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Forums - Sony Discussion - Discussing PS4 hardware and manufacturing price

If they do as you laid out, the PS4 will do terrible.

Launching at $500+ again is suicide.



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Euphoria14 said:
If they do as you laid out, the PS4 will do terrible.

Launching at $500+ again is suicide.


I agree, its a huge risk to release at 500 bucks, its still 100 bucks cheaper then what PS3 was. Today people are willing to shelve out +500 bucks for smartphones and tablets.



Turkish said:

I just added the number 2 to indicate itll be a newer version, it has nothing to do with my technical knowledge. The 8i is used in supercomputers and blade servers and will be 5 years old by the time PS4 launches. Who says they could not use a revised version of the Cell or 8i with more PPEs and SPEs?

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/23/ibm-powerxcell-8i-processor-said-to-be-last-of-its-kind-but-cel/

IBM Vice President of Deep Computing David Turek has confirmed that the company's current PowerXCell-8i processor will be the last of its kind, and that there will not be a successor with dual PowerPC processors and 32 SPEs as originally planned. Slightly less clear, however, is the future of the Cell program in general, which will apparently live on in "another form" -- to which Turek reportedly added, somewhat vaguely, "the future is hybrid," although we're fairly certain he's not talking about cars.

Interview was 2,5 years ago, development of PS4 was already in full force by then. For sure Sony will do something with the Cell or its remnants, unless AMD offers something better.

 

And exactly what are you talking about standard pc hardware? A HD7870 will not necessarily be called an HD7870, just like the RSX is not called a 7800GT.


there will be no cell2 - why should ibm develop it? and why would sony use it? they give a damn about backwards compatibility. to program it is a mess. no, next time sony will bring on hardware which is easy to develop on, done. and this automatically excludes cell.

second, sure the cell still exists. toshiba uses it in their highly expensive entertainmend hardware. but this has nothing to do with a ps4.

third, *you* talked about cheap ram atm. but looking at console architecture it differs a lot from standard pc architecture (unified ram with xbox, extreme high bandwidths at ps3's architecture). designing a console is not "i pick some of these and some of those, stir it and *kaboom*, another console". especially consoles are highly optimized in one or another way, even single components (especially the gpus).

by now, no one can make good guesses on details on the hardware, except:

cpu: most probably x86 or ibm p7-like

ram: definitely more than ps3 and x360. type of ram totally unclear.

gpu: nvidia OR amd. no other option left, specs are speculations.

storage: who cares anyway.

odd: most probably bluray.

controller: well, i think it will look a lot like a dual-shock.

done.



 

I will post what I have posted in a previous PS4 specs-thread (I've changed it slightly) but this time include my predicted price:

 

Hardware Specifications
Central Processing Unit (CPU) QC @ 3.4ghz (Not CELL)
Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) HD 7850 2gb vram
Memory  4GB min (inc 2gb vram)
Storage Capacity 320gb/500gb 

 

This can run BF3 on Ultra at 1080p + 60fps, considering it's a closed system that'll be well optimized for.
CPU = £75
GPU = £80
RAM = £25
Storage = £25/£50
Other parts = £80
Total manufacturing cost = £285/310
Retail prices:
320GB PS4 =  £299 ($349) 
500GB PS4 =  £349 ($399 note that these are not direct conversions of currency, 'Merica gets things cheaper)
 
A moderately powerful console, definitely a big jump over this gen, sold for a profitable £299/£349. Perfect.
Edit: CPU price has been adjusted

 



walsufnir said:
Turkish said:

I just added the number 2 to indicate itll be a newer version, it has nothing to do with my technical knowledge. The 8i is used in supercomputers and blade servers and will be 5 years old by the time PS4 launches. Who says they could not use a revised version of the Cell or 8i with more PPEs and SPEs?

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/23/ibm-powerxcell-8i-processor-said-to-be-last-of-its-kind-but-cel/

IBM Vice President of Deep Computing David Turek has confirmed that the company's current PowerXCell-8i processor will be the last of its kind, and that there will not be a successor with dual PowerPC processors and 32 SPEs as originally planned. Slightly less clear, however, is the future of the Cell program in general, which will apparently live on in "another form" -- to which Turek reportedly added, somewhat vaguely, "the future is hybrid," although we're fairly certain he's not talking about cars.

Interview was 2,5 years ago, development of PS4 was already in full force by then. For sure Sony will do something with the Cell or its remnants, unless AMD offers something better.

 

And exactly what are you talking about standard pc hardware? A HD7870 will not necessarily be called an HD7870, just like the RSX is not called a 7800GT.


there will be no cell2 - why should ibm develop it? and why would sony use it? they give a damn about backwards compatibility. to program it is a mess. no, next time sony will bring on hardware which is easy to develop on, done. and this automatically excludes cell.

second, sure the cell still exists. toshiba uses it in their highly expensive entertainmend hardware. but this has nothing to do with a ps4.

third, *you* talked about cheap ram atm. but looking at console architecture it differs a lot from standard pc architecture (unified ram with xbox, extreme high bandwidths at ps3's architecture). designing a console is not "i pick some of these and some of those, stir it and *kaboom*, another console". especially consoles are highly optimized in one or another way, even single components (especially the gpus).

by now, no one can make good guesses on details on the hardware, except:

cpu: most probably x86 or ibm p7-like

ram: definitely more than ps3 and x360. type of ram totally unclear.

gpu: nvidia OR amd. no other option left, specs are speculations.

storage: who cares anyway.

odd: most probably bluray.

controller: well, i think it will look a lot like a dual-shock.

done.

