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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The real reason Fez isn't on Nintendo platforms

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_crazy_man_ said:
spurgeonryan said:
JazzB1987 said:
What is a Fez?

Have you ever seen Doctor Who? Fez'zzzzz are cool!

I think your statement is the real reason why fez is not on This sistem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvWYw0CnuSI
  

Needed to be done.

+

famousringo said:
JazzB1987 said:
What is a Fez?






So you guys basically tell me I will never have the pleasure of experiencing this?:



Well....

I think I can live with that.



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theRepublic said:
Mr Khan said:
pokoko said:
Another one for the Nintendo hate list, huh?

As for Greenlight, there are plenty of valid criticisms, but the project had good intentions. Even Steam has said that it's not working out the way they wanted. They've learned that people often vote for some pretty stupid reasons. Greenlight probably won't be around much longer, I would imagine.

In contrast, Nintendo's restrictions were just messed up. They were the results of apathy and arrogance toward the indie community. I have no idea how anyone could argue otherwise. It was a big, fat, "we got Mario and Wii Fit, we don't need you."

The threshold for making money back was super-low, for any game of any competence whatsoever. It was a mean way to thrust the developers up against the acid test of a game's appeal, that's for certain, and there were other problems that were purely Nintendo's fault (developer needs an office, developer can't publish outside their home country), but the sales threshold thing was an attempt to keep out the riff-raff.

 

Seems pretty low to me.

"North America
If game is over 16MB - 6,000 units
If game is under 16MB - 4,000 units

Europe
If game is over 16MB - 3,000 units
If game is under 16MB - 2,000 units"

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2009/04/wiiware_sales_targets_more_details_emerge

 

Let's suppose you're a one-man developer who put out a 40MB game in NA and sold 5900 copies at $10 a piece. Without the threshold you would have earned $41,300, enough for one adult to live for a year. But with the threshold, you see $0, and have to move back in with your parents while Nintendo pockets forty grand to pay for servers.

Spending a year on a game that doesn't take off hurts. Spending a year on a game and getting nothing at all is just savage. It only works if a publisher is backing your efforts (ie, you aren't actually an indie).

None of this changes the fact that Phil Fish is a total douchebag. Which is sad, because I would buy the special edition Fez Wii U that JazzB1987 mocked up.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

pokoko said:

First, you're going to have to back up your claim that Steam is anywhere close to being as bad as Nintendo was.  As far as I can see, it's not.

Simon Roth has worked on indie hits such as Frozen Synapse and is currently developing his first solo title - which he plans to eventually submit to Greenlight in the future. "Greenlight is a brilliant idea," says Simon. "Beforehand, in my opinion, the Steam approval process was somewhat broken, opaque and counter intuitive."  http://www.videogamer.com/features/article/steam_greenlight_what_do_developers_really_think.html

 Steam's problem is that they get more games asking for entry than they can handle.  The intention with Greenlight was not only to filter out some of the spam but to give developers feedback directly from the fans.  The main problem so far is that the fans, generally speaking, kind of suck.

"Valve gave the gaming community a chance with Greenlight," says Strongman Games founder Erlend Grefsrud, pointing out that Valve is under no obligation to offer a 'free ride' to anyone. That it did so originally should be an important factor in Valve's defence and should help highlight that the real issue isn't some classist debate over the relative value of $100.

"Valve launched Greenlight for free, [but] the community wasn't responsible enough to moderate itself," says Erlend. "If people were different, Greenlight would not need a fee. But they aren't, so it does."  http://www.videogamer.com/features/article/steam_greenlight_what_do_developers_really_think.html

Besides that, you're comparing a system that just launched recently to something that Nintendo just now fixed.  You're also trying to put words in my mouth, as I never said anything about 'malice'.  I never even said I supported what the guy in the OP said, as I've given Nintendo props elsewhere for their efforts.  What I've had issue with in this thread is the vilification of Steam in order to make Nintendo look good.  Not only are they in much different situations, with Steam being a much, much smaller company that gets many times the submissions that Nintendo does, but the idea that Greenlight was born of the same kind of corporate apathy as some of Nintendo's more notorious restrictions is just ludicrous.

In short, I find the twitter arguments of both people in the OP to be childish.

No, I don't have to back up that claim, because I'm not the one who made it. All I see above is evidence that Greenlight sounded like a good idea on paper, but doesn't work in application. Now consider Nintendo's eShop (which launched almost two years ago on 3DS, not "just now"), which is doing everything right that Greenlight is doing wrong.

Don't misunderstand any part of this thread. Steam is outstanding. Greenlight is the problem. Valve is not as small as you think they are; they built the best digital distribution service on PC, basically the iTunes store of video games, and they're preparing to launch hardware.

None of this changes the fact that it does no one any good to hold a grudge against Nintendo for their Wii-era policies. They've created a very beneficial platform for indie developers, so when an indie developer declines to use it out of spite, it's disrespectful to indie devs who are seeing success on the platform. Nintendo hurt his pride and he won't forgive them. It is, as you said, childish.



JazzB1987 said:
What is a Fez?


I think it's a kind of hat.

he does not like money, that's why he does not want to put his game on Nintendo platforms


what's so special about this dude and his game anyway?



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

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To be honest... I don't blame this guy. Think about it Nintendo has a History of treating inde/3rd party DEVS like shit so why should they care for them I mean Nintendo been digging there hole deep thru out these years with them now that they fell in that hole they want them to help them out...? If I was them I'll walk right pass... And they are it's just the way it is... >.<



TechXIII: Listen To Our Story.

the_dengle said:

Nintendo made a mistake seven years ago.

