Yah MS showed that a significant portion of their gamers would pay for online access. If people will pay then Sony would be silly to pass up free cash. Especially if that extra money allows Sony to keep improving PSN, which they have significantly.
| Sevengen said: O.K. Nem, since you don't want to reply (which was the right choice) I'll just use the contradiction in your last post to end this. Nem said, ".....You say they are different and cant be compared..." Nem first stated, "....What you are saying OP, is not correct. Why? Because you are comparing the wrong things." Now if by your own admission, and eventual understanding, I'm saying that they're different and can't be compared.. then I'm obviously not comparing them, like you first said, but rather stating the reasons a comparison between the two is flawed; which consequently leaves the opening in your first reply to me the prime example of the reading comprehension issue you have.. and further validates my contention that you didn't actually understand what I was saying to begin with but still chose to argue.. which is always a loss my man. Thanks for playing, enjoy the rest of your day here at Sevengen's post, the exits are easily accessible, don't forget to tip the maître d’, come back anytime we love serving you, and/or watching you get served. |
Although there does seem to be some miscommunication here, The point that Nem is trying to make is valid.
He is agreeing with you that it doesn't make sense to compare PS+ by itself because PS+ is an add on or accessory to Sonys online service where as Live IS Microsofts online service. But, he is saying that it makes sense to compare all of Sonys online service (PSN/PS+) to Xbox Live because they are both their respective companies entire online service (pertaining to game consoles). He is right in his assesment by the way and I'll be more than happy to debate that belief with you in my other posts (which despite having ample time to muster up a rebuttal you haven't managed to respond to yet).
Sevengen said:
|
I never said PSN was better than Xbox Live smart one. I personally think PSN is the logical choice for me which makes it my subjective choice. I stated that the Xbox is created around Xbox Live which is why if you dont have gold renders it pointless. Microsoft essentially locks you out of the experience if you dont pay up. Sony doesnt put you through the hassle. Most of the games at their core are tailor made for Xbox Live Gold anyway from first and second party. On Sony you can enjoy more single player experiences as well as the growing library of multiplayer. Thanks to the influence of Microsoft people are going to have to pay up to get multiplayer now on Sony.
As for your question as to why Sony is now charging, its obvious their financial woes had made them weary and any form of profitability had to become an option. Xbox Live is a pure profit enterprise. They've long since made their money back for that venture. Sony wants to make billions for something they give away for free too after risking so much and losing so much money on that risk. If Microsoft can convince a little over half of the people over its lifetime to sign up for Xbox Live the profitability is there right or wrong.
Microsoft hasnt convinced me that Xbox Live is truly a service much like free PSN. I can get all those things on my PC without paying a cent and forcing people to pay for Youtube streaming is highway robbery. PSN+ is a service by its very existence which is rentals and discounts. An OS that is online capable on a console you purchased at full price really doesnt prove too much to be a service. This makes MS smart. Create a closed format online os and charge people for proper use of the box they paid for. This is the exact reason Windows Live failed on PC. You cannot convince people to pay for the service unless they demand whats on the box. Microsoft demanding payment from PC gamers for a Windows Live and getting the reaction they did taught Microsoft a valuable lesson. You need a funneled audience. Thats like Apple forcing you to pay to use most of the things on the ipad after you've paid full price for the product.
One gives me a free game every now and then that is more than 3 years old the Other gives me loads of games that are usually less than 1 year old.
Done.
| Sevengen said: O.K. Nem, since you don't want to reply (which was the right choice) I'll just use the contradiction in your last post to end this. Nem said, ".....You say they are different and cant be compared..." Nem first stated, "....What you are saying OP, is not correct. Why? Because you are comparing the wrong things." Now if by your own admission, and eventual understanding, I'm saying that they're different and can't be compared.. then I'm obviously not comparing them, like you first said, but rather stating the reasons a comparison between the two is flawed; which consequently leaves the opening in your first reply to me the prime example of the reading comprehension issue you have.. and further validates my contention that you didn't actually understand what I was saying to begin with but still chose to argue.. which is always a loss my man. Thanks for playing, enjoy the rest of your day here at Sevengen's post, the exits are easily accessible, don't forget to tip the maître d’, come back anytime we love serving you, and/or watching you get served. |
Disclaimer: I dont live in the forums. I need sleep aswell, so be patient with the replies.
