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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo Q1 Earnings July 31st (Results Inside - Profit)

Soundwave on 30 July 2013
Dunban67 said:
I think the pressure to get to short term profitability is one of the big challenges Nintendo has had lately- When you launch new consoles (3DS, then Wii U) , those consoles need huge investment- not just for the console alone but for marketing and for games- until the wii U has been successfully launched, Nintendo needs to be spending money making games and buying games (among other things) for the Wii U-

Gaming is a cylycle business if there ever was one- but Nintendo was able to go many years w out a losing Quarter - so the losses of recent years are not sitting well w its investors- but todays market is different than it was in past console generations- I don t think any of the Big 3 can expect to launch a console w out losing money over the relative short term in order to make it long term-

If Nintendo had the resources to continue supporting the Wii (at least to some extent) over the last 2+ years they would still be selling almost as much software as the X360 and PS3 are today- after all the Wii has sold 100 million +/- consoles - instead of continued support for a 100 million consoles via making more games for it ( I am sure they are much cheaper to make for the wii aslo) they put those resources into making games for the wii U- which has less than 3.5 million consoles - not only that - they did not get those games out quick enough for the launch window-

my point is- Nintendo has been trying very hard to turn a profit Q to Q at a time they should be investing $$ s like crazy for at least 3 platforms (3DS, Wii and WII-U) - short term their losses would have been greater but longer term they would have made more money and been able to maintain a more diverse revenue stream

Nintendo makes money selling their own games- IMO it would be hard for them to make TOO MANY so long as they continued to be of similar quality as they typically produce-

If NSMU and Nintendoland were released on the wii (among others) in 2011/2012 and Metroid and Mario Galaxy 3 (among others) were released on the wii U in 2013 they would be hitting on all cylynders as soon as 2nd half 2013 - if they continued to support the Wii over the last 2 -3 years the profits from those software sales could be funding a large % of the extra resources spent on the Wii U to get more games out-

Nintendo, its board and shareholders are not used to losing money AT ALL - so I think it is difficult for them to get "the green light" to take the short term losses needed to get their various consoles launched and maintain their existing consoles- getting 3rd party support would help them too but that takes money as well


The root of most of their problems really does stem from their reluctance to increase their development capability. Yes, sure they have added staff, but it's pretty much offset by the fact that the 3DS/Wii U require more developer resources, so in effect they're not getting any more games and that's unacceptable.

Losing Rare and not replacing them with a comparable Western studio that could output at least 1 console title per year was a mistake IMO.



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twilight_link on 30 July 2013
Soundwave said:
Dunban67 said:
I think the pressure to get to short term profitability is one of the big challenges Nintendo has had lately- When you launch new consoles (3DS, then Wii U) , those consoles need huge investment- not just for the console alone but for marketing and for games- until the wii U has been successfully launched, Nintendo needs to be spending money making games and buying games (among other things) for the Wii U-

Gaming is a cylycle business if there ever was one- but Nintendo was able to go many years w out a losing Quarter - so the losses of recent years are not sitting well w its investors- but todays market is different than it was in past console generations- I don t think any of the Big 3 can expect to launch a console w out losing money over the relative short term in order to make it long term-

If Nintendo had the resources to continue supporting the Wii (at least to some extent) over the last 2+ years they would still be selling almost as much software as the X360 and PS3 are today- after all the Wii has sold 100 million +/- consoles - instead of continued support for a 100 million consoles via making more games for it ( I am sure they are much cheaper to make for the wii aslo) they put those resources into making games for the wii U- which has less than 3.5 million consoles - not only that - they did not get those games out quick enough for the launch window-

my point is- Nintendo has been trying very hard to turn a profit Q to Q at a time they should be investing $$ s like crazy for at least 3 platforms (3DS, Wii and WII-U) - short term their losses would have been greater but longer term they would have made more money and been able to maintain a more diverse revenue stream

Nintendo makes money selling their own games- IMO it would be hard for them to make TOO MANY so long as they continued to be of similar quality as they typically produce-

If NSMU and Nintendoland were released on the wii (among others) in 2011/2012 and Metroid and Mario Galaxy 3 (among others) were released on the wii U in 2013 they would be hitting on all cylynders as soon as 2nd half 2013 - if they continued to support the Wii over the last 2 -3 years the profits from those software sales could be funding a large % of the extra resources spent on the Wii U to get more games out-

Nintendo, its board and shareholders are not used to losing money AT ALL - so I think it is difficult for them to get "the green light" to take the short term losses needed to get their various consoles launched and maintain their existing consoles- getting 3rd party support would help them too but that takes money as well


The root of most of their problems really does stem from their reluctance to increase their development capability. Yes, sure they have added staff, but it's pretty much offset by the fact that the 3DS/Wii U require more developer resources, so in effect they're not getting any more games and that's unacceptable.

Losing Rare and not replacing them with a comparable Western studio that could output at least 1 console title per year was a mistake IMO.

