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Forums - Politics Discussion - Catalonian Independence?

DieAppleDie on 26 November 2012

Troll Whisperer, you are not basque
i am basque



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JEMC on 26 November 2012
Kynes said:
JEMC said:

Oh, I know that nobody tells the whole story, and that goes for both sides, and that some of the things that have been said are just simply stupid, but people is not as stupid as many believe (as the results of the elections have proved to Mas), and many already know that.

It's just that the relation between Spain and Catalonia has never been good, and lately (5-10 years) it's getting worse. And the polititians instead of trying to make peace are making things worse.

The cold true is that if Catalonia ever becomes independent, both Catalonia and Spain will have lots of troubles.

About the last phrase, this is something we can agree on.

On the rest, it seems that the most self government Catalonia has, the bigger the problems are. Ask Scotland, Corsica, Quebec, both parts of Belgium... if they would like to have the self government Catalonia or the Basques have. You have much more self government than any federal country, but there is something left, the judicial power. That's what your politicians want, to control it, and to keep the 4% rule that abides to any company that wants to work with the public sector there. I remember Maragall when he said to Mas "Your problem is called 3%", it seems that he was short by one point.

I know that many regions would like to have our political self government situation, but what about the financial one?

As I said, many people have voted with their wallets in mind, not the flags, and when the Spanish government doesn't give the money they have agreed to, then they are only making the problem worse.



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Troll_Whisperer on 26 November 2012
DieAppleDie said:
Troll Whisperer, you are not basque
i am basque


Euskaraz hitz egin nahi duzu? Denbora luze izan da niretzat Ingalaterran ta Japonian bizi izan nahiz eta, ta euskaldunzaharra ez naizelako.  Praktika apur bat ona da, euskara beste hizkuntzekin nahazten hasi naizelako eta ez dut hizkuntza galdu nahi.



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.

haxxiy on 26 November 2012
Troll_Whisperer said:
To be honest if we (Basques) ever gain independence I'd prefer if we wouldn't join the EU. I think we'd be better off with real independence, our own currency, etc. like Switzerland or Norway.

I also want to say it's sad that the oldest nation, with the oldest language alive in Europe is not allowed to decide what it wants be.


There's no such thing as an older or newer language. Their study should be interpreted under a dialetical aspect instead of something of means and ends, for they evolve and change as time passes. Basque evolved from proto-basque who in turn came from pre-proto-basque and so on. Every language spoken on Europe has a background as rich, if not much richer - since they were subject to the contact with way more cultures - than Basque. 



 

 

 

 

 

Kynes on 26 November 2012
JEMC said:
Kynes said:
JEMC said:

Oh, I know that nobody tells the whole story, and that goes for both sides, and that some of the things that have been said are just simply stupid, but people is not as stupid as many believe (as the results of the elections have proved to Mas), and many already know that.

It's just that the relation between Spain and Catalonia has never been good, and lately (5-10 years) it's getting worse. And the polititians instead of trying to make peace are making things worse.

The cold true is that if Catalonia ever becomes independent, both Catalonia and Spain will have lots of troubles.

About the last phrase, this is something we can agree on.

On the rest, it seems that the most self government Catalonia has, the bigger the problems are. Ask Scotland, Corsica, Quebec, both parts of Belgium... if they would like to have the self government Catalonia or the Basques have. You have much more self government than any federal country, but there is something left, the judicial power. That's what your politicians want, to control it, and to keep the 4% rule that abides to any company that wants to work with the public sector there. I remember Maragall when he said to Mas "Your problem is called 3%", it seems that he was short by one point.

I know that many regions would like to have our political self government situation, but what about the financial one?

As I said, many people have voted with their wallets in mind, not the flags, and when the Spanish government doesn't give the money they have agreed to, then they are only making the problem worse.

I can remember you something. The last financial pact was proposed by the Catalan government, so I don't think that your regional government has the moral power to ask for a change of the rules whenever they want. I would love a real federal system, where the regions tax their citizens and have to explain why they spend their money in stupidities instead of important things. The financial system we have in Spain is horrible, where the central government has to tax all the citizens, the regions are black holes, and they only ask for more money. All the problems are because Madrid hates us!



