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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Wii U to be more powerful then the PS4

Soundwave said:
VGKing said:
Soundwave said:
VGKing said:
Soundwave said:

Honestly I think in the higher end market, Microsoft is going to drive Sony out in the next 5-6 years by creating a better piece of hardware, which in turn will make them the console of choice for "hardcore" players.

Sony can't afford to price match Microsoft anymore, and Microsoft knows this. A couple of years of losses upfront on the 720 and they can bury Sony for good. We're starting to hear some reports that seem to indicate MS is "going for it" at the urging of some developers (probably Epic and some others). So I could see a situation where the 720 has say 4GB of RAM + a beefier GPU versus a Sony Orbis that has 2GB RAM/weaker GPU.

Nintendo will retain a good portion of the lower end/"normal person" (lol) market, but MS will make inroads here too with Kinect.


Highly unlikely. Microsoft loves making profit. Want proof? There hasnt' been an Xbox 360 price cut since like 2008.

An Xbox 360 would easily bee sold at $150 with Microsoft still making decent profit. But why isn't it? Because Microsoft loves making profit. 


That's the 360 model -- to not have a ton of price drops but to absorb losses early on. The price remains static as time goes on, but of course the cost of production drops. The 720 could follow the same model ... Sony is the one that can't afford to repeat the PS3 model. Though in hindsight I think if MS knew Sony was going to shock everyone with the $599 thing, they probably would've started XBox 360 at a little bit more expensive of a price and not taken such a big loss upfront.

$299.99/$399.99 for the level of tech the 360 was bringing to the market (bleeding edge) in 2005 was a ridiculous bargain.

Microsoft can lose money on the 720 early on too, it's not a big deal for them, they likely view the 720 as a 7-8 year investment, so they lose money the first 2-3 years, but make it back in the final 5/6. Sony I don't think can afford to do that any more, Nintendo won't go there either. So it's a competetive advantage MS can use if they want to play that card.

As an entire company MS turns a hefty profit every year. Sony is swimming in debt and taking massive losses from every direction, they can't afford to price/feature match Microsoft any more. Sony has billions and billions of dollars in unpaid debt (so much so that their debt was recently downgraded, which is really, really bad).

If I'm Microsoft I'm looking at the game market and saying "why are we splitting half of our market with Sony? Lets take their share" this generation for sure.


Yes, Microsoft COULD launch a ridiculously over=powered console and price it chepaer than a less-powerful PS4....but they won't.

Microsoft WANTS to make profit. In the first few years they want to take as little a lost as possible.(or even profit from day 1). This is the way companies work. Anyway Sony WILL take a loss on each PS4 for at least hte first year. Their main competitor is the Xbox 720 and they have no intention of playing it safe.

BTW, if Sony were to leave the console business, it would be bad for the entire industry and it would also mean a lot more work for Microsoft.


I think you're confusing what you want with what Microsoft wants. Microsoft would love to rule the game industry.

It would be a nice feather in their cap especially after getting thumped badly by Apple in the media distribution race/tablet/cell phone market etc.

They can tell their stockholders "OK, ok, Apple, Apple, Apple, Google ... but hey look at what we're doing in the game business, look at Kinect, look at our dominance here ...". It's something they can point to especially if Windows Phone never takes off. It's kinda like when you got a report card with one subject that was a D and another was an A ... well you could always kinda assuage your parents by pointing out you're doing great in this one subject and maybe you'll even come around in that other subject.

If I'm Microsoft I bait Sony into fighting the race like this ... it's a race that favors Microsoft. Sony isn't the same company they used to be 10 years ago, their brand (Playstation and Sony in general) has diminished considerably. This is where smart corporations if they have a killer mentality go for the kill.

If I was working at MS I'd also push to secure exclusivity deals on certain key franchises. If Nintendo can take Monster Hunter away from Sony (and I don't for a second believe Nintendo wasn't involved in that), MS should go at Sony on the console side too.

Microsoft loves to pick fights they know they can win. Right now they're in tough with Apple and Google with the smart phone thing, they probably are too late in coming to the market. But Sony? In the game business? I mean if you're Microsoft you gotta be feeling pretty damn confident about that. Any profit the game division makes for Microsoft is just peanuts compared to their other businesses, always has been, always will be. XBOX as a brand is a vanity project for MS, something to get them into the living room first and foremost.