I find it funny how you claim me having comprehension issues when its the other way around. I already explained this, there is no contradiction.
I will remind you of your post here:
| Sevengen said: Just got done reading a fanboy article titled, 'PS+ puts Xbox live to shame' sheesh. seeing how I've come across an innumerable number of these arguments, figured I'd finally weigh-in and set people straight. PS+ is a game rental service, you pay the monthly fee, they tell you what games you can play for free.. and you get some other stuff too, stuff that no one ever really seems to talk about when they feel the mistaken need to compare the two... they just talk about the 'free' games. that about sums it up. Xbox Live is a social gaming network, you pay the fee, you get access to a completely connected and almost exhuastively interactive community hub that allows you see, talk to, spy on, and communicate with any other player as you see fit... and you get some other stuff too, stuff that you already pay for and can use on other devices but now have the ability to enjoy when you're not playing online. that about sums it up. stop comparing the two. one's a rental service. one's a gaming service. |
You say they arent comparable cause they are different services. I say that you assuming they are different services is wrong.
This part remember? Nem first stated, "....What you are saying OP, is not correct. Why? Because you are comparing the wrong things."
Do you understand? Comparing the wrong things, as in, saying they are both services that cant be comparable, is false. They are comparable cause PS+ doesnt exist without PSN.
They ARE comparable. You complain articles dont take that into account that PS+ comes with PSN and only compare the rental portion. That in itself might be true, but i still think you went around saying that in the most unclear manner.
Rental and coupon service. :)
Go Team Venture! I still don't get the Wii, PS Move, and Kinect.
Nem said:
Disclaimer: I dont live in the forums. I need sleep aswell, so be patient with the replies.
I will remind you of your post here:
This part remember? Nem first stated, "....What you are saying OP, is not correct. Why? Because you are comparing the wrong things." Do you understand? Comparing the wrong things, as in, saying they are both services that cant be comparable, is false. facepalm They are comparable cause PS+ doesnt exist without PSN. They ARE comparable. You complain articles dont take that into account that PS+ comes with PSN and only compare the rental portion. That in itself might be true, but i still think you went around saying that in the most unclear manner. |
||
Nem. You started by telling me that I wasn't correct, Why? because "I was comparing the wrong things."
In a subsequent post, you told me I wasn't comparing them because I see them as different services.
That's a contradiction Nem, you contradicting yourself.. an inconsistency in your very own argument and your understanding of the OP.
Nothing about what I said was unclear, you simply didn't read it for what it was and now you just wanna keep posting in a vain, silly attempt to prove you did. Well, if that were the case then there'd be no ambiguity in your arguement and you wouldn't have changed what you believed i was saying, as you did in later replies.
I can keep this going forever if you like. you're not going to get the last word. you were mistaken right outta the gate.. and you know that, just refuse to admit it ...typical internet forum posturing.
You wanna argue my point of view, my opinion, fine. do so... but at the very least, keep it respectful and understand that all this stuff is... is opinion. Don't start by telling me I'm wrong, disagree with me sure, don't tell me I'm wrong... tell me I'm comparing the wrong things and then later backtrack and say I'm not comparing them. And for the love of god man, if someone catches you by your own words, stand up, admit it.
Normando said:
Although there does seem to be some miscommunication here, The point that Nem is trying to make is valid. He is agreeing with you that it doesn't make sense to compare PS+ by itself because PS+ is an add on or accessory to Sonys online service where as Live IS Microsofts online service. But, he is saying that it makes sense to compare all of Sonys online service (PSN/PS+) to Xbox Live because they are both their respective companies entire online service (pertaining to game consoles). He is right in his assesment by the way and I'll be more than happy to debate that belief with you in my other posts (which despite having ample time to muster up a rebuttal you haven't managed to respond to yet). |
Normando, maybe I haven't responded to you because whatever your replies were, they either didn't attack me with blind confusion, as Nem's did... or stated a counter argument I found to be credible. (I'll have to go back and re-read what you put)
Someone stated that Xbox Live gold could be considered a rental service as your renting the ability to play games online. I was cool with that... decent point. I'm not going to debate someone that comes back with a thought-provoking reply.