Western developers are fickle and nothing more, Nintendo suffered this with both Rare and Retro bleeding talents constantly, similar SK and Factor 5.



Soundwave on 30 July 2013
twilight_link said:
Soundwave said:

The root of most of their problems really does stem from their reluctance to increase their development capability. Yes, sure they have added staff, but it's pretty much offset by the fact that the 3DS/Wii U require more developer resources, so in effect they're not getting any more games and that's unacceptable.

Losing Rare and not replacing them with a comparable Western studio that could output at least 1 console title per year was a mistake IMO.

Western developers are fickle and nothing more, Nintendo suffered this with both Rare and Retro bleeding talents constantly, similar SK and Factor 5.


Well the thing is you can't just cry about it and take your ball home because Western developers happen to have some more turnaround.

There are plenty of Western developers they could finance projects from like they do with Japanese companies such as Platinum Games and Mistwalker.

That was the other maddening thing is they greenlit all these "mid-tier" budget Japanese games like Takt of Magic, Pandora's Tower, Dynamic Slash, Line Attack Heroes, The Last Story, Disaster: Day of Crisis, etc. and then didn't bother to really push any of them or bring many of them to the West. And all of them pretty much bombed in Japan too. It's just like ... who were these games even made for? They didn't let Western consumers play half of them, and the Japanese didn't want any of them either.

I'd be willing to bet say a new Star Wars: Rogue Squadron game from Factor 5 would've outsold any of those on the Wii or Wii U, but they ignored Factor 5 when they were begging Nintendo to help them out.

~

Edit: Quote tree shortened by TruckOSaurus - Please refer to this post for Quote Tree Guidelines http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5379187



Dunban67 on 30 July 2013

Soundwave 20 minutes ago: says

"The root of most of their problems really does stem from their reluctance to increase their development capability. Yes, sure they have added staff, but it's pretty much offset by the fact that the 3DS/Wii U require more developer resources, so in effect they're not getting any more games and that's unacceptable.

Losing Rare and not replacing them with a comparable Western studio that could output at least 1 console title per year was a mistake IMO."


Dunaban67 says:

I agree w you Soundwave- The ironic aspect to it is Nintendo HAS THE MONEY- They have a bastion of a balance sheet- even though they are competing w huge companies like MSFT and Sony- they have the cash to fund these launches and extra development capacity- Nintendo may be in danger of putting out too many Mario platformers (among others) too close together on multiple consoles but they are in no danger of putting out too many games- they have tons of other IP s they could be developing for. They could take any number of their existing IP s and build them into franchises that could become the next Mario- or if not that big, the next Zelda or DK or the next Kirby etc....

Nintendo has cash, a great balance sheet, development talent and tons of IP to use to create value - instead they are often behind in development and feel the need to turn to the same proven franchises over and over-

I am NOT one who thinks Nintendo should go software only or go the IOS route- they could make and create huge amounts of $ s and stockholder equity with the assets they have now- they are just too" penny wise and pound foolish" at a time when the cycles of the gaming industry and the competition's willingness to aggressively use their own resources are too great to expect to be" in the black" every Q.

They could still be a relatively conservative company as they should be- but it is like they don t have enough confidence in their own abilities and resources to invest appropriately

FYI: for some reason I have never been able to respond to other post to post when I click on the "reply" tab- that is why I cut and paste and use the "quick reply"- I get an error message otherwise



TruckOSaurus on 30 July 2013
Soleron said:

I'm saying they don't look better from the videos I've seen. I don't care if the pixel count is eleven times more or something, it doesn't look like an improvement.

The jump from Mario Kart Wii to Mario Kart 8 is easily noticeable. MKWii was an average looking Wii game, MK8 is slick and beautiful.



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twilight_link on 30 July 2013
Soundwave said:
twilight_link said:

Western developers are fickle and nothing more, Nintendo suffered this with both Rare and Retro bleeding talents constantly, similar SK and Factor 5.


Well the thing is you can't just cry about it and take your ball home because Western developers happen to have some more turnaround.

There are plenty of Western developers they could finance projects from like they do with Japanese companies such as Platinum Games and Mistwalker.

That was the other maddening thing is they greenlit all these "mid-tier" budget Japanese games like Takt of Magic, Pandora's Tower, Dynamic Slash, Line Attack Heroes, The Last Story, Disaster: Day of Crisis, etc. and then didn't bother to really push any of them or bring many of them to the West. And all of them pretty much bombed in Japan too. It's just like ... who were these games even made for? They didn't let Western consumers play half of them, and the Japanese didn't want any of them either.

I'd be willing to bet say a new Star Wars: Rogue Squadron game from Factor 5 would've outsold any of those on the Wii or Wii U, but they ignored Factor 5 when they were begging Nintendo to help them out.

The problem is Iwata once publicly proclaimed that if someone is willing to bring exclusive games to WiiU then Nintendo can help them financially, so they try.

The games on your list are created to broaden portfolio of games on Wii, try new ideas or concepts, they bombed in Japan and this is why there was no or negligible interest publishing them in the west.