I think it'll use some sort of Cell. The libraries and knowledge is there at the moment for the current makeup...its taken time but they are finally there. You've seen what the machine can do now. Going further with Cell should not be a problem for the devs that already developped for the PS3. This means PS4 will be backwards compatible too with PS3 games. A lot of people will be angry if PS4 won't run PS3 games.



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Andrespetmonkey said:

 

I will post what I have posted in a previous PS4 specs-thread (I've changed it slightly) but this time include my predicted price:

 

Hardware Specifications
Central Processing Unit (CPU) QC @ 3.4ghz (Not CELL)
Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) HD 7850 2gb vram
Memory  4GB min (inc 2gb vram)
Storage Capacity 320gb/500gb 

 

This can run BF3 on Ultra at 1080p + 60fps, considering it's a closed system that'll be well optimized for.
CPU = £100
GPU = £80
RAM = £25
Storage = £25/£50
Other parts = £80
Total = £310/£335
Retail prices = 
320GB PS4 = either £299 and Sony take a small loss or £349 and Sony makes a good amount of each unit sold.
500GB PS4 = either £349 or £399, Sony make a profit either way, a large profit on the latter amount.

 


Plausible specs, atleast better than what we heard before E3:

Gaikai will provide PS4 backwards compatibility for PS3 games.

PS4 will have 10GB of XDR2 memory

PS4 will have AMD APU

PS4 will have an HD6600 (meaning it will be less powerful then WiiU)



Turkish said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

 

I will post what I have posted in a previous PS4 specs-thread (I've changed it slightly) but this time include my predicted price:

 

Hardware Specifications
Central Processing Unit (CPU) QC @ 3.4ghz (Not CELL)
Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) HD 7850 2gb vram
Memory  4GB min (inc 2gb vram)
Storage Capacity 320gb/500gb 

 

This can run BF3 on Ultra at 1080p + 60fps, considering it's a closed system that'll be well optimized for.
CPU = £100
GPU = £80
RAM = £25
Storage = £25/£50
Other parts = £80
Total = £310/£335
Retail prices = 
320GB PS4 = either £299 and Sony take a small loss or £349 and Sony makes a good amount of each unit sold.
500GB PS4 = either £349 or £399, Sony make a profit either way, a large profit on the latter amount.

 


Plausible specs, atleast better than what we heard before E3:

Gaikai will provide PS4 backwards compatibility for PS3 games.

PS4 will have 10GB of XDR2 memory

PS4 will have AMD APU

PS4 will have an HD6600 (meaning it will be less powerful then WiiU)

The specs I listed are also very similar to the more recent rumour (post E3), making me even more confident in it. 



I want sony to release the PS4 at 599$ basic model and with extended HDD 699$.
You know why?
First, i want the graphical jump to be as high as possible.
Second, i want to play games for the next 7-8 years on this very same console.

Do a weak and cheap PS4 and the games won't be able to catch up with PC games for longer than 4, 5 years.

It needs to be THE machine on the market. full hd 3d resolution and massive graphx.



must-have-list for platforms i don't own yet:

WiiU: Donkey Kong

XBone: Dead Rising 3, Ryse

Currently, all the rumours point to an AMD APU and AMD GPU with 2-4Gb of RAM. The 7870 GPU would be great but it would require too much power to be truly viable in a console.

Personally, I don't think they'll go the APU route, but they may stick to an AMD CPU:

CPU: 6-8 core AMD CPU (Next gen Bulldozer) @ 3.6 GHz (28nm process)
GPU: Equivalent to an AMD 7850 (28nm process)
I strongly suspect they'll then try to get these into APU form by the 2nd year of release to reduce costs.
RAM: 2Gb is minimum. If devs get their way then 4 Gb.
HDD: 320+Gb 2.5" laptop HDD



kowenicki said:
Turkish said:
kowenicki said:
PlaystaionGamer said:

Price NEEDS to be $399 or LESS.
they may loose a tiny amount on every unit at first but that money will come back with a huge install base.
Release with Uncharted 4, GT6 & Killzone 4
- t2 of them will be MAJOR sellers and Killzone will sell a ton potential being the first FPS. pure profit will be made from all 3 titles.

Release at over $399 would be a huge mistake. The compatition will be cheaper and the brand is already hurt. Sony need the Ps4 to be big. it wont be at $500.

remeber the state Sony is in right now. they cant have the PS4 sell like the PS3. they need PS1/PS2 market Domanance/ Sales

Wow.. you better brace yourself for some major disappointment.  I seriously doubt any of that will happen.

Koni, can you please post your expected manufacturing cost and the parts that will be used on the PS4? I'm curious what you think.


I wont pretend I can even do that... but what I am aware of is that the cell is finish with isnt it?  IBM finished with any further development of it in 2009.

Sony bought Toshibas Cell plant for 600m 2 years ago

http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/22/sony-buys-back-toshibas-cell-plant-for-50-billion-yen-makes-a/

For them to opt for AMD would be strange dontcha think?