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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - My Pet Project: An Alternate Nintendo History

GameCube could've stolen a lot of support from the PS2, the problem was it launched too late.

By the time the GCN came out, the PS2 was already clear like 20 million worldwide, thus rendering the fact that it was easier to program for a moot point for most devs.

If Nintendo had moved up their hardware time table by a year (GameCube hardware WAS ready for 2000, the games were not) and been better prepared, I think they could've carved out at a minimum a very solid no.2 and probably prevent the XBox from gaining much marketshare at all.

If they could've launched in November 2000 with Zelda: Majora's Mask, Perfect Dark, Madden NFL 2001,  maybe like a Dead Or Alive 2 or something, along with some multi-plats, I think they would've done quite well.



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JoeTheBro said:
I think this would have been suicide for Nintendo. The gamecube was already more powerful than the PS2 and XBOX so why would making it even more powerful and expensive increase sales? Also why do you think more exclusive games would become multiplat? I think that has to do more with Nintendo's interactions with 3rd parties. I liked the gamecube, hardware wasn't the problem.


The GameCube was somewhere between the PS2 and Xbox in terms of strength, but to my knowledge, there was one factor that held back a lot of 3rd party support: disc size. The GameCube's itty bitty discs could only hold about 1.4 GB, compared to the PS2's 4.7. A lot of games simply couldn't be squeezed onto the GameCube. GTA: San Andreas was 2.56 GB. Final Fantasy XII was 3.26. Dragon Quest 8 was 3.89 GB. Kingdom Hearts 2 was around 3.67.

A lot of 3rd parties did make games for the GameCube anyway. Hence, Prince of Persia, Resident Evil 4, sports games, etc. So disc size was probably the main issue. Besides, console exclusivity was dying even back then. Hence, Resident Evil 4's migration to the PS2 and Grand Theft Auto's to the Xbox. Is it unreasonable to assume that at least a few more developers would make easy ports to a more powerful system?

As for why the "Dolphin" is so powerful, I just wanted to keep it as similar to the Wii as possible for the sake of the experiment. Honestly, if I felt as if Nintendo could have also included the 512 MB of internal memory and motion controls for under $600 back then, I would have included that too.



Love and tolerate.

GameCube was better hardware than the PS2, RE4 shows that.

Nintendo's insistence on going for a super low price of $199.99 did them no good though.

They should've bumped the main RAM to maybe 48MB 1T-SRAM (to make it definitively better than the PS2), dumped the mini-DVD concept (supported optional DVD playback) and launched a year earlier.

This would've resulted in a more expensive machine, but still $299.99 I think would've be more than doable.

I'd have canned Perfect Dark, Zelda: Majora's Mask, Sin & Punishment, and Conker's Bad Fur Day for the N64 and retool these games for the GCN launch window (Perfect Dark barely ran on the N64 anyway). I'd also nix Star Wars: Battle for Naboo from the N64 entirely and get Factor 5 started on GCN development earlier.

Paper Mario, Banjo-Tooie, Mickey's Speedway USA, Ridge Racer 64, Kirby 64, Pokemon Stadium 1/2, Mario Party 2, etc. can stay on the N64. I'd probably hire some extra staff to make a few N64 games to make sure it wasn't abandoned entirely (Kid Icaurs 64, why not).



This thread strangely reminds me of Archimedies123's "What If Nintendo Was a Failure?" vids... XD
Also brainteasing stuffs! ;)



 And proud member of the Mega Mario Movement!

Here's my guess for sales numbers by year:

In 2001, the Dolphin is launched only in Japan and America, in late November. Due to a combination of high price and supply constraints, only about half a million units are sold during that holiday season. Nintendo gets really worried by these low sales too; hence, a $50 price cut in May.

Fortunately, the Dolphin picks itself up in 2002, selling better as Super Smash Bros Melee spreads through word of mouth and people get Dolphins to play Super Mario Sunshine and Metroid Prime. However, only about 3 million units are sold that year, as the price is still too high for most.

The turning point is in 2003, ironically around the time the GameCube began to falter in OTL. A new Zelda game is a big deal, and is a system seller for many people, but the game-changer is the eShop. It, combined with another price drop in the first half of 2003, makes the Dolphin seem like a surprisingly good deal. Think about how people buy $500 iPads to play $1 games. In this scenario, there are actually two killer apps: Animal Crossing, which at a mere 17 MB could have been sold digitally, and Pokemon Battles, essentially a tech demo for the Game Boy Player that let people battle their Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire games online. These two games are much bigger deals than eShop or WiiWare games in OTL. Meanwhile, the release of Mario Kart: Double Dash at the end of the year essentially completes the Dolphin's library, and gives more casual gamers an excuse to buy Dolphins. Overall, a bit under 4 million units are sold in 2003.

2004 is the first year that the Dolphin outsells the GameCube, for a number of reasons. First, the Dolphin finally goes down to a mass-market price, $250. Second, games like Melee and Double Dash, which were already released, reach critical mass. Third, the Dolphin's at least mediocre following in Japan, combined with the ease of porting over PS2 games, makes it the home to games like Dragon Quest 8 and Metal Gear Solid 3. Nintendo's mended relationship with Square Enix and always positive one with Kojima help that. Fourth, a lot of good exclusive games, from Paper Mario to Pikmin 2 to Metroid Prime 2, are released.

