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Forums - Politics Discussion - What is Christian about American values and ideals like "The American Dream"?

KingofTrolls said:
theprof00 said:
There is nothing Christian about capitalism and there is nothing Christian about America or the government.
There isn't even anything Christian about the religious right, who are more concerned about keeping imaginary people alive (abortion) than actual people (capital punishment).


In capitalism

- u get paid for  work, nothing else. No job = no cash.

Who does not want to work, let him not eat.

Source: Second Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians, AD 3,10,53

Imaginary people ? No comment.

I believe it was also Stalin who also said you didn't eat if you didn't work.



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outlawauron said:
theprof00 said:
outlawauron said:
theprof00 said:
There is nothing Christian about capitalism and there is nothing Christian about America or the government.
There isn't even anything Christian about the religious right, who are more concerned about keeping imaginary people alive (abortion) than actual people (capital punishment).

This makes me sad prof.

Well, I don't want to get into that kind of debate anyway. Don't focus on that part only though, look at the next part too.

I don't really care this topic or debate. Just calling aborted babies imaginary people is incredibly depressing and sad.

What's sad to me is that people who are actually alive are being told what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

But, if you're going to continue this at all, please make sure that your next response includes how it's ok to kill people who are currently breathing. 



theprof00 said:
outlawauron said:
theprof00 said:
outlawauron said:
theprof00 said:
There is nothing Christian about capitalism and there is nothing Christian about America or the government.
There isn't even anything Christian about the religious right, who are more concerned about keeping imaginary people alive (abortion) than actual people (capital punishment).

This makes me sad prof.

Well, I don't want to get into that kind of debate anyway. Don't focus on that part only though, look at the next part too.

I don't really care this topic or debate. Just calling aborted babies imaginary people is incredibly depressing and sad.

What's sad to me is that people who are actually alive are being told what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

But, if you're going to continue this at all, please make sure that your next response includes how it's ok to kill people who are currently breathing. 

I said I didn't care about this topic or debate. If I had to guess, I imagine because the unborn child hasn't done any wrong whereas the person receiving capital punishment has been convicted a very serious crime (1st degree murder) and that has been deemed the appropriate punishment. I don't think anyone actually wants to kill people, but for a such a punishment to exist as a deterrent for murder.



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theprof00 said:
KingofTrolls said:
theprof00 said:
There is nothing Christian about capitalism and there is nothing Christian about America or the government.
There isn't even anything Christian about the religious right, who are more concerned about keeping imaginary people alive (abortion) than actual people (capital punishment).


In capitalism

- u get paid for  work, nothing else. No job = no cash.

Who does not want to work, let him not eat.

Source: Second Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians, AD 3,10,53

Imaginary people ? No comment.

Your understanding of capitalism is sorely lacking.
The idea that people who work, eat, works in ANY government.
Yet our government has food stamps, care for people who cannot work, and we also have people who make money doing nothing more than having a webcam on them while they live.

And capital punishment? Don't just cherrypick the things YOU want to talk about. The dirty truth isn't meant to be ignored.

Abortion is a death sentence for no reason without guilt.

Capital punishment is another thing - killing people is the most easy way to solve problems, but many ppl thinks this is fair and justice. Of course there is no comparison in capital punishment in USA and for example China. This can be used for the purposes of deterrence and prevention, there is no desire for revenge. but that's a cold calculation on human life, the profit and loss account. I do not support it, but many people do. If ppl accept it, I must just deal with it.



uh, some people are born Christian but don't really practice it or entirely give up on the religion in adulthood, but I guess they are still Christians by birth?

Not to mention that the United States is a country where choosing your religion(or none at all) is by free-will, sure, the country has more Christians than anything else, but that's not what drives the country as the law > religious belief in the courts when it comes to crime cases(civil is different.)

I don't have a religion and I don't give two shits about them, but I dare say that I have more American(USA anyways, calling the USA as America is much too egoistic IMO) value than most fuckers that live in the USA these days because I don't point fingers and toss blames.

Also, there is no dream when this is happening more and more, it's fucking bullshit.