Microsoft can't make Sony drop out of the console business. You're just being a bit of a fanboy here.
Even if the Xbox 720 pulled off PS2-level success, a profitable PS4 could keep Sony in the console wars even it sold at Gamecube levels.(or do you think a PS4 won't sell at all?)



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VGKing said:
Soundwave said:
VGKing said:
Soundwave said:
VGKing said:
Soundwave said:

Honestly I think in the higher end market, Microsoft is going to drive Sony out in the next 5-6 years by creating a better piece of hardware, which in turn will make them the console of choice for "hardcore" players.

Sony can't afford to price match Microsoft anymore, and Microsoft knows this. A couple of years of losses upfront on the 720 and they can bury Sony for good. We're starting to hear some reports that seem to indicate MS is "going for it" at the urging of some developers (probably Epic and some others). So I could see a situation where the 720 has say 4GB of RAM + a beefier GPU versus a Sony Orbis that has 2GB RAM/weaker GPU.

Nintendo will retain a good portion of the lower end/"normal person" (lol) market, but MS will make inroads here too with Kinect.


Highly unlikely. Microsoft loves making profit. Want proof? There hasnt' been an Xbox 360 price cut since like 2008.

An Xbox 360 would easily bee sold at $150 with Microsoft still making decent profit. But why isn't it? Because Microsoft loves making profit. 


That's the 360 model -- to not have a ton of price drops but to absorb losses early on. The price remains static as time goes on, but of course the cost of production drops. The 720 could follow the same model ... Sony is the one that can't afford to repeat the PS3 model. Though in hindsight I think if MS knew Sony was going to shock everyone with the $599 thing, they probably would've started XBox 360 at a little bit more expensive of a price and not taken such a big loss upfront.

$299.99/$399.99 for the level of tech the 360 was bringing to the market (bleeding edge) in 2005 was a ridiculous bargain.

Microsoft can lose money on the 720 early on too, it's not a big deal for them, they likely view the 720 as a 7-8 year investment, so they lose money the first 2-3 years, but make it back in the final 5/6. Sony I don't think can afford to do that any more, Nintendo won't go there either. So it's a competetive advantage MS can use if they want to play that card.

As an entire company MS turns a hefty profit every year. Sony is swimming in debt and taking massive losses from every direction, they can't afford to price/feature match Microsoft any more. Sony has billions and billions of dollars in unpaid debt (so much so that their debt was recently downgraded, which is really, really bad).

If I'm Microsoft I'm looking at the game market and saying "why are we splitting half of our market with Sony? Lets take their share" this generation for sure.


Yes, Microsoft COULD launch a ridiculously over=powered console and price it chepaer than a less-powerful PS4....but they won't.

Microsoft WANTS to make profit. In the first few years they want to take as little a lost as possible.(or even profit from day 1). This is the way companies work. Anyway Sony WILL take a loss on each PS4 for at least hte first year. Their main competitor is the Xbox 720 and they have no intention of playing it safe.

BTW, if Sony were to leave the console business, it would be bad for the entire industry and it would also mean a lot more work for Microsoft.


I think you're confusing what you want with what Microsoft wants. Microsoft would love to rule the game industry.

It would be a nice feather in their cap especially after getting thumped badly by Apple in the media distribution race/tablet/cell phone market etc.

They can tell their stockholders "OK, ok, Apple, Apple, Apple, Google ... but hey look at what we're doing in the game business, look at Kinect, look at our dominance here ...". It's something they can point to especially if Windows Phone never takes off. It's kinda like when you got a report card with one subject that was a D and another was an A ... well you could always kinda assuage your parents by pointing out you're doing great in this one subject and maybe you'll even come around in that other subject.

If I'm Microsoft I bait Sony into fighting the race like this ... it's a race that favors Microsoft. Sony isn't the same company they used to be 10 years ago, their brand (Playstation and Sony in general) has diminished considerably. This is where smart corporations if they have a killer mentality go for the kill.

If I was working at MS I'd also push to secure exclusivity deals on certain key franchises. If Nintendo can take Monster Hunter away from Sony (and I don't for a second believe Nintendo wasn't involved in that), MS should go at Sony on the console side too.

Microsoft loves to pick fights they know they can win. Right now they're in tough with Apple and Google with the smart phone thing, they probably are too late in coming to the market. But Sony? In the game business? I mean if you're Microsoft you gotta be feeling pretty damn confident about that. Any profit the game division makes for Microsoft is just peanuts compared to their other businesses, always has been, always will be. XBOX as a brand is a vanity project for MS, something to get them into the living room first and foremost.


