors. Also Wonderful 101 was a huge mistake, maybe with a big install base it would have done better, but to try to move consoles with it was a big miscalculation. The 3DS fell below expected sales, but it's still making Nintendo money no doubt. It's biggest problem is it has not found its NSMB/Nintendogs/Brain Age to really pump up sales, but thats what happens when you don't take a few chances with some new IP's.


The whole "we're going to make a console almost one full generation behind the others!" formula just doesn't work without a blockbuster type of controller to go with it. 

That's where that whole house of cards falls apart. 

Your average consumer couldnt care less about hardware specs.  If that was the Case Vita would be outselling the 3DS by 40 million, the Gamecube would have destroyed the PS2, and Sega would still be a console manufacture.    The house of cards fell apart when Nintendo refused to speed up game development.  Pikmin was delayed, Donkey Kong was delayed, Wii Fit U was delayed, Mario Kart has taken too long, and Smash Bros has taken way too long.  I love Sakurai, but to have him balanced Smash Bros by himself in 2014 is retarded.   I know that game is his baby, but let him manage a team, not do the thing by himself.  Iwata should be canned, the guy is running a gaming company with franchises / properties that sell themself and he is finding a way to screw it up.

Specs do matter for consoles. Handhelds are a completely different business. The SNES would've been routed by the Genesis if Nintendo opted to just keep it at NES tech levels for examples. Third parties would've all just made games for the Genesis instead. 

The fact is the Wii U does actually have sequels to many of the top selling Wii games already

Wii Sports, Mario & Sonic, Wii Party, Wii Fit, New Super Mario Bros., and Mario Galaxy are six of the top 11 selling Wii titles, and they all have equivalent sequels/upgrades now available on the Wii U.  

Nintendo fans need to get over this "Smash Brothers will fix everything" excuse that gets used all the time. That didn't save the GameCube and the Wii never really needed Smash Bros. to sell like gangbusters. 



DanneSandin on 17 January 2014
ZyroXZ2 said:

I'm really not: http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=220598

Here's a portion I've copy and pasted from it:

"As for advertising expenses, and research and development expense forecasts, we made revisions to increase them by eight billion yen and 15 billion yen respectively from their forecasts made at the beginning of this fiscal year. We expect advertising expenses to increase due to the effect of the expenses incurred in foreign currencies to be converted into Japanese yen by using weaker yen rates. The estimated increase of research and development expenses is based on reflecting our ongoing enhancement of the development structure, and new research and development activities. These increases contributed to lowered estimated profit forecasts.
"

Edit: I think you're missing my overall point.  I HIGHLY doubt such a MASSIVE turn to losses is just "lower than expected sales".  I think everyone is so quick to jump on the Nintendo-doomed bandwagon that they simply point at low sales and say "see?! Nintendoomed because it's not selling enough!"...


My Gods! Cut the quote tree already!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.