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KingofTrolls said:
theprof00 said:
KingofTrolls said:
theprof00 said:
There is nothing Christian about capitalism and there is nothing Christian about America or the government.
There isn't even anything Christian about the religious right, who are more concerned about keeping imaginary people alive (abortion) than actual people (capital punishment).


In capitalism

- u get paid for  work, nothing else. No job = no cash.

Who does not want to work, let him not eat.

Source: Second Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians, AD 3,10,53

Imaginary people ? No comment.

Your understanding of capitalism is sorely lacking.
The idea that people who work, eat, works in ANY government.
Yet our government has food stamps, care for people who cannot work, and we also have people who make money doing nothing more than having a webcam on them while they live.

And capital punishment? Don't just cherrypick the things YOU want to talk about. The dirty truth isn't meant to be ignored.

Abortion is a death sentence for no reason without guilt.

Capital punishment is another thing - killing people is the most easy way to solve problems, but many ppl thinks this is fair and justice. Of course there is no comparison in capital punishment in USA and for example China. This can be used for the purposes of deterrence and prevention, there is no desire for revenge. but that's a cold calculation on human life, the profit and loss account. I do not support it, but many people do. If ppl accept it, I must just deal with it.

Oh I see, so an institution of men can calculate human life based on profit and loss, but a woman does not. Glad you agree with me.

Abortion is another thing - abortion is the most easy way to solve problems, but many ppl thinks this is fair and justice. Of course there is no comparison in abortion in USA and for example China. This can be used for the purposes of deterrence and prevention, there is no desire for revenge. but that's a cold calculation on human life, the profit and loss account. I do not support it, but many people do. If ppl accept it, I must just deal with it.

deal with it then.



richardhutnik said:
snyps said:
richardhutnik said:

 

* Enshrinement of the U.S Constitution as some divine instrument: One can argue that the U.S Constitution is a fine work, and one of the best constitutions ever made.  But, go among Tea Party folks, and it is seen as handed down by Jesus, on part with the Bible.  So, exactly how is a work which was created heavily by non-Christian deists exactly Christian?


You had me going there I thought this was a serious topic.  I mean "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" a divine instrument handed down by Jesus.  

Edit: wait Jesus would be for secularism.  He was murdered for standing against a religious state.

It would be interesting if I was joking, but I am not with this.  Check out this:

http://jonmcnaughton.com/content/ZoomDetailPages/OneNationUnderGod.html

The artist shows Jesus holding out the Constitution.  Yes, there are some who think this.  This is what I had in mind.  Among Tea Party folk (some) the Consitution is made out to be some sort of divine instrument.

The only thing Devine about the constitution is it makes clear that our rights are natural rights from our creator. That our rights do not come from law or government but exist naturally.  Because god is perfectly free and so we are perfectly free.  I think Jesus of Nazareth would have understood this,  but the few who think he crafted our documents are ignorable.



Btw @richard

Good work on th op. I found it mostly interesting and you took the time to point out many hypocrisies in the "christian" American psyche.



KingofTrolls said:
What is Christian about American ideals and American Dream ?
- law - do not kill, do not steal, do not betrayal,etc.
- morality - help others, be useful, love others, be honest,be free but also care about another person freedom, dont break their law
American Dream - improve urself to perfection, build ur property just with ur poor own hands, in legal ways.
Its all about christianity.Even if u deny it with ur arms and legs.


I dislike you already. And it's not just because you seem to like one of my least favorite ponies.



Love and tolerate.

Salnax said:
KingofTrolls said:
What is Christian about American ideals and American Dream ?
- law - do not kill, do not steal, do not betrayal,etc.
- morality - help others, be useful, love others, be honest,be free but also care about another person freedom, dont break their law
American Dream - improve urself to perfection, build ur property just with ur poor own hands, in legal ways.
Its all about christianity.Even if u deny it with ur arms and legs.


I dislike you already. And it's not just because you seem to like one of my least favorite ponies.


Cmon bro, show what hurts u. Im sure we can fix this.