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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Tea Party summed up!!!

Kasz216 on 03 September 2012
JimmyDanger said:
To an outsider - I don't live in your country, but having ample access to Fox News, CNN etc - it seems the vitriol, rhetoric fuelled Republican machine is in full force like never before.

From their anti abortion (no exceptions) platform, to their opposition to government subsidised healthcare (I believe the US is the only developed Western "power" to lack some form of this) - it looks like a campaign fuelled with piss and vinegar, and lacking in compassion, or longterm worldview.

It's interesting to see some passionate debate among those of you who'll be voting this November.

While most of the worlds (developed Western Nations) moderate right wingers basically equate to your Democrats - or centre/moderate left - most developed Western Nations don't really have an equivalent to your far right wing Republican party - except on the fringes of public opinion.

So it's interesting to watch as an outsider/non US citizen.

Please carry on, and disregard any opinion (or assessment of public perception) that I may have presented as irrelevant. Because in the scheme of things - to someone not voting in your presidential elections - it is!


That is totally a myth.  There is plenty of europeon policy that is far right of the US Republican Party.  It's just the dynamics are different, and people tned to focus on the few big conservative issues.  Like healthcare policy.

If you don't believe me... look at the GFC... and how the USA handles that, compaired to how Europe is handling the Europeon Debt Crisis.

In the US it's money money printed everywhere and artificially lowered rates.   While the Europeons have been pushing austerity measures that would make most republicans blush.  Meanwhile, in the US QE3 is expected by the end of the year.  Because we aren't growing enough... let alone europe's lack of fiscal action over actual regression in GDP.

Things like immigration law... a lot of the anti-muislim laws, this stuff would NEVER be passed, and people wouldn't even think to ask for it.



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HappySqurriel on 03 September 2012

http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/tea-partiers-fairly-mainstream-demographics.aspx

 

http://thesocietypages.org/graphicsociology/2011/11/17/occupy-wall-street-demographics/

 

 

While there is evidence that suggest the Occupy Wallstreet group was a bunch of spoiled, rich, white kids there is little evidence to suggest that the Tea Party was a bunch of old white guys.



HappySqurriel on 03 September 2012
Kasz216 said:
JimmyDanger said:
To an outsider - I don't live in your country, but having ample access to Fox News, CNN etc - it seems the vitriol, rhetoric fuelled Republican machine is in full force like never before.

From their anti abortion (no exceptions) platform, to their opposition to government subsidised healthcare (I believe the US is the only developed Western "power" to lack some form of this) - it looks like a campaign fuelled with piss and vinegar, and lacking in compassion, or longterm worldview.

It's interesting to see some passionate debate among those of you who'll be voting this November.

While most of the worlds (developed Western Nations) moderate right wingers basically equate to your Democrats - or centre/moderate left - most developed Western Nations don't really have an equivalent to your far right wing Republican party - except on the fringes of public opinion.

So it's interesting to watch as an outsider/non US citizen.

Please carry on, and disregard any opinion (or assessment of public perception) that I may have presented as irrelevant. Because in the scheme of things - to someone not voting in your presidential elections - it is!


That is totally a myth.  There is plenty of europeon policy that is far right of the US Republican Party.  It's just the dynamics are different, and people tned to focus on the few big conservative issues.  Like healthcare policy.

If you don't believe me... look at the GFC... and how the USA handles that, compaired to how Europe is handling the Europeon Debt Crisis.

In the US it's money money printed everywhere and artificially lowered rates.   While the Europeons have been pushing austerity measures that would make most republicans blush.  Meanwhile, in the US QE3 is expected by the end of the year.  Because we aren't growing enough... let alone europe's lack of fiscal action over actual regression in GDP.

Things like immigration law... a lot of the anti-muislim laws, this stuff would NEVER be passed, and people wouldn't even think to ask for it.


Don't forget Canada ... Most of our political parties are far more fiscally conservative and more socially progressive than American political parties.



killerzX on 03 September 2012
Kasz216 said:
JimmyDanger said:
To an outsider - I don't live in your country, but having ample access to Fox News, CNN etc - it seems the vitriol, rhetoric fuelled Republican machine is in full force like never before.

From their anti abortion (no exceptions) platform, to their opposition to government subsidised healthcare (I believe the US is the only developed Western "power" to lack some form of this) - it looks like a campaign fuelled with piss and vinegar, and lacking in compassion, or longterm worldview.

It's interesting to see some passionate debate among those of you who'll be voting this November.

While most of the worlds (developed Western Nations) moderate right wingers basically equate to your Democrats - or centre/moderate left - most developed Western Nations don't really have an equivalent to your far right wing Republican party - except on the fringes of public opinion.

