By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - Playstation Vita Doom & Gloom talk with stop once the price is dropped

ironmanDX said:
theprof00 said:
 I think sony can do it. They just need to expand their lineup with some hit games.


CoD, Assassin's Creed, Uncharted, FIFA, Rayman, Mortal Kombat, Metal Gear Solid, Madden, Mavel Vs Capcom, Need for speed ,Harry Potter, Street Fighter X Tekken....

 

All these games in, how long has the Vita been out? Even a year yet? If games were a problem, it would hae been solved already.

Cod: bad

Assassins Creed: not great

Uncharted: better on PS3

Fifa: better on ps3

rayman: better on ps3

(same goes for the rest of the games in that list)

 

IMO, that is the problem. Sony says that the vita is like a portable ps3, and to prove it, they (and 3rd parties) release tons of games that are like ps3 game, just smaller and not quite as good. They need to make the vita stand out. Gravity Rush and Tearaway are a good start but only a start. Prove that the vita is something entirely different than a portable ps3. i personally do most of my handheld gaming a home, 10 feet from my PS3. Why should I pick up a vita when i have a PS3 sitting nearby?


Games are a problem, but the hole they have dug themselves into is an even bigger problem. If games come they will be marred by the "weeeeellll, its a vita game" attitude. Right now, hardware sales need to be pushed, and software sales arent doing the pushing. The bad post-launch from lack of games dug a hole and now it needs more than just games to pull out of it....



Around the Network
theprof00 said:
Ouch happy, you are a smart guy but your points get besmirched by your presentation of falsified details.
Activision didnt even produce call of duty vita, and the 8 mil konami made was likely rooted in 2m in dev costs.
Developing for vita is pretty easy and ports fly to it quickly and cheaply.

And stop just "picking numbers" out of the air like with warner brothers example.


Activision did publish Call of Duty, which means they did pay for the development of the game in hopes of turning a profit, and in the future they're (probably) going to be questioning whether that was a good choice ...

I would doubt your 2 million development costs ... 2 million would be a low budget Wii game not 4 games for a platform which (in general) has higher development costs than the Wii. A low budget PS-Vita game is (probably) around $2.5 million to develop, a typical game would be closer to $5 million, and a big budget game would be $10 to $20 million; needing (with marketing costs) in the range of 250,000 sales to break even on a low budget game, 500,000 to break even on a typical game, and 1 to 2 million to break even on a big budget game.

 

I don't think anyone could claim that the PS-Vita's software sales have been strong enough to justify solid support in the future ...

Edit: Consider that PS2/XBox/Gamecube/Wii games typically had 20 to 40 people working for 18 to 24 months to develop games, and XBox 360/PS3 games typically have 60 to 100 people working 24 to 36 months, and that the PS-Vita development falls somewhere between the two. Your "$2 million" konami estimate would mean that each game was produced by around 5 people in 1 year ... kind of a moronic estimate.



HappySqurriel said:

 

If sales doubled and the PS-Vita was able to consistently maintain those sales until the system was almost 7 years old the PS-Vita could break 50 million units; of course that requires 2 pretty gigantic "ifs". And the biggest problem with this as an assumption is that software sales do not support this kind of a recovery ...

Software sales are important because when publishers make money on a project it becomes easy to justify a similar project in the future, and when publishers lose money similar games do not get made. The Wii's low software development costs and relatively high software sales of low budget games meant that it was easy to justify continued development of these kinds of games, and (as a result) there was over 1,000 third party published games released for the system. Even factoring in under-tracked sales, with development and marketing costs the vast majority of third party efforts have probably lost money on the PS-Vita. Consider how Warner Bros. Interactive will look at the $40 Million (to pick a number) they spent developing 4 games for the PS-Vita and the (likely) $5 Million they received in revenues when they're considering producing the next Batman game for the PS-Vita; or Konami who has also released 4 PS-Vita games and (maybe) received $8 million in revenue.

