By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - You Don't Necessarily Owe God Anything

A widely established part of practicing the Abrahamic religions revolves appreciation of not only what you have, but also what you have been given. You are often, if not always, told something along the lines of, "God gave you life and free will. And so you have every reason to be thankful."

On the surface this sounds perfectly reasonable: If it wasn't for God you would not be alive, you would not be able to enjoy life and if he had acted differently you may not even have had a free will at this point. For this reason you should never disrepect God in any sort of way. You owe him everything you have.

Personally, I wouldn't say that we owe him everything though. Even if some believers may say otherwise. I say that he merely gave us the tools: The Earth, life and a free will. Then we and everyone else on this planet used these tools to create our current situation. We owe him the tools, not our own creations such as our children, all the things that we buy and the result (happiness, sadness, etc) of every other action that we make. He made it possible, we made it happen. Thus, while God did create life, you should still go thank your parents for creating you, while solely thanking God for making it possible.

So, at this point we owe God the sheer possibility of making everything that we have possible, and it makes absolute sense to be thankful for that possibility.

...if you have anything to be thankful about, that is. I mean, millions of people have been born only to live through a miserable life. They may have died alone, lived on the streets, were forced to become prostitutes, commited suicide because of all of their misery and so on. Millions (if not billions) of people lived/lives through complete shit despite using their "blessed" free will only for good throughout their lives. They were never rewarded during their lifetimes, or at least not in a notable manner, and always thought deep inside that a quick route away from life would be better than living through the same shit for another 40 years.

And what is God's response to this? APPRECIATE LIFE! Life is a gift! Commiting suicide is a sin! You owe me everything you have! Don't disrespect me by taking your own life, accept the fact that you can't do anything about your situation and start appreciating life! USE MY GIFT! You don't want to go to hell, do you?

Now, at this point I can see one scenario in which case people still would side with God, namely the scenario where God put actual effort into making your life possible. If God actually went through blood, sweat and tears to make your life possible, then maybe it would make sense to show some respect in return. But the truth is that he didn't. God is almighty, remember? We are not the result of a thinking person working hard to achieve something, we are the result of an almighty being committing a random act which required no efforts whatsoever. Sure, the Bible says that he "rested" on the seventh day, but given how that would prove that he is not "fully" almighty I guess even strong believers would agree that that is complete bullshit, while all non-believers (well, and some believers) simply add this to the pile of contradictions found in the Holy Bible.

Thus, the only reason left for these people to love and worship God should be their desire to enter heaven, not out of appreciation for what they have. They have every right to complain about their situation, but should refrain from doing so in an act of selfishness.....

 

In conclusion: A person who lives through nothing but shit despite great efforts owes God nothing but shit. And God should not expect these people to appreciate the lives that they have been given. They could and should complain about God being unfair, but probably won't since they fear going to hell.

 

I'm not saying that miserable people finding comfort through God is a bad thing. All I'm saying is that God is unjust. What do you say?



Around the Network

Applying logic to religion is like applying real world physics to Hollywood action movies, or real world medicine to Call of Duty's health system, it just doesn't work.



I'm telling God on you. You're in trouble now, buddy.



Funny how in first part you say we should thank God making everything but stil thank our parents/society on for quality and the tools of our lives, and then in the second part you blame God for some people having shitty ives. I thought parents and society was responsible for that and God was only there to make his existance possible??? So why blame God when someone has a bad life, but you say we should thank parents and society when we have a good one? lol

The first part of your post is completly correct. God was here to make everything possible, create (or design, guide, whatever) fabric of existance (within our world) and give you life. Everything what happens after conception, is human's responsibility. We have full controll and free will over this world, and if humans create circumstances under which this individual has a bad life ( become a prostitiue, be poor or starving) is entirely the fault of humanity and its society. There's more than enough money and food in this world, to feed and educate every person, but the human society is like that, so that only certain people get those benifits. Again, humans, not God. We have the power to stop prostitiution, crime and poverty, but we choose not to. Its us and our soceity that makes the quality of our lives not God. And im pretty damn sure that even those poor, sick, starving prostitiutes would rather be alive than dead, so they have to thank God for that (most of them at least).

For a guy that doesnt believe in God, you sure spen A LOT of time thinking about him and trying to find reasons why he is wrong or doesnt exist. It screams insecurity for me, but if you really wanna play philisophers, try to look at things little more objectivly, instead of just looking for stuff that would support your belief.