So it's interesting to watch as an outsider/non US citizen.

Please carry on, and disregard any opinion (or assessment of public perception) that I may have presented as irrelevant. Because in the scheme of things - to someone not voting in your presidential elections - it is!


That is totally a myth.  There is plenty of europeon policy that is far right of the US Republican Party.  It's just the dynamics are different, and people tned to focus on the few big conservative issues.  Like healthcare policy.

If you don't believe me... look at the GFC... and how the USA handles that, compaired to how Europe is handling the Europeon Debt Crisis.

In the US it's money money printed everywhere and artificially lowered rates.   While the Europeons have been pushing austerity measures that would make most republicans blush.  Meanwhile, in the US QE3 is expected by the end of the year.  Because we aren't growing enough... let alone europe's lack of fiscal action over actual regression in GDP.

Things like immigration law... a lot of the anti-muislim laws, this stuff would NEVER be passed, and people wouldn't even think to ask for it.

and to suggest the left in europe are somehow much further left than our democrats is laughable.

you would be hard pressed to find a leftist policy that europe supports that the dems dont.



Mr Khan on 03 September 2012
killerzX said:
Kasz216 said:
JimmyDanger said:
To an outsider - I don't live in your country, but having ample access to Fox News, CNN etc - it seems the vitriol, rhetoric fuelled Republican machine is in full force like never before.

From their anti abortion (no exceptions) platform, to their opposition to government subsidised healthcare (I believe the US is the only developed Western "power" to lack some form of this) - it looks like a campaign fuelled with piss and vinegar, and lacking in compassion, or longterm worldview.

It's interesting to see some passionate debate among those of you who'll be voting this November.

While most of the worlds (developed Western Nations) moderate right wingers basically equate to your Democrats - or centre/moderate left - most developed Western Nations don't really have an equivalent to your far right wing Republican party - except on the fringes of public opinion.

So it's interesting to watch as an outsider/non US citizen.

Please carry on, and disregard any opinion (or assessment of public perception) that I may have presented as irrelevant. Because in the scheme of things - to someone not voting in your presidential elections - it is!


That is totally a myth.  There is plenty of europeon policy that is far right of the US Republican Party.  It's just the dynamics are different, and people tned to focus on the few big conservative issues.  Like healthcare policy.

If you don't believe me... look at the GFC... and how the USA handles that, compaired to how Europe is handling the Europeon Debt Crisis.

In the US it's money money printed everywhere and artificially lowered rates.   While the Europeons have been pushing austerity measures that would make most republicans blush.  Meanwhile, in the US QE3 is expected by the end of the year.  Because we aren't growing enough... let alone europe's lack of fiscal action over actual regression in GDP.

Things like immigration law... a lot of the anti-muislim laws, this stuff would NEVER be passed, and people wouldn't even think to ask for it.

and to suggest the left in europe are somehow much further left than our democrats is laughable.

you would be hard pressed to find a leftist policy that europe supports that the dems dont.

Depends on how you define "the dems." Some democrats, sure (too few, in my book), but most democrats are what Europe would consider centre-right.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Kantor on 03 September 2012
killerzX said:
Kasz216 said:


That is totally a myth.  There is plenty of europeon policy that is far right of the US Republican Party.  It's just the dynamics are different, and people tned to focus on the few big conservative issues.  Like healthcare policy.

If you don't believe me... look at the GFC... and how the USA handles that, compaired to how Europe is handling the Europeon Debt Crisis.

In the US it's money money printed everywhere and artificially lowered rates.   While the Europeons have been pushing austerity measures that would make most republicans blush.  Meanwhile, in the US QE3 is expected by the end of the year.  Because we aren't growing enough... let alone europe's lack of fiscal action over actual regression in GDP.

Things like immigration law... a lot of the anti-muislim laws, this stuff would NEVER be passed, and people wouldn't even think to ask for it.

and to suggest the left in europe are somehow much further left than our democrats is laughable.

you would be hard pressed to find a leftist policy that europe supports that the dems dont.

A 50% financial tax rate.

Genuine universal health care.

Same-sex marriages.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

richardhutnik on 03 September 2012
JimmyDanger said:
To an outsider - I don't live in your country, but having ample access to Fox News, CNN etc - it seems the vitriol, rhetoric fuelled Republican machine is in full force like never before.

From their anti abortion (no exceptions) platform, to their opposition to government subsidised healthcare (I believe the US is the only developed Western "power" to lack some form of this) - it looks like a campaign fuelled with piss and vinegar, and lacking in compassion, or longterm worldview.

It's interesting to see some passionate debate among those of you who'll be voting this November.