Smash Bros is great example the game was created solely for home market but due to success of the game in Japan it was released in west.

Perhaps Nintendo has no sympathy for beggars and traitors, I strongly share this sentiment with them.

~

Edit: Quote tree shortened by TruckOSaurus - Please refer to this post for Quote Tree Guidelines http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5379187



Soleron on 30 July 2013
TruckOSaurus said:
Soleron said:

I'm saying they don't look better from the videos I've seen. I don't care if the pixel count is eleven times more or something, it doesn't look like an improvement.

The jump from Mario Kart Wii to Mario Kart 8 is easily noticeable. MKWii was an average looking Wii game, MK8 is slick and beautiful.

I have an inability to see graphics better than Mario Sunshine.



Soundwave on 30 July 2013

Honestly if I was sitting in Iwata's position with the Wii U in early 2011, first off, I would've tailored the machine more to the needs of the Western market. Consoles are done in Japan, no point in bending over backwards to make a 33 watt console because it might make some Japanese housewife happy.

Star Wars: Rogue Squadron IV - Greenlit for Wii U launch. Good support title, Factor 5 can maybe push the system, highly likely to be profitable.

Soul Calibur Hyrule - Soul Calibur + Zelda characters in one fighting game using the existing SCV engine -- greenlit for Wii U launch. Highly likely to be profitable, fills a need at launch.

Both of the above are doable I think.

I'd also go big or go home with the third party collabs and offer Square-Enix the following deal -- Nintendo x Final Fantasy RPG series. A virtual lock to sell 7-10+ million every time out. In exchange Square-Enix agrees to FFVI and VII remakes for 3DS + Wii U. I think they bite as such a franchise could potentially be bigger than any FF, DQ, or Kingdom Hearts game worldwide.

Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem is nice, but how many Wii Us is that really supposed to sell? I'm fine with smaller collabs too, but you gotta get one that really can push hardware.

I'd tell Reggie to get off his butt and find the most interesting Western studio project they can find from a Western dev and secure the rights to it and finance its development.

Take a chance on one at least, maybe you find the next Halo or Uncharted developer just before they are breaking out. If development proceeds smoothly, then lock them in to a 3-4 game contract.

The deal with Platinum Games is great, but it's not nearly enough.



twilight_link on 30 July 2013
Soundwave said:

Honestly if I was sitting in Iwata's position with the Wii U in early 2011, first off, I would've tailored the machine more to the needs of the Western market. Consoles are done in Japan, no point in bending over backwards to make a 33 watt console because it might make some Japanese housewife happy.

Star Wars: Rogue Squadron IV - Greenlit for Wii U launch. Good support title, Factor 5 can maybe push the system, highly likely to be profitable.

Soul Calibur Hyrule - Soul Calibur + Zelda characters in one fighting game using the existing SCV engine -- greenlit for Wii U launch. Highly likely to be profitable, fills a need at launch.

Both of the above are doable I think.

I'd also go big or go home with the third party collabs and offer Square-Enix the following deal -- Nintendo x Final Fantasy RPG series. A virtual lock to sell 7-10+ million every time out. In exchange Square-Enix agrees to FFVI and VII remakes for 3DS + Wii U. I think they bite as such a franchise could potentially be bigger than any FF, DQ, or Kingdom Hearts game worldwide.

Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem is nice, but how many Wii Us is that really supposed to sell? I'm fine with smaller collabs too, but you gotta get one that really can push hardware.

I'd tell Reggie to get off his butt and find the most interest Western studio project they can find from a Western dev and secure the rights to it and finance its development.

Take a chance on one at least, maybe you find the next Halo or Uncharted developer just before they are breaking out. If development proceeds smoothly, then lock them in to a 3-4 game contract.

The deal with Platinum Games is great, but it's not nearly enough.

No this is not how things work for them, Nintendo is not follower, to follow some model or fortune forbid some trends is death sentence for them.

Halo or Uncharted, what a joke.

Square - Enix is finished with Nintendo they stopped support them, just look at 3DS currently dominant platform in Japan and their release list for 3DS is empty.

Begging for 3rd party support especially western 3rd party support is the way to hell for Nintendo.



Th3PANO on 30 July 2013
Soleron said:
Soundwave said:
Soleron said:
If this is also a loss, they need to start bringing individual game costs down. Miyamoto said Wii U games cost twice as much to make - that's not acceptable if they don't sell more for that investment. Lower the graphical quality to Wii level.


LOL, things like NSMBU and even DKC: TF are pretty close to that ... they look like Wii games in 720p.

You can't water down graphics much further.

Then which games were Miyamoto talking about for the doubled costs? 3D World doesn't look better than Galaxy, same with SSB and Kart..

The worst case is those games did cost more, but their art style is so bland it looks bad anyway.

get real. 3D World looks better from a graphical standpoint compared tog alaxy. And Mario Kart not looking better then the wii version? wtf man....