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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony needs to drop Dust 514 and create a shooter from scratch

raygun on 06 January 2013

So what do you guys think of Starhawk? I just played the single player, and a little multiplayer, and liked it a lot. It has a Unreal Tournament feel to it, but better since the hawks are also mechs, and you can call down bunkers, walls, vehicles, shields, etc. which gives it some rts elements. I haven't played Halo, but enjoyed Killzone 3 ( with move and in 3d), and played a lot of COD. In COD it seems you die quicker, sometimes in just seconds, and then respond quicker also. Maybe that quickness is what becomes addictive.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 06 January 2013
richardhutnik said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
richardhutnik said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Im sorry, but I have Halo and I have seen dust. I would rather pay full price for Halo than to waste my time with Dust for free in a serious way. I love the concept, but I dont think console gamers are ready for it yet and Sony needs to warm them up with a top notch online shooter before the MMO comes. Microsoft can handle that because they've prepared 360 gamers for it. Microsofts strongest genre is the FPS genre and they will continue to dominate if Sony doesnt pay attention.

So tried full bore with Resistance and Killzone.  These are both two shooters from scratch.  What do you think Sony can do that is new, unique, and will generate interest?  They also had Socom, MAG, and heck throw in Twisted Metal and another one I am forgetting.

So, how did Dust get mucked up?  I was under the impression it was going to be promising.  

After all these attempts, I am curious why you think Sony can end up pulling off a relevant FPS of interest.


Sony is going to for gritty movie quality, which people are not ready for yet. That and Killzone isnt a twitchy shooter. Even the knifing takes more skill than Halo or COD. Halo has mass market appeal because it isnt realistic, but rather like Mass Effect in a sci-fi starship troopers kind of way. That and their main protagonist has never shown his face, so people have an allure and comfort about him. With Sonys characters in Killzone and Resistance its like watching a dark movie rather than wild space marine action which Americans seem to grativtate to so well. Sony can get the perfect FPS, they just need to land on it and Guerilla need to be involved in it because they have grown as an FPS company. If Sony Santamonica, some old bungie workers, Crytek and others formed with Guerilla we could have a huge hit on our hands. Santa Monica are like Rare, they seem to be good at almost any genre they touch. Microsoft stumbled upon the Halo franchise and it saved them. Sony doesnt need to stumble upon something, they need to pay attention to the competition properly and create a shooter that sets multiplayer standards and focuses on community. These are the major things that make COD and Halo so popular. 

Why do you think that anyone is going to buy a PS3 exclusive that is like Call of Duty, even if it is space marines?  I think you are overestimating demand THIS late in the game, for an FPS you describe, being anything on the PS3.  MAYBE the PS4 cn get what you describe, and it be a launch one, and MAYBE it would work.  But i doubt it at this point.

You're kidding me right?  The PS3's COD sales are on par with the 360's so people are buying the American military games just  fine. KZ2's controls are more realistic than COD and so is the weapon weight. KZ3's controls were quickened to be a little like COD. The 360 is no longer the lone shooter console, it just has the more popular ones with more focus on community. Sony needs this whether its got space marines or not?



Dodece on 06 January 2013
richardhutnik said:
Dodece said:
@OP

While I agree with the gist of your sentiment. That Sony needs to find a answer for Halo, and that they need to get their shit in gear right now. I feel your solution is wanting, because it doesn't address the real problem. Namely that Senior management that is responsible for giving the go ahead on projects is either incompetent, unimaginative, or in all likelihood far too provincially minded. No amount of money, or reputable talent will ever overcome straight up bad taste, or bad direction.

I really think it is a problem with provincial thinking. The stories for both Killzone and Resistance read like they came straight out of Anime. Like someone was trying to create a concept that a Japanese executive might be able to relate enough to that they might sign off on a game. That said it is really to the developers credit that the games turned out as well as they did. In spite of such a obvious handicap out of the gate.

I think you probably have to understand why Rambo First Blood was a pretty cool fucking movie to appreciate what it is that North American audiences want. Anything that doesn't stem from that sentiment isn't likely to be a huge success, and anyone who doesn't think that movie is cool. Shouldn't be making choices about what the North American audience wants.

Why does Sony need to find an answer to an FPS franchise that isn't even the top console franchise at this point?  Besides this, exactly what shape and form does a Halo killer by Sony take this late in the game?

To answer your first question. Halo is a monstrous franchise, and it affects sales accordingly. It grants Microsoft a massive amount of name recognition. Halo is not just a game series. It is a series of books, childrens toys, comics, and films. Sony needs a franchise like that, and being in the most popular genre in North America helps with that. On the game side of things Halo isn't any kind of slouch either. It offers up a counter point to Call of Duty, and gives the library a serious edge in the depth department. Sony needs a franchise like Halo on both accounts.