While most of the worlds (developed Western Nations) moderate right wingers basically equate to your Democrats - or centre/moderate left - most developed Western Nations don't really have an equivalent to your far right wing Republican party - except on the fringes of public opinion.

So it's interesting to watch as an outsider/non US citizen.

Please carry on, and disregard any opinion (or assessment of public perception) that I may have presented as irrelevant. Because in the scheme of things - to someone not voting in your presidential elections - it is!

There are times I get pretty tired of doing the same political stuff and watching people line up predictably in the same issues.  It makes me wish for more discussion of your avatar and Star Wars coming home, than this stuff.  



killerzX on 03 September 2012
Kantor said:
killerzX said:
Kasz216 said:


That is totally a myth.  There is plenty of europeon policy that is far right of the US Republican Party.  It's just the dynamics are different, and people tned to focus on the few big conservative issues.  Like healthcare policy.

If you don't believe me... look at the GFC... and how the USA handles that, compaired to how Europe is handling the Europeon Debt Crisis.

In the US it's money money printed everywhere and artificially lowered rates.   While the Europeons have been pushing austerity measures that would make most republicans blush.  Meanwhile, in the US QE3 is expected by the end of the year.  Because we aren't growing enough... let alone europe's lack of fiscal action over actual regression in GDP.

Things like immigration law... a lot of the anti-muislim laws, this stuff would NEVER be passed, and people wouldn't even think to ask for it.

and to suggest the left in europe are somehow much further left than our democrats is laughable.

you would be hard pressed to find a leftist policy that europe supports that the dems dont.

A 50% financial tax rate.

Genuine universal health care.

Same-sex marriages.


you dont think the the democratic party supports these things?



HappySqurriel on 03 September 2012
richardhutnik said:

There are times I get pretty tired of doing the same political stuff and watching people line up predictably in the same issues.  It makes me wish for more discussion of your avatar and Star Wars coming home, than this stuff.  


I would argue that the core of the problem is presented in the original post quite clearly ...

A large portion of the problem with political discussions in the modern day is that people aren't willing to listen to the other side of the argument; and would rather resort to a logical fallacy like appeal to ridicule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule) than to gain understanding. Had spaceguy ever bothered to listen to what the Tea Party protests were really about he would have probably agreed with (well over) 2/3 of what they had to say ... and had the Occupy movement ever bothered to form a coherent message I'm sure most people would have probably agreed with 2/3 of what they had to say.

Most people are upset about the same basic things and there are people (knowingly or not) who are driving a wedge between everyone and preventing progress on these issues.



richardhutnik on 03 September 2012
HappySqurriel said:
richardhutnik said:

There are times I get pretty tired of doing the same political stuff and watching people line up predictably in the same issues.  It makes me wish for more discussion of your avatar and Star Wars coming home, than this stuff.  


I would argue that the core of the problem is presented in the original post quite clearly ...

A large portion of the problem with political discussions in the modern day is that people aren't willing to listen to the other side of the argument; and would rather resort to a logical fallacy like appeal to ridicule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule) than to gain understanding. Had spaceguy ever bothered to listen to what the Tea Party protests were really about he would have probably agreed with (well over) 2/3 of what they had to say ... and had the Occupy movement ever bothered to form a coherent message I'm sure most people would have probably agreed with 2/3 of what they had to say.

Most people are upset about the same basic things and there are people (knowingly or not) who are driving a wedge between everyone and preventing progress on these issues.

When you go with a collaborative flash mob model towards any movement, it isn't going to end up getting coherant.  And when you rip away the one method the movement based it's name, Occupy, around (that being occupying parks) and not being able to have the name jump to other activities, you don't get a coherant message.  The total lack of organizing leadership, and coordination, led to it being a mess.  I know this from being involved with it in an area north of NYC and seeing them lose the park.  At that point, what followed what just personal whims, character flaws, and a lot of chaos.  And people got bored.  Across the river, they royally ticked off the mayor of New Paltz, who was elected mayor as Green Party.  Got dissolved into do your own thing and a bunch of drugs.  A bulk of the Fox News criticisms were true.  People didn't think doing the draw the dregs of humanity to make a point, and not having a point, would matter.  I stil havethe horrid memory of one guy who kept joking he was going to get me wired up on drugs, and would on principle always drive through every red light he saw, because I guess the revoltion called for the overturning of traffic laws.

As for the Tea Party, go the other end, have the Koch brothers, and others jump in and heavily sponsor, and then astroturf the thing.  Then pull in the remains of the Ron Paul campaign, and run things with a fairly heavy iron fist, so it can't breathe.

In a nut shell, have similar initial concerns but then not find the balance.