Microsoft can't make Sony drop out of the console business. You're just being a bit of a fanboy here.
Even if the Xbox 720 pulled off PS2-level success, a profitable PS4 could keep Sony in the console wars even it sold at Gamecube levels.(or do you think a PS4 won't sell at all?)


If the PS4 was to sell at GameCube levels, Sony would drop out. The reason Nintendo made a lot of money during those years was because they were selling tons (and I mean tons) of GBA + Pokemon craze was still at a high peak (meaning the movies/merchandising/etc. on top of the game franchise).

Sony has gone from 120 million to 60 million this gen and been toppled in North America pretty convicingly by MS. If I'm MS, sure why wouldn't I be licking me chops and wanting to slash Sony in half again?

I'm not saying that as a fanboy, just from a POV of a Microsoft executive, I'd look at the game industry and I'd look at the sorry state Sony is in right now and I'd say "why are we splitting half the core audience with ... them?". It's a fair question.

If MS can really turn the screws on Sony particularily in the first 2 years of the next console cycle, they could have very easy sailing for the following 5-6 years.



Soundwave said:
VGKing said:
Soundwave said:
VGKing said:
Soundwave said:
VGKing said:
Soundwave said:

Honestly I think in the higher end market, Microsoft is going to drive Sony out in the next 5-6 years by creating a better piece of hardware, which in turn will make them the console of choice for "hardcore" players.

Sony can't afford to price match Microsoft anymore, and Microsoft knows this. A couple of years of losses upfront on the 720 and they can bury Sony for good. We're starting to hear some reports that seem to indicate MS is "going for it" at the urging of some developers (probably Epic and some others). So I could see a situation where the 720 has say 4GB of RAM + a beefier GPU versus a Sony Orbis that has 2GB RAM/weaker GPU.

Nintendo will retain a good portion of the lower end/"normal person" (lol) market, but MS will make inroads here too with Kinect.


Highly unlikely. Microsoft loves making profit. Want proof? There hasnt' been an Xbox 360 price cut since like 2008.

An Xbox 360 would easily bee sold at $150 with Microsoft still making decent profit. But why isn't it? Because Microsoft loves making profit. 


That's the 360 model -- to not have a ton of price drops but to absorb losses early on. The price remains static as time goes on, but of course the cost of production drops. The 720 could follow the same model ... Sony is the one that can't afford to repeat the PS3 model. Though in hindsight I think if MS knew Sony was going to shock everyone with the $599 thing, they probably would've started XBox 360 at a little bit more expensive of a price and not taken such a big loss upfront.

$299.99/$399.99 for the level of tech the 360 was bringing to the market (bleeding edge) in 2005 was a ridiculous bargain.

Microsoft can lose money on the 720 early on too, it's not a big deal for them, they likely view the 720 as a 7-8 year investment, so they lose money the first 2-3 years, but make it back in the final 5/6. Sony I don't think can afford to do that any more, Nintendo won't go there either. So it's a competetive advantage MS can use if they want to play that card.

As an entire company MS turns a hefty profit every year. Sony is swimming in debt and taking massive losses from every direction, they can't afford to price/feature match Microsoft any more. Sony has billions and billions of dollars in unpaid debt (so much so that their debt was recently downgraded, which is really, really bad).

If I'm Microsoft I'm looking at the game market and saying "why are we splitting half of our market with Sony? Lets take their share" this generation for sure.


Yes, Microsoft COULD launch a ridiculously over=powered console and price it chepaer than a less-powerful PS4....but they won't.

Microsoft WANTS to make profit. In the first few years they want to take as little a lost as possible.(or even profit from day 1). This is the way companies work. Anyway Sony WILL take a loss on each PS4 for at least hte first year. Their main competitor is the Xbox 720 and they have no intention of playing it safe.

BTW, if Sony were to leave the console business, it would be bad for the entire industry and it would also mean a lot more work for Microsoft.


I think you're confusing what you want with what Microsoft wants. Microsoft would love to rule the game industry.

It would be a nice feather in their cap especially after getting thumped badly by Apple in the media distribution race/tablet/cell phone market etc.