Even Call of Duty, a game where it is understandable why people didn't buy it, will cause Activision to question whether it was wise to produce a PS-Vita version rather than a 3DS version when the 3DS version would (likely) cost less to produce and sell far more units. The answer to this question won't impact software releases in 2013 but it will certainly cause a huge impact in 2014 and beyond.

 

 

To simplify this, for every game that is released and sells poorly today (probably) 2 to 4 games will not be released for the PS-Vita in the future; and a price cut that happens 6 months from now will have a much smaller long term effect than a price cut today because of the negative impact of poor software sales on the system's future library.


Maths? In millions: 4 - 6 - 8 - 8 - 8 - 6 - 4 = 44 million in 7 years and that's topping out at 8 million for only 3 years. PSP was able to jump up to 14 million at one point, a lot can happen in 7 years and PS4's release could be a huge selling point for Vita due to connectivity and that's only one of the reasons Vita could turn around its sales slump.

Software, you mention Warner Brothers. So Mortal Kombat, a port with enhancements and DLC included, sold 110k at an average price of lets say $20 because of price drops. That's $2.2 million and I don't see it going too much higher than that over the years. Now I'm not sure what it costs to port over and add a few features but I'd guess a small staff was able to use available code to muster up the content and in a very short development period.

Lego Batman 2 sold 60k at $30 yielding $1.8 million. This game is widely multiplat and Vita development time is short.

Lego Harry Potter 5-7 sold 30k at $20 yielding $600k. Same as above

Lego Lord of the Rings sold 10k at $40 yielding $400k. Same as above

Without including digital sales WB obtained $5 million in retail revenue for very low development cost(Good guess man). There is no way the aditional cost to release these games on Vita was $40 million though. The brunt of the cost is from making the game but placing it on an additonal device is not costly. Excluding the Vita for these 4 games would have left them with $5 less in revenue for their games.



Before the PS3 everyone was nice to me :(

HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
Ouch happy, you are a smart guy but your points get besmirched by your presentation of falsified details.
Activision didnt even produce call of duty vita, and the 8 mil konami made was likely rooted in 2m in dev costs.
Developing for vita is pretty easy and ports fly to it quickly and cheaply.

And stop just "picking numbers" out of the air like with warner brothers example.


Activision did publish Call of Duty, which means they did pay for the development of the game in hopes of turning a profit, and in the future they're (probably) going to be questioning whether that was a good choice ...

I would doubt your 2 million development costs ... 2 million would be a low budget Wii game not 4 games for a platform which (in general) has higher development costs than the Wii. A low budget PS-Vita game is (probably) around $2.5 million to develop, a typical game would be closer to $5 million, and a big budget game would be $10 to $20 million; needing (with marketing costs) in the range of 250,000 sales to break even on a low budget game, 500,000 to break even on a typical game, and 1 to 2 million to break even on a big budget game.

 

I don't think anyone could claim that the PS-Vita's software sales have been strong enough to justify solid support in the future ...

Edit: Consider that PS2/XBox/Gamecube/Wii games typically had 20 to 40 people working for 18 to 24 months to develop games, and XBox 360/PS3 games typically have 60 to 100 people working 24 to 36 months, and that the PS-Vita development falls somewhere between the two. Your "$2 million" konami estimate would mean that each game was produced by around 5 people in 1 year ... kind of a moronic estimate.

except cod was feveloped by nstigate, formerly nihilistic, who develops for sony. activision likely had extremely little involvement.

 

secondly, konami released a mahjong game, 3 ports, an ar game, and little kings story.thirdly, youre assuming konami is paying their devs 100k a year.





Oh and lastly, hardly ever do devs expect to turn a great profit on first year consoles.
The hige library of vita at launch was unexpected by everyone. Why? Because devs typically wait for install base to be bigger before investing.
And that's why there was such a huge library up front. Porting.