As far Nem's goes, dude flat out misunderstood the OP.. and then wanted to argue about it. there's no miscommunication there. For miscommunication to actually take place, both parties have to share some culpability in the breakdown. If I'm the one who opens the thread, stating my own opinion, the ONLY way for things to be misunderstood would be if the readers don't grasp what I'm saying. That's on them, it's not like I was talking Latin.
and as I'm looking back over your post above, I'm starting to question your ability to figure some stuff out as well. I don't really care if Nem's saying that PS+ and PSN together as one, unified online service is comparable to Xbox Live Gold.. and neither should you.
That's not what my original post is even talking about. Nowhere in the opening thread do I mention PSN. Nowhere. I'm specifically speaking about PS+ and how people mistakenly want to compare it to xbox live gold.
see, that's the problem with fanboys, on either side, they take your argument... add to it, try and change it... and then use that as their rebuttal. lame.
you wanna argue, stick with what the opening discussion/argument is.
| Normando said: It's true that they are different. But PS+ is more than a rental service. You get 1Gb of cloud saving so you can access saved data on other PS3s, You get access to some pretty steep sales on PSN, and you get the full game trials that will let you play from where you left off if you decide to buy the game. The other big difference is what you get for free on PS that you have to pay for with Live. If you have a 360 Live is pretty much a must. If you have a PS3 than PS+ is an add on that if you play a lot of games can pretty quickly pay for itself. |
alright, caught your first post.
the first paragraph, I'm totally with ya'.
second paragraph... not so much, because you did what I just got done stating that fanboys do (not saying you are one.. completely)
I wasn't talking about PSN, so why bring it up.. oh that's right, this way you can say try and turn my initial post into something more resembling an argument that better suits your personal opinon.. not that of the OP.
you wanna respond to someone opinion, then do that by keeping their opinion and whatever counter you have that directly relates to it as the sole focus of your reply.
(feel like I'm talking to Nem here..)
It doesn't matter that PSN is free to game online while Live Gold charges a fee... that's not the issue that starts the thread, so it isn't the 'other' big difference, nowhere in my first post do I compare PSN with Gold. Nowhere.
What's with you guys?
| Sevengen said: Nem. You started by telling me that I wasn't correct, Why? because "I was comparing the wrong things." In a subsequent post, you told me I wasn't comparing them because I see them as different services. That's a contradiction Nem, you contradicting yourself.. an inconsistency in your very own argument and your understanding of the OP. Nothing about what I said was unclear, you simply didn't read it for what it was and now you just wanna keep posting in a vain, silly attempt to prove you did. Well, if that were the case then there'd be no ambiguity in your arguement and you wouldn't have changed what you believed i was saying, as you did in later replies. I can keep this going forever if you like. you're not going to get the last word. you were mistaken right outta the gate.. and you know that, just refuse to admit it ...typical internet forum posturing. You wanna argue my point of view, my opinion, fine. do so... but at the very least, keep it respectful and understand that all this stuff is... is opinion. Don't start by telling me I'm wrong, disagree with me sure, don't tell me I'm wrong... tell me I'm comparing the wrong things and then later backtrack and say I'm not comparing them. And for the love of god man, if someone catches you by your own words, stand up, admit it. |
Ok, one final time cause im tired of you trying to drag this into something annoying and repetitive. You compared the wrong things. You cant compare PS+ and Xbox live and say they are different services when PS+ doesnt exist without PSN. You made a simple statement: PS+ is a renting service and Xbox live is a gaming service so they cant be compared. I set out to prove to you they are comparable. I am right. To specify even further, you say PS+ is a renting service, that is incorrect. Its a gaming service just like Xbox with a component or pack that includes renting of select digital goods. Its not even comparable to regular renting services because you cant choose what it is you are renting. PS+ is not a renting service, its a gaming service premium. So, yes, once more i say: you compared the wrong things.
End of the day, if you want to say reviewers arent comparing services the way you want, go on and say that. Dont try to be a smart guy and say they arent comparable, cause you might end up saying comething that isnt quite accurate. Oh and you can reply to this if you want. I dont care about the "final word" at all. I dont think there will be any further progress on this debate.
For what is worth, i agree with the point you were making about article writers in general. Hope you can make a consistant post without any questionable claims next time so we can focus on the point at hand. :)
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