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Troll_Whisperer on 26 November 2012

 

haxxiy said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
To be honest if we (Basques) ever gain independence I'd prefer if we wouldn't join the EU. I think we'd be better off with real independence, our own currency, etc. like Switzerland or Norway.

I also want to say it's sad that the oldest nation, with the oldest language alive in Europe is not allowed to decide what it wants be.


There's no such thing as an older or newer language. Their study should be interpreted under a dialetical aspect instead of something of means and ends, for they evolve and change as time passes. Basque evolved from proto-basque who in turn came from pre-proto-basque and so on. Every language spoken on Europe has a background as rich, if not much richer - since they were subject to the contact with way more cultures - than Basque. 


Ok, fair enough. Perhaps the 'most unchanged' I guess. But its a reasonable argument.

 

Like I said above, I prefer to focus on the present though, despite my brief moment of pride :p



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.

DieAppleDie on 26 November 2012

LOL Troll so youre really basque then?
Eta ni denbora guzti hau zu Amerikar zantarra zinela ustetan, ze txikia da mundua



Kynes on 26 November 2012
haxxiy said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
To be honest if we (Basques) ever gain independence I'd prefer if we wouldn't join the EU. I think we'd be better off with real independence, our own currency, etc. like Switzerland or Norway.

I also want to say it's sad that the oldest nation, with the oldest language alive in Europe is not allowed to decide what it wants be.


There's no such thing as an older or newer language. Their study should be interpreted under a dialetical aspect instead of something of means and ends, for they evolve and change as time passes. Basque evolved from proto-basque who in turn came from pre-proto-basque and so on. Every language spoken on Europe has a background as rich, if not much richer - since they were subject to the contact with way more cultures - than Basque. 


I want to add something, the Basque language that is taught in schools is a laboratory language. There were several very different dialects, and they decided to normalize the language in the Euskara Batua (literally unified basque language) that is very different to the dialects. It's funny when sometimes they "create" new words, taking words from other languages and adding a suffix to sound basque.



Kynes on 26 November 2012
Troll_Whisperer said:

 

haxxiy said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
To be honest if we (Basques) ever gain independence I'd prefer if we wouldn't join the EU. I think we'd be better off with real independence, our own currency, etc. like Switzerland or Norway.

I also want to say it's sad that the oldest nation, with the oldest language alive in Europe is not allowed to decide what it wants be.


There's no such thing as an older or newer language. Their study should be interpreted under a dialetical aspect instead of something of means and ends, for they evolve and change as time passes. Basque evolved from proto-basque who in turn came from pre-proto-basque and so on. Every language spoken on Europe has a background as rich, if not much richer - since they were subject to the contact with way more cultures - than Basque. 


Ok, fair enough. Perhaps the 'most unchanged' I guess. But its a reasonable argument.

 

Like I said above, I prefer to focus on the present though, despite my brief moment of pride :p

Are you talking of the Euskara Batua? rofl. When I see words as ekipajeak I see millenniums of evolution in a language.



Troll_Whisperer on 26 November 2012
Kynes said:
Troll_Whisperer said:

 

haxxiy said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
To be honest if we (Basques) ever gain independence I'd prefer if we wouldn't join the EU. I think we'd be better off with real independence, our own currency, etc. like Switzerland or Norway.

I also want to say it's sad that the oldest nation, with the oldest language alive in Europe is not allowed to decide what it wants be.


There's no such thing as an older or newer language. Their study should be interpreted under a dialetical aspect instead of something of means and ends, for they evolve and change as time passes. Basque evolved from proto-basque who in turn came from pre-proto-basque and so on. Every language spoken on Europe has a background as rich, if not much richer - since they were subject to the contact with way more cultures - than Basque. 


Ok, fair enough. Perhaps the 'most unchanged' I guess. But its a reasonable argument.

 

Like I said above, I prefer to focus on the present though, despite my brief moment of pride :p

Are you talking of the Euskara Batua? rofl.

Not necessarily.

Seeing as you're not adressing the other things I said I'm gonna assume you haven't got many arguments.

Not gonna argue with you further.



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.