As for your second question. If I were advising Sony on developing a franchise to fill this role. I would recommend that they take a look at creating a game based on their Roughneck animated television series. Which was set in the Starship Troopers Universe, but deviated in many significant ways from the feature films, and the books. Even if they couldn't secure the license. The concept was incredibly strong. Anyway that series had a strong fan base, and it had, and still has a very strong cult following. Even if Sony wants something that is entirely their own. The concept can be reworked into something that directly answer Halo.

By the way if you haven't seen the series I am talking about. Go watch it for yourself, and tell me if you think they had something there. I think a game like that series could match Master Chief stride for stride. The writers for that show came up with a lot of novel combat scenarios, and a lot of good enemy concepts.



http://live.xbox.com/member/Dodece

richardhutnik on 07 January 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
richardhutnik said:

Why do you think that anyone is going to buy a PS3 exclusive that is like Call of Duty, even if it is space marines?  I think you are overestimating demand THIS late in the game, for an FPS you describe, being anything on the PS3.  MAYBE the PS4 cn get what you describe, and it be a launch one, and MAYBE it would work.  But i doubt it at this point.

You're kidding me right?  The PS3's COD sales are on par with the 360's so people are buying the American military games just  fine. KZ2's controls are more realistic than COD and so is the weapon weight. KZ3's controls were quickened to be a little like COD. The 360 is no longer the lone shooter console, it just has the more popular ones with more focus on community. Sony needs this whether its got space marines or not?

I am talking about trying to establish a new IP in a genre that is entrenched and heavily established.  The things is that things are so established, anyone into an FPS is likely to have already gotten a 360 and will play it there.  Sony has thrown FPS after FPS at the wall, and inone have stuck.  It is a matter of being late to the game.  As I said, MAYBE on the next Playstation they could do it.  But not now.



SnakeDrake on 07 January 2013
Dodece said:
richardhutnik said:
Dodece said:
@OP

While I agree with the gist of your sentiment. That Sony needs to find a answer for Halo, and that they need to get their shit in gear right now. I feel your solution is wanting, because it doesn't address the real problem. Namely that Senior management that is responsible for giving the go ahead on projects is either incompetent, unimaginative, or in all likelihood far too provincially minded. No amount of money, or reputable talent will ever overcome straight up bad taste, or bad direction.

I really think it is a problem with provincial thinking. The stories for both Killzone and Resistance read like they came straight out of Anime. Like someone was trying to create a concept that a Japanese executive might be able to relate enough to that they might sign off on a game. That said it is really to the developers credit that the games turned out as well as they did. In spite of such a obvious handicap out of the gate.

I think you probably have to understand why Rambo First Blood was a pretty cool fucking movie to appreciate what it is that North American audiences want. Anything that doesn't stem from that sentiment isn't likely to be a huge success, and anyone who doesn't think that movie is cool. Shouldn't be making choices about what the North American audience wants.

Why does Sony need to find an answer to an FPS franchise that isn't even the top console franchise at this point?  Besides this, exactly what shape and form does a Halo killer by Sony take this late in the game?

To answer your first question. Halo is a monstrous franchise, and it affects sales accordingly. It grants Microsoft a massive amount of name recognition. Halo is not just a game series. It is a series of books, childrens toys, comics, and films. Sony needs a franchise like that, and being in the most popular genre in North America helps with that. On the game side of things Halo isn't any kind of slouch either. It offers up a counter point to Call of Duty, and gives the library a serious edge in the depth department. Sony needs a franchise like Halo on both accounts.

As for your second question. If I were advising Sony on developing a franchise to fill this role. I would recommend that they take a look at creating a game based on their Roughneck animated television series. Which was set in the Starship Troopers Universe, but deviated in many significant ways from the feature films, and the books. Even if they couldn't secure the license. The concept was incredibly strong. Anyway that series had a strong fan base, and it had, and still has a very strong cult following. Even if Sony wants something that is entirely their own. The concept can be reworked into something that directly answer Halo.

By the way if you haven't seen the series I am talking about. Go watch it for yourself, and tell me if you think they had something there. I think a game like that series could match Master Chief stride for stride. The writers for that show came up with a lot of novel combat scenarios, and a lot of good enemy concepts.

I would really like a good Starship Troopers game.



 

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Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 on 07 January 2013

Wow.. I don't know but when people say "I'd rather play Halo 4 than Dust 514". I'm kind of offended. Just slightly.