2005 was the year when the GameCube fell off a cliff. The Dolphin, however, continues to sell well. Indeed, about 5 million units are sold a year from 2004 to 2006. In 2005, sales are kept up by new models, cheaper prices, and better 3rd party support than in OTL. Resident Evil 4 is something of a killer app to many hardcore gamers, especially since the eventual PS2 port is of inferior quality. Around the end of the year, the eShop also picked up more steam, as services like Xbox Live Arcade allow for developers to make downloadable games for more platforms.

2006 is the beginning of the end for the Dolphin, but at least it wasn't the abrupt end the GameCube had. Much like how the PS2 kept on selling to a wider audience after the PS3 and 360 came out, the increasingly inexpensive Dolphin kept on finding new ways to sell old standbys like Super Smash Bros Melee and Mario Kart: Double Dash to new audiences. New colors, bundles, and models are pumped out. Meanwhile, the continuous success of the PS2 combined with the Dolphin's survival gives developers, and thus consumers, a viable alternative to entering the HD age.

2007 is the Dolphin's last great year. The PS2's replacement with the PS3 cuts back on the number of multiplatform games it receives, and the Dolphin starts showing its age compared to games like Bioshock and Halo 3. Still, a few major games are still released for it. Examples include Super Paper Mario, which was originally intended for the GameCube in OTL, Metroid Prime 3, thus making the Prime series fit on a single platform, and, surprisingly, Guitar Hero 3, which rocked virtually every console of 2007. 4 million consoles might be sold this year.

The Dolphin continues to be in production up through early 2010. In 2009, the price is cut to $100, making it a budget system. Sports, Lego, Licensed, and various multiplatform games are released for it. Sales are cut in half or so a couple of years in a row.

In total, the Dolphin sells around 30 million units, of which half were sold from 2004 to 2006.



Love and tolerate.

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The Dolphin's price: How to figure it Out

This was hard to do. Seriously, how do you determine how much a 2006 system would have cost in 2001. The answer: you don't. But you do make a few reasonable guesses.

For instance, let's take a look at the Wii. In 2006, it was launched with a fancy controller and a game. A standard controller, with a wire connection to the console and no special features, costs as little as $20, compared to the $60 a Wiimote/nunchuck combo will cost. Then you have the game, which usually costs $50 by itself. Combined, that's potentially $90 Nintendo could have cut off the price by selling the Wii with an old GameCube controller and no game. This insinuates that the value of the console itself was around $150 in 2006. This is very rough, but is an indicator.

Next, we compare this $150 system to the cost of other consoles at the time. The PS2 was $130. The GameCube was $100. The PS2 was 2.3 times that price in November 2001, and the GameCube 2 times. $150 times 2 is $300, and times 2.3 is about 350. So logically, the Wii hardware would have cost about $300 to $350 in 2001, right?

Wrong! You're forgetting the cost of memory. That's right, Sony's old Vita trick is back. And memory was expensive back then. 256 MB could cost about $50 in 2001, a few times more than just a few years later. Even a 8 MB memory card could cost $20. Adding them to the system's cost would make the Dolphin cost from $320 to a whopping $400. And considering how Nintendo hates to make a loss on their systems... Besides, the Wii, and thus the Dolphin, is significantly more powerful than the Xbox, which launched at $300. A notably higher price is reasonable.

"But Salnax, who the hell would release a game console for $400 in 2001?"

Adjusted for inflation, it's still cheaper than the PS3 was in 2006, even for the cheaper models. And according to my little history, the Dolphin's life trajectory is essentially a scaled down version of the PS3's, taking years to get into its stride, and with the help of many price cuts.

Anyhow, that's just some of the thinking I did.



Love and tolerate.

Blimey, the dophin would've had almost the same path as the PS3... ~_^



 And proud member of the Mega Mario Movement!
TripleMMM said:
Blimey, the dophin would've had almost the same path as the PS3... ~_^


I based the Dolphin's path on the PS3 and 360 combined, since its position in history would be similar.



Love and tolerate.

IGN's top 25 GameCube games of all Time!

1 Metroid Prime
2 Resident Evil 4
3 Super Smash Bros. Melee
4 The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
5 Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
6 Pikmin 2
7 F-Zero GX
8 Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
9 Super Mario Sunshine
10 Wave Race: Blue Storm
11 Animal Crossing
12 Beyond Good & Evil
13 Resident Evil
14 Soulcalibur 2
15 Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
16 Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
17 Viewtiful Joe
18 Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader
19 Timesplitters 2
20 Killer 7
21 Super Monkey Ball 2
22 Battalion Wars
23 Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean
24 Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
25 Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes


And now, for their Top 25 Dolphin Games!
1 Metroid Prime
2 Resident Evil 4
3 Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
4 Super Smash Bros. Melee
5 The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
6 The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
7 Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
8 F-Zero GX
9 Okami
10 Pikmin 2
11 Burnout 3
12 Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
13 Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
14 Super Mario Sunshine
15 Super Paper Mario
16 Wave Race: Blue Storm
17 Beyond Good & Evil
18 Soulcalibur 2
19 Resident Evil
20 Mercenaries
21 Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
22 Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
23 Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King
24 Viewtiful Joe
25 Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock

Plus, a special list for their top 10 eShop games on the Dolphin!

1 Animal Crossing
2 Mother 3
3 Pokemon Battles
4 Tetris
5 Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
6 Alien Hominid
7 Peggle
8 Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
9 Bomberman Party
10 Dr. Mario Deluxe



Love and tolerate.

Not to nitpick, but I don't know many people who would compare Metroid Prime to Halo in a negative fashion.

Probably because they intuitively know what I'd do to them if they did...



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