Five. WiiWare launched in 2008.

Not that it really matters... >_>

pokoko said:

First, you're going to have to back up your claim that Steam is anywhere close to being as bad as Nintendo was.  As far as I can see, it's not.

Simon Roth has worked on indie hits such as Frozen Synapse and is currently developing his first solo title - which he plans to eventually submit to Greenlight in the future. "Greenlight is a brilliant idea," says Simon. "Beforehand, in my opinion, the Steam approval process was somewhat broken, opaque and counter intuitive."  http://www.videogamer.com/features/article/steam_greenlight_what_do_developers_really_think.html

 Steam's problem is that they get more games asking for entry than they can handle.  The intention with Greenlight was not only to filter out some of the spam but to give developers feedback directly from the fans.  The main problem so far is that the fans, generally speaking, kind of suck.

"Valve gave the gaming community a chance with Greenlight," says Strongman Games founder Erlend Grefsrud, pointing out that Valve is under no obligation to offer a 'free ride' to anyone. That it did so originally should be an important factor in Valve's defence and should help highlight that the real issue isn't some classist debate over the relative value of $100.

"Valve launched Greenlight for free, [but] the community wasn't responsible enough to moderate itself," says Erlend. "If people were different, Greenlight would not need a fee. But they aren't, so it does."  http://www.videogamer.com/features/article/steam_greenlight_what_do_developers_really_think.html

Besides that, you're comparing a system that just launched recently to something that Nintendo just now fixed.  You're also trying to put words in my mouth, as I never said anything about 'malice'.  I never even said I supported what the guy in the OP said, as I've given Nintendo props elsewhere for their efforts.  What I've had issue with in this thread is the vilification of Steam in order to make Nintendo look good.  Not only are they in much different situations, with Steam being a much, much smaller company that gets many times the submissions that Nintendo does, but the idea that Greenlight was born of the same kind of corporate apathy as some of Nintendo's more notorious restrictions is just ludicrous.

You seem, to me, to be employing something of a double-standard here. Or at least, in trying to assert that Greenlight isn't the bogeyman it's made out to be, you're swinging way too far in the opposite direction. Greenlight's weakness stems from the fact that Valve steps back and does the absolute bare minimum for deciding what goes on Steam. That strikes me as far more apathetic than WiiWare's requirements that developers demonstrate some seriousness about developing and selling their games. Even the third quote you include, while superficially defending the service, reads more like a slamming indictment of Valve's apathy.

You can't even use the size excuse: Valve is more than a tenth of Nintendo's size, while developing and publishing far, far, far fewer games. Steam is Valve's primary moneymaker: WiiWare was nowhere near Nintendo's top priority. So why is it then that Valve was the company that decided it couldn't be fussed to properly monitor its own bread-and-butter, and simply threw the barnyard doors open? Greenlight isn't even really a "system that just launched": by Valve's own admission, it was an attempt for them to make their own lives easier by abandoning part of their quality control duties.



noname2200 said:
the_dengle said:

Nintendo made a mistake seven years ago.

Five. WiiWare launched in 2008.

Not that it really matters... >_>

Did it? My mistake. I assumed it launched alongside the Virtual Console.



famousringo said:
theRepublic said:
Mr Khan said:
pokoko said:
Another one for the Nintendo hate list, huh?

As for Greenlight, there are plenty of valid criticisms, but the project had good intentions. Even Steam has said that it's not working out the way they wanted. They've learned that people often vote for some pretty stupid reasons. Greenlight probably won't be around much longer, I would imagine.

In contrast, Nintendo's restrictions were just messed up. They were the results of apathy and arrogance toward the indie community. I have no idea how anyone could argue otherwise. It was a big, fat, "we got Mario and Wii Fit, we don't need you."

The threshold for making money back was super-low, for any game of any competence whatsoever. It was a mean way to thrust the developers up against the acid test of a game's appeal, that's for certain, and there were other problems that were purely Nintendo's fault (developer needs an office, developer can't publish outside their home country), but the sales threshold thing was an attempt to keep out the riff-raff.

 

Seems pretty low to me.

"North America
If game is over 16MB - 6,000 units
If game is under 16MB - 4,000 units

Europe
If game is over 16MB - 3,000 units
If game is under 16MB - 2,000 units"

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2009/04/wiiware_sales_targets_more_details_emerge

 

Let's suppose you're a one-man developer who put out a 40MB game in NA and sold 5900 copies at $10 a piece. Without the threshold you would have earned $41,300, enough for one adult to live for a year. But with the threshold, you see $0, and have to move back in with your parents while Nintendo pockets forty grand to pay for servers.

Spending a year on a game that doesn't take off hurts. Spending a year on a game and getting nothing at all is just savage. It only works if a publisher is backing your efforts (ie, you aren't actually an indie).

None of this changes the fact that Phil Fish is a total douchebag. Which is sad, because I would buy the special edition Fez Wii U that JazzB1987 mocked up.

Oh, don't get me wrong.  It is certainly not ideal, and the removal of the limit is great.

But if your game can't move 4,000 or 6,000 units, I can't help but think you royally messed up somewhere.

EDIT: It is actually a 65/35 split in favor of the developer, but that does not change your point.  Just the math.



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