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Forums - General Discussion - You Don't Necessarily Owe God Anything

Not necessarily unjust exam. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said that, rich people will go to hell more than poor people. Because rich people tend to forget God more.

So you may think why I did not born in a rich family so I could get a better life. This is your test. Thank God that he did not put you in a worse position.

I heard a story once. A one-legged man was complaining to God why he did not have two legs like others. Then he saw a man with no legs at all praising God that he gave him the life he leads. So, it's a perspective the way you look into it. Please go through few pages of Quran. I hope your time will not be wasted.



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babuks said:
Not necessarily unjust exam. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said that, rich people will go to hell more than poor people. Because rich people tend to forget God more.

So you may think why I did not born in a rich family so I could get a better life. This is your test. Thank God that he did not put you in a worse position.

I heard a story once. A one-legged man was complaining to God why he did not have two legs like others. Then he saw a man with no legs at all praising God that he gave him the life he leads. So, it's a perspective the way you look into it. Please go through few pages of Quran. I hope your time will not be wasted.


Now we are back to square one. If you are not put in the worst position, that means someone or some other people are put in the worst position. Why should those people thank God?



My philosophy has always been, if there is a god, cool, thanks for creating the universe and stuff, but I'm not going to worship you. Period. Worship is childish and petty, something for an impossibly inflated ego, and I want no part of it.

If you go by the bible, then you believe god is omniscient. If god is omniscient, then he knew mankind would be tempted even before he created us. So, in effect, he knew everything that would happen, and is thus responsible for the good and the bad. If you don't believe god is all-knowing, if you believe in free-will, then god basically threw us out on our own. Either way, we don't really owe god anything more than a tip of the hat for getting the ball rolling.

Personally, if god exists, and the bible is right, then I think it's time humanity stood up, got an apartment, and told god to smeg off. He can find a new game to play with. I find his version of blackmail, the "love me or suffer" crap, to be morally reprehensible and disgusting. I want nothing to do with such an immature being. Maybe he can visit on the holidays, but that's about it.

Odds are, though, that if there is a god, he's nothing like the goofy writings say he is. Those come from immature civilizations and it shows. You can even see god "mature" from the old testament to the new, for example, though it's actually man himself becoming more refined. No, all that religion stuff, that's most likely attempts by humans to give god a personality, one that corresponds to their own idea of authority, and to exploit the idea of god in such a way that those in charge hold as much power as possible.

That's what I hope, anyway, because the god religion tries to shove down our throat is pretty lame. This is the most accurate description of the biblical god that I've ever seen, and an absolute masterpiece of television history:
http://youtu.be/AkJcFGvNgcY


If god is there, which I doubt, then I hope he's just chilling and letting mankind live on our own. If not, if he expects me to worship and praise him while the world rots, then he can burn in his own hell. I'm not loving anyone just because they're holding me hostage. Religion might be the original version of the Stockholm Syndrome, but I'm not falling victim to it.



pokoko said:

My philosophy has always been, if there is a god, cool, thanks for creating the universe and stuff, but I'm not going to worship you. Period. Worship is childish and petty, something for an impossibly inflated ego, and I want no part of it.

If you go by the bible, then you believe god is omniscient. If god is omniscient, then he knew mankind would be tempted even before he created us. So, in effect, he knew everything that would happen, and is thus responsible for the good and the bad. If you don't believe god is all-knowing, if you believe in free-will, then god basically threw us out on our own. Either way, we don't really owe god anything more than a tip of the hat for getting the ball rolling.

Personally, if god exists, and the bible is right, then I think it's time humanity stood up, got an apartment, and told god to smeg off. He can find a new game to play with. I find his version of blackmail, the "love me or suffer" crap, to be morally reprehensible and disgusting. I want nothing to do with such an immature being. Maybe he can visit on the holidays, but that's about it.

Odds are, though, that if there is a god, he's nothing like the goofy writings say he is. Those come from immature civilizations and it shows. You can even see god "mature" from the old testament to the new, for example, though it's actually man himself becoming more refined. No, all that religion stuff, that's most likely attempts by humans to give god a personality, one that corresponds to their own idea of authority, and to exploit the idea of god in such a way that those in charge hold as much power as possible.

That's what I hope, anyway, because the god religion tries to shove down our throat is pretty lame. This is the most accurate description of the biblical god that I've ever seen, and an absolute masterpiece of television history:
http://youtu.be/AkJcFGvNgcY


If god is there, which I doubt, then I hope he's just chilling and letting mankind live on our own. If not, if he expects me to worship and praise him while the world rots, then he can burn in his own hell. I'm not loving anyone just because they're holding me hostage. Religion might be the original version of the Stockholm Syndrome, but I'm not falling victim to it.