Knowing that Dust is not really the gam that people expected. Its like people are implying that Halo 4 is a last resort FPS when its actually a high quality game.

Just sayin.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 07 January 2013
Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
Wow.. I don't know but when people say "I'd rather play Halo 4 than Dust 514". I'm kind of offended. Just slightly.

Knowing that Dust is not really the gam that people expected. Its like people are implying that Halo 4 is a last resort FPS when its actually a high quality game.

Just sayin.


I dont know if you're referring to me, but I love Halo 4. Sony is a desperate attempt has closed on Dust being for the PS3. I dont think that decision was smart, its graphics are outdated, the game is clunky looking, the models look like they came out of 2007. Its that situation of a free game where you get what you pay for. Sony needs to humble themselves find out what makes halo so great and work on that for a new title that might pose a threat. A intergrated team working with guerilla from other major fps studios wouldnt hurt either. Halo is what I like to call a "community shooter", but there are no shooters on the PS3 that truly bring the community together.



Scisca on 07 January 2013
deskpro2k3 said:
Killy_Vorkosigan said:
deskpro2k3 said:
Killy_Vorkosigan said:
deskpro2k3 said:
Scisca said:
I've played Dust beta a bit and I was disappointed. The game is for free, but I still don't feel like playing it. The whole idea behind it, the development of classes and stuff is really confusing, though I can see that it should be interesting once you get hold of it, but the gameplay itself is just... bad. Really, the original CoD4: MW is lightyears ahead. If I have a choice to play this for free or buy Halo 4/CoD, I'm gonna go with the latter. This idea behind the game is cool, but gameplay sucks.


The whole point of a closed beta is stress test, and to give constructive feedback. CCP give you only the essentials to play and test its features. Mind you, CCP is doing something that has never been done on consoles before.

Making complaints like this is premature right now because it is not the full game.. It would be better if you give CCP feedback of whatever displeases you, this goes to the OP too, because Dust 514 have their own forum to give feedback. It doesn't make any sense making a complaint thread here.

Imho : 

I've tryed Dust beta and I did not like it at all. At all. Bad graphics, bad gameplay, bad weapons, bad maps. I was EVE player for years, and I was excited at Dust, but the result is painful, not fun to play and fails to deliver. The EVE fitting system implemented to the suit is a very good idea though.

The problem with CCP, is that they take too much time to develop and modify their game. EVE took ten years to be what it is now, and modification took long to solve BPO T2, fleetbattle lag, POS warfare. A simple thing as the hostile flag in the system was originally a mod, that was implemented ingame a year after. 

Also, compared to what competition has to offer, CCP is leagues behind. And the decision to take it out of the PC crowd is another nail in the coffin.

 

 


Again I'll say it is in closed Beta... They give you only the essentials necessary to play and stress test... Don't expect pretty graphics because that is why there is still the NDA in effect.

Why is this so hard to understand. Do you think you're playing the final polished product?

Every complaint here has already been addressed in the Dust 514 Beta forum anyways.


If the product is not finished, don't release it, or it's worst.

I'll give you two example of my favorites games, that basically fucked up their launch

- The Witcher 2 : When it released, the kb controls were shit, lots of bugs, ctd... and they did the same than for the witcher 1, they had to rerelease a extended edition to get a game fully working. Result : TW2 was reviewed with an average of 6-7 when it should have been higher had they released the game with the quality of the extended edition.

- Hard Reset : At the moment of release, you couldn't tell which weapon you had, there was a lot of crash. These were all corrected in patches a few months after release, and then they release an free addon called Exile which added a lot more. But nobody reviews the game afterwards.

What I mean, is a game releasing in a unfinite state will be considered as shit forever. Just look at WarZ launch.


Dust 514 haven't released yet, that is why it is still in Closed Beta. If you do find any glitch and bugs then make sure to report it in the Beta forum.

Look, you just don't get it. Have you played this game? I haven't experienced a single glitch or bug, that's just not the problem this game has. The problem is this game is just bad to the bone! There is no fun playing it. There is no fun shooting, exploring maps, using turrets. The whole gameplay is just BAD.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Scisca on 07 January 2013
Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
Wow.. I don't know but when people say "I'd rather play Halo 4 than Dust 514". I'm kind of offended. Just slightly.

Knowing that Dust is not really the gam that people expected. Its like people are implying that Halo 4 is a last resort FPS when its actually a high quality game.

Just sayin.

Sony fanboys say they'd rather pay $60 for a Halo game than play a free to play game on PS3 and you feel offended? Damn, you get offended easily.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

sales2099 on 07 January 2013

From what I saw Dust needed improvements in gameplay and graphics. Not gonna do well IMO



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