They can tell their stockholders "OK, ok, Apple, Apple, Apple, Google ... but hey look at what we're doing in the game business, look at Kinect, look at our dominance here ...". It's something they can point to especially if Windows Phone never takes off. It's kinda like when you got a report card with one subject that was a D and another was an A ... well you could always kinda assuage your parents by pointing out you're doing great in this one subject and maybe you'll even come around in that other subject.

If I'm Microsoft I bait Sony into fighting the race like this ... it's a race that favors Microsoft. Sony isn't the same company they used to be 10 years ago, their brand (Playstation and Sony in general) has diminished considerably. This is where smart corporations if they have a killer mentality go for the kill.

If I was working at MS I'd also push to secure exclusivity deals on certain key franchises. If Nintendo can take Monster Hunter away from Sony (and I don't for a second believe Nintendo wasn't involved in that), MS should go at Sony on the console side too.

Microsoft loves to pick fights they know they can win. Right now they're in tough with Apple and Google with the smart phone thing, they probably are too late in coming to the market. But Sony? In the game business? I mean if you're Microsoft you gotta be feeling pretty damn confident about that. Any profit the game division makes for Microsoft is just peanuts compared to their other businesses, always has been, always will be. XBOX as a brand is a vanity project for MS, something to get them into the living room first and foremost.


Microsoft can't make Sony drop out of the console business. You're just being a bit of a fanboy here.
Even if the Xbox 720 pulled off PS2-level success, a profitable PS4 could keep Sony in the console wars even it sold at Gamecube levels.(or do you think a PS4 won't sell at all?)


If the PS4 was to sell at GameCube levels, Sony would drop out. The reason Nintendo made a lot of money during those years was because they were selling tons (and I mean tons) of GBA + Pokemon craze was still at a high peak (meaning the movies/merchandising/etc. on top of the game franchise).

Sony has gone from 120 million to 60 million this gen and been toppled in North America pretty convicingly by MS. If I'm MS, sure why wouldn't I be licking me chops and wanting to slash Sony in half again?

I'm not saying that as a fanboy, just from a POV of a Microsoft executive, I'd look at the game industry and I'd look at the sorry state Sony is in right now and I'd say "why are we splitting half the core audience with ... them?". It's a fair question.

If MS can really turn the screws on Sony particularily in the first 2 years of the next console cycle, they could have very easy sailing for the following 5-6 years.


Sony perspective : Launch PS4 around the same time as 720, price it at 350-399, secure some good launch games (Sony owns most 1st party studios, which have improved quite a lot during this gen) and MS is fucked. I hope you realize Sony and MS are where they are, SOLELY because of Sony's mistakes on launch. Not because MS is some corporate mastermind, but because Sony fucked up. And they can easily correct those mistakes if they're smart.

And NA alone isn't enough to win WW sales. Especially now when gaming market grew enormously  all over the world (mostly thanks to Sony btw)



these threads are getting annoying



Player1x3 said:
Rafux said:
freebs2 said:
Rafux said:
Yep this makes sense, WiiU will be more powerful than a system that will be released a year later.

Actually, the X360 was more powerful than a system released an year later :P

@OP No WiiU won't probably be more powerfull than Ps4 and no a Radeon 400x is not better than a Radeon 700x.


More powerful? I think PS3 and 360 are tied but you do have a good point.


im pretty sure he was talking about the Wii :p

Got it!



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zero129 said:

1. The rumors say its based off the RV770 Only 2 GPU's ise the RV770 GPU thats the 4850 and the 4870. Sure the is also the RV770LE and that unit is based off the 4830, But since the rumors don't state the RV770LE and only state the RV770 we can assume its the 4850 or the 4870 GPU.

2. Nintendo would be able to get them cards very cheap, plus they wouldn't be off the shelf cards they would be custom made for the Wii U and more then likely made to use alot less power.

Now lets say Nintendo goes with the RV770 LE GPU

Actually it goes

RV770XT = Radeon HD 4870

RV770PRO = Radeon HD 4850

RV770LE = Radeon HD 4830

RV770CE = Radeon HD 4730

There is no chip just codenamed RV770, R770 is the architecture and it had 4 variants. Chances are that the chip in the Wii U is not bassed on any specific existing variant but instead a new variant for the low heat/power requirements of a console the size of the Wii U, it could be even weaker than the 4730 for all we know.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zero129 said:

Your right i seemed to of missed that last one, but it still doesn't change my post at all as it only adds one extra card within the range of what it could be.