This here. 



thanking God for my life is like thanking Santa for my Xmas presents, the easter bunny for my basket, or the tooth fairy for the quarters he left under my pillow, he exists just about as much as they do, life is what you get theres no god involved, if your life sux im sorry for you, but dont think that a fictional character made up by ancient people to keep there people in line will help you, were all screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but at least porn is in HD now so yippy!!!!!!!!



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IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
babuks said:
Not necessarily unjust exam. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said that, rich people will go to hell more than poor people. Because rich people tend to forget God more.

So you may think why I did not born in a rich family so I could get a better life. This is your test. Thank God that he did not put you in a worse position.

I heard a story once. A one-legged man was complaining to God why he did not have two legs like others. Then he saw a man with no legs at all praising God that he gave him the life he leads. So, it's a perspective the way you look into it. Please go through few pages of Quran. I hope your time will not be wasted.


Now we are back to square one. If you are not put in the worst position, that means someone or some other people are put in the worst position. Why should those people thank God?


As I said, the life given by the God is to be thanked, the free will given by God is to be thanked. This is a test. If you believe the 60-70 years life is the end of this enormous creation of the heavens and earth, you will be mistaking. God is testing us and telling us that we should worship him. This life is temporary and the life after this is for forever. 

When you make a machine, you make a manual for it. It is written there how it should be operated, what should not be done with it etc etc. Likewise, God created this complex creation, the human being, and given the commands through prophets in every age like Noah, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad peace be upon them all. They brought the manual for human being as to how the life is to be led. 

Now it's up to you whether you want to go by the manual or not. 



I think you're missing the point. When they say that life is a gift to be appreciated, they also imply that it is wonderful and necessarily worth living for. For someone to have a genuinely miserable life is just an oxymoron with this logic and these "miserable" people should really learn to appreciate what they've got more.
For example, while it's always morally awkward to deal with people who scarcely have enough to eat, if you were to take one of those annoying emo teenagers who commits suicide because his favorite band stopped playing or something silly like that, you'd agree that their misery is their own fault, right? And that they should appreciate what they do have.
With this worldview, you're just extending that to everyone who claims to be miserable, including the chronically poor, saying that a lack of material wealth should not stop them from appreciating the gift of life and that they still ought to thank God that they at least got to live.



 

“These are my principles; if you don’t like them, I have others.” – Groucho Marx

Immortal said:
I think you're missing the point. When they say that life is a gift to be appreciated, they also imply that it is wonderful and necessarily worth living for. For someone to have a genuinely miserable life is just an oxymoron with this logic and these "miserable" people should really learn to appreciate what they've got more.
For example, while it's always morally awkward to deal with people who scarcely have enough to eat, if you were to take one of those annoying emo teenagers who commits suicide because his favorite band stopped playing or something silly like that, you'd agree that their misery is their own fault, right? And that they should appreciate what they do have.
With this worldview, you're just extending that to everyone who claims to be miserable, including the chronically poor, saying that a lack of material wealth should not stop them from appreciating the gift of life and that they still ought to thank God that they at least got to live.


People generally don't directly choose to be miserable though. If an "emo teenager" becomes miserable because its band stopped playing then it is still just as miserable as any other miserable person. The only difference is that we find the emo kid's reason more silly, and therefore find it harder to sympathize with it.

Still, let's say that the kid could have chosen not to be miserable. In that case I agree that it should appreciate the little things in life more. But what about the person who was born a slave two hundred years ago and never got any notable social contacts, and who's greatest wish was to end all the suffering? Should it learn to accept and appreciate this humiliating situation? Should it thank God for its life that God has made possible?



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:


People generally don't directly choose to be miserable though. If an "emo teenager" becomes miserable because its band stopped playing then it is still just as miserable as any other miserable person. The only difference is that we find the emo kid's reason more silly, and therefore find it harder to sympathize with it.

Still, let's say that the kid could have chosen not to be miserable. In that case I agree that it should appreciate the little things in life more. But what about the person who was born a slave two hundred years ago and never got any notable social contacts, and who's greatest wish was to end all the suffering? Should it learn to accept and appreciate this humiliating situation? Should it thank God for its life that God has made possible?

Don't they? It's arguable that people are completely in control of how they feel in the long term and if they try to be happy, they will. Thinking of life as valuable and wonderful and thanking God for it forms part of trying to be happy, really. If the reason we can't sympathize with the emo teenager is because we find his reason for sadness silly, then we find it easier to blame him for it since he could just try to think about more positive things in life. Same logic extends to poor people who should learn to get on with less material wealth. Even to this slave who, despite working all day, every day, at least gets to live, which, using this logic, is the most important thing of all. Meaning he still has something to be grateful for.



 

“These are my principles; if you don’t like them, I have others.” – Groucho Marx

I stand by the belief that a person should not be mandated to give appreciation, let alone worship, for a 'gift' that they didn't request, especially if that gift is forced upon the person. An all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving god would understand this.