Player1x3 said:

Funny how in first part you say we should thank God making everything but stil thank our parents/society on for quality and the tools of our lives, and then in the second part you blame God for some people having shitty ives. I thought parents and society was responsible for that and God was only there to make his existance possible??? So why blame God when someone has a bad life, but you say we should thank parents and society when we have a good one? lol

The first part of your post is completly correct. God was here to make everything possible, create (or design, guide, whatever) fabric of existance (within our world) and give you life. Everything what happens after conception, is human's responsibility. We have full controll and free will over this world, and if humans create circumstances under which this individual has a bad life ( become a prostitiue, be poor or starving) is entirely the fault of humanity and its society. There's more than enough money and food in this world, to feed and educate every person, but the human society is like that, so that only certain people get those benifits. Again, humans, not God. We have the power to stop prostitiution, crime and poverty, but we choose not to. Its us and our soceity that makes the quality of our lives not God. And im pretty damn sure that even those poor, sick, starving prostitiutes would rather be alive than dead, so they have to thank God for that (most of them at least).

For a guy that doesnt believe in God, you sure spen A LOT of time thinking about him and trying to find reasons why he is wrong or doesnt exist. It screams insecurity for me, but if you really wanna play philisophers, try to look at things little more objectivly, instead of just looking for stuff that would support your belief.


It's not about blaming God for making them have a shitty life, it's about God not helping them getting a better life while also saying that they must appreciate the shit that they live in. They can't use their free will to fix their situation, but they are forced to appreciate it.

I can't name a single reason why they should thank God for anything, can you?



Around the Network

@OP, you should read other scriptures too other than Bible. Quran says, Allah (God) wanted to create human beings on earth. He made one, the best of his creation. He gave him free will. He gave him commands of what is right and what is wrong.

Then he said, 'I have not created human except to worship me'. Then he said in the Quran, 'We will certainly test you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and fruits (earnings)'.

Then he said in another verse in the Quran, 'Do you think We created you for nothing, and that you will not return to Us?'

So, this world is a test-field for human beings. We are given free will and will be tested by Allah. The person who succeeds in the test by abiding by the guidelines given in the Quran will succeed in the life hereafter which has no end.

It is like you sit for exam and pass. It's your choice whether you read and have good result or you just don't care.



One other thing about poor or miserable life: do you think everyone on earth should have been created on the same status? Who would do the janitor's work then? Who would mop floors or do other low-level jobs?

Ever thought why the world is balanced and not everyone is going to study medicine or law? You see a balance in every department so that people have different status and jobs in life and complete the society.

I would suggest, read the Quran for 'reading's sake'. Only few pages may do. You will find your answers, so I believe.



TL;DR
God owe me a billion dollars.
I want to use it to buy 50k PSV weekly to save it.



babuks said:
@OP, you should read other scriptures too other than Bible. Quran says, Allah (God) wanted to create human beings on earth. He made one, the best of his creation. He gave him free will. He gave him commands of what is right and what is wrong.

Then he said, 'I have not created human except to worship me'. Then he said in the Quran, 'We will certainly test you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and fruits (earnings)'.

Then he said in another verse in the Quran, 'Do you think We created you for nothing, and that you will not return to Us?'

So, this world is a test-field for human beings. We are given free will and will be tested by Allah. The person who succeeds in the test by abiding by the guidelines given in the Quran will succeed in the life hereafter which has no end.

It is like you sit for exam and pass. It's your choice whether you read and have good result or you just don't care.


Except some people are given calculators and rubbers, while others are forced to count with their minds and cross out numbers with their pens. The path to completing the test is far easier for some, but the result will still affect everyone's lives forever.

(Not to mention that whether you care or not is affected by your personality, which you most certainly don't have full control over.)

The exam is unjust.



babuks said:
One other thing about poor or miserable life: do you think everyone on earth should have been created on the same status? Who would do the janitor's work then? Who would mop floors or do other low-level jobs?

Ever thought why the world is balanced and not everyone is going to study medicine or law? You see a balance in every department so that people have different status and jobs in life and complete the society.

I would suggest, read the Quran for 'reading's sake'. Only few pages may do. You will find your answers, so I believe.


Why would God create circumstances where janitors are needed to begin with? Why not give everyone equal status, equal personalities and equal wealth, create compelling evidence proving that he exist and then ask whether we are willing to follow his lead or not?

The current system is unfair, and the system presented above is just.