Now lets compare the specs again using the 4730

Now as you can see the is still no huge difference and the rumored PS4 GPU still doesn't have a big advantage.

Now why i think they would be insane to go with the 4730 instead of one of the 48xx cards.

First if you notice the power consumption, it is more then both the 4850 and the 4830 with no extra benefits. Now i know i said they could cut down the power consumption in a custom card, but wouldn't it be wiser to take a more powerful card such as the 4830 or the 4850 that already have lower power consumption then work with a weaker card?, plus the prices for the 3 cards are pretty much the same.

That's why i am 100% sure if the rumors a true that the Wii U will be using a card in the 48xx range, as it would be insane otherwise.

And to what you said that it "it could be even weaker than the 4730 for all we know.". It could also be more powerful.

But moving on, no matter what way you look at it, judging from the rumored specs the is not going to be a big power difference with the Wii U and the PS4.

But that's only if the rumors hold true, but atm we can only base it on the rumored specs and that's how its looking.


You are forgetting that the Orbis rumours state 2 GPUs not one. 

And the reason they may go for an even "weaker" GPU is that the Wii U is very small and the RV770 is not the most effeciant architecture arround, performance per watt isn't that great, even the 40nm revision the RV740 isn't great it that regard. And the Wii U is a very small console, they are just not going to put a large, hot, power hungry card in a box that small. In fact I don't see them using a card with a TDP of more than 50W TBH, it's 1/3 the size of a 360 slim and the Xenos was 60 watts before the die shrinks and you know the problems they had with heat. There is just no way they can put a RV770 bassed GPU that powerful in a box that small, it is physically impossible without going for a 28nm chip which Nintendo won't do because yeilds would be to low, nintendo always go for a step back from the latest die shrink to maximise yeilds and reliability so it will be a 40nm chip.

Now if they went with a cut down Cape Verde varde variant at 28nm they may be able to get a chip that powerful at a low enough TDP but they are just not going to do that. 



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

PSOne weaker than Sega Saturn? Riiiiight....



zarx said:
zero129 said:

Your right i seemed to of missed that last one, but it still doesn't change my post at all as it only adds one extra card within the range of what it could be.

Now lets compare the specs again using the 4730

Now as you can see the is still no huge difference and the rumored PS4 GPU still doesn't have a big advantage.

Now why i think they would be insane to go with the 4730 instead of one of the 48xx cards.

First if you notice the power consumption, it is more then both the 4850 and the 4830 with no extra benefits. Now i know i said they could cut down the power consumption in a custom card, but wouldn't it be wiser to take a more powerful card such as the 4830 or the 4850 that already have lower power consumption then work with a weaker card?, plus the prices for the 3 cards are pretty much the same.

That's why i am 100% sure if the rumors a true that the Wii U will be using a card in the 48xx range, as it would be insane otherwise.

And to what you said that it "it could be even weaker than the 4730 for all we know.". It could also be more powerful.

But moving on, no matter what way you look at it, judging from the rumored specs the is not going to be a big power difference with the Wii U and the PS4.

But that's only if the rumors hold true, but atm we can only base it on the rumored specs and that's how its looking.


You are forgetting that the Orbis rumours state 2 GPUs not one. 

And the reason they may go for an even "weaker" GPU is that the Wii U is very small and the RV770 is not the most effeciant architecture arround, performance per watt isn't that great, even the 40nm revision the RV740 isn't great it that regard. And the Wii U is a very small console, they are just not going to put a large, hot, power hungry card in a box that small. In fact I don't see them using a card with a TDP of more than 50W TBH, it's 1/3 the size of a 360 slim and the Xenos was 60 watts before the die shrinks and you know the problems they had with heat. There is just no way they can put a RV770 bassed GPU that powerful in a box that small, it is physically impossible without going for a 28nm chip which Nintendo won't do because yeilds would be to low, nintendo always go for a step back from the latest die shrink to maximise yeilds and reliability so it will be a 40nm chip.

Now if they went with a cut down Cape Verde varde variant at 28nm they may be able to get a chip that powerful at a low enough TDP but they are just not going to do that. 


The GPU would have faced significant customization over the past 3 to 4 years, and would be manufactured using a much newer and smaller process, so what we know about the stock PC GPUs may not hold true for the GPU in the Wii U.



Why don't we all just admit that we have no idea how strong the next gen consoles will be as there are not any